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1972 Playboy Saul Alinsky interview (Know Your Enemy!!)
Native Forest Council ^ | Friday, April 9, 2010 | Jim Britell

Posted on 04/09/2010 4:10:02 AM PDT by canuck_conservative

Edited on 04/09/2010 6:40:30 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

ALINSKY: .... I moved over to the table next to the cashier, exchanged a few words with her and then finished my coffee and got up to pay. "Gee, I'm sorry," I said, "I seem to have lost my check." She'd seen that all I had was a cup of coffee, so she just said, "That's OK, that'll be a nickel." So I paid and left with my original nickel check still in my pocket and walked a few blocks to the next cafeteria in the same chain and ordered a big meal for a buck forty-five -- and, believe me, in those days, for a buck forty-five I could have practically bought the [expletive deleted by mod] joint. I ate in a corner far away from the cashier, then switched checks and paid my nickel bill from the other place and left. So my eating troubles were taken care of.

But then I began to see other kids around the campus in the same fix, so I put up a big sign on the bulletin board and invited anybody who was hungry to a meeting. Some of them thought it was all a gag, but I stood on the lectern and explained my system in detail, with the help of a big map of Chicago with all the local branches of the cafeteria marked on it. Social ecology! I split my recruits up into squads according to territory; one team would work the South Side for lunch, another the North Side for dinner, and so on. We got the system down to a science, and for six months all of us were eating free. Then the bastards brought in those serial machines at the door where you pull out a ticket that's only good for that particular cafeteria. That was a low blow. We were the first victims of automation....

Anyway, I found out that criminology was just as removed from actual crime and criminals as sociology was from society, so I decided to make my doctoral dissertation a study of the Al Capone mob -- an inside study.

PLAYBOY: What did Capone have to say about that?

ALINSKY: Well, my reception was pretty chilly at first -- I went over to the old Lexington Hotel, which was the gang's headquarters, and I hung around the lobby and the restaurant. I'd spot one of the mobsters whose picture I'd seen in the papers and go up to him and say, "I'm Saul Alinsky, I'm studying criminology, do you mind if I hang around with you?" And he'd look me over and say, "Get lost, punk." This happened again and again, and I began to feel I'd never get anywhere. Then one night I was sitting in the restaurant and at the next table was Big Ed Stash, a professional assassin who was the Capone mob's top executioner. He was drinking with a bunch of his pals and he was saying, "Hey, you guys, did I ever tell you about the time I picked up that redhead in Detroit?" and he was cut off by a chorus of moans. "My God," one guy said, "do we have to hear that one again?" I saw Big Ed's face fall; mobsters are very sensitive, you know, very thin-skinned. And I reached over and plucked his sleeve. "Mr. Stash," I said, "I'd love to hear that story." His face lit up. "You would, kid?" He slapped me on the shoulder. "Here, pull up a chair. Now, this broad, see . . ." And that's how it started.

Big Ed had an attentive audience and we became buddies. He introduced me to Frank Nitti, known as the Enforcer, Capone's number-two man, and actually in de facto control of the mob because of Al's income-tax rap. Nitti took me under his wing. I called him the Professor and I became his student. Nitti's boys took me everywhere, showed me all the mob's operations, from gin mills and whorehouses and bookie joints to the legitimate businesses they were beginning to take over. Within a few months, I got to know the workings of the Capone mob inside out....

PLAYBOY: Didn't you have any compunction about consorting with -- if not actually assisting -- murderers?

ALINSKY: None at all, since there was nothing I could do to stop them from murdering, practically all of which was done inside the family. I was a nonparticipating observer in their professional activities, although I joined their social life of food, drink and women: Boy, I sure participated in that side of things -- it was heaven. And let me tell you something, I learned a hell of a lot about the uses and abuses of power from the mob, lessons that stood me in good stead later on, when I was organizing.....

We took a photograph, opening his eyes first, then rushed back to the studio to develop it. We carefully retouched it to eliminate all the bullet holes, and then had it hand-tinted. The next morning, I went back to the wake and presented the photograph to Mrs. Massina. "Dumas gave this to me just last week," I said, "and I'd like you to have it." She cried and thanked me, and pretty soon word of the incident spread throughout the gang. "That Alinsky, he's an all-right motherfucker," the kids would say, and from that moment on they began to trust me and I was able to work with them, all because of the photograph. It was an improvised tactic and it worked.

PLAYBOY: It was also pretty cynical and manipulative.

ALINSKY: It was a simple example of good organizing. And what's wrong with it? ....

PLAYBOY: How does a self-styled outside agitator like yourself get accepted in the community he plans to organize?

ALINSKY: The first and most important thing you can do to win this acceptance is to bait the power structure into publicly attacking you. In Back of the Yards, when I was first establishing my credentials, I deliberately maneuvered to provoke criticism. I made outrageous statements to the press, I attacked every civic and business leader I could think of, and I goaded the establishment to strike back .....


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: alinsky; creep; criminal; democrats; liberalfascism; menacetosociety; obama; saulalinsky; socialism; weasel
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Lots of valuable background info here.

Hey, if the guy's an organizational genius, then conservatives should be able to employ the same tactics to our advantage. If it works for the left, why not for us? It's time we beat those clowns at their own game.

1 posted on 04/09/2010 4:10:04 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative
Then the bastards brought in those serial machines at the door where you pull out a ticket that's only good for that particular cafeteria. That was a low blow. We were the first victims of automation.

What a low life piece of crap the liberals selected as a hero. No wonder liberals are pantie waist punks.

2 posted on 04/09/2010 4:12:47 AM PDT by highlander_UW (First we take down the Democrats, then we clean the Augean stable that is the GOP.)
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To: highlander_UW

Just an ordinary, low down, two bit swindler crook. And he got a campus group to buy in to it. Back then.


3 posted on 04/09/2010 4:15:52 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: canuck_conservative

>> ALINSKY: The first and most important thing you can do to win this acceptance is to bait the power structure into publicly attacking you. In Back of the Yards, when I was first establishing my credentials, I deliberately maneuvered to provoke criticism. I made outrageous statements to the press, I attacked every civic and business leader I could think of, and I goaded the establishment to strike back ..... <<

Now you know why the continuous stream of “slip-ups” of Obama’s people referring to him as a Kenyan.


4 posted on 04/09/2010 4:16:06 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Also sounds like they may have inadvertently aided Palin’s rise to power.


5 posted on 04/09/2010 4:20:02 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: canuck_conservative
conservatives should be able to employ the same tactics to our advantage

If you play by the Devil's rule book, don't be surprised when you become just like the Devil.

6 posted on 04/09/2010 4:20:31 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Ronald Reagan: "Peace Through Strength." Barack Obama: "Perpetual War Through Utter Weakness.")
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To: canuck_conservative

We can employ some of their tactics (isolation, ridicule, aggressiveness).

But the difference is that Leftism is based on lies.

When you are trying to take control based on lies, that requires a strategy that ridicules and demonizes Truth and elevates the Lie.

That won’t work for us. Because Conservatism is based on an objective set of moral principles, on historical evidence, on fact, and, above all, on Truth.

So, like good soldiers, we’ll use whatever we can to our advantage. But some of the tricks this scumbag Alinsky employed simply won’t work.


7 posted on 04/09/2010 4:21:20 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Good reply. See my post following yours.


8 posted on 04/09/2010 4:22:01 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: EternalVigilance

True! when the unwritten zeroth rule seems to be “Numb your conscience.”


9 posted on 04/09/2010 4:23:11 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
You probably know that Alinky's "Rules for Radicals" was dedicated to Lucifer.


10 posted on 04/09/2010 4:26:22 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Ronald Reagan: "Peace Through Strength." Barack Obama: "Perpetual War Through Utter Weakness.")
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To: canuck_conservative

bookmark


11 posted on 04/09/2010 4:26:51 AM PDT by ElayneJ
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To: HiTech RedNeck

12 posted on 04/09/2010 4:27:18 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Ronald Reagan: "Peace Through Strength." Barack Obama: "Perpetual War Through Utter Weakness.")
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To: canuck_conservative

Typical thief and liar.


13 posted on 04/09/2010 4:27:21 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: EternalVigilance

the devil you say.


14 posted on 04/09/2010 4:28:49 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: canuck_conservative

This is very interesting. Alinsky was a punk who made it into a philosophy. And speaking of “Know your enemy,!” Playboy magazine has always been a vehicle for everything radical.


15 posted on 04/09/2010 4:32:12 AM PDT by Malesherbes (Sauve qui peut)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
And he got a campus group to buy in to it.

Did he? How many of them walked away from him and went on to lead honest lives? He isn't bragging about that.

No telling how many people marked him down as a lowlife, but don't expect him to tell you about that.

16 posted on 04/09/2010 4:33:03 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus

True, he might be exaggerating (though perhaps this was what motivated the cafeteria chain to switch check systems). Today, you pay as you exit the line with your tray of food and there’s very little room for cheating.


17 posted on 04/09/2010 4:36:23 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: EternalVigilance
So cops studying criminal methods become more criminal-like? When the US military studied the Nazi war tactics it made them more Nazi-like?

C'mon, you have to understand the threat before you can defeat it. So all I'm saying is (a) be aware of what they're using, so we can be ready and blunt it, and (b) some methods may be useful for us.

I'm not advocating any law-breaking or deception, because we don't have to. But I think you'll admit, for a side that has truth with it in so many ways, we haven't made our conservative case effectively enough against the insanity that's been going on lately.


18 posted on 04/09/2010 4:38:44 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: Malesherbes
Alinsky was a punk who made it into a philosophy.

Sound familiar? Sound like anyone we know ...... named Hugh Hefner?

Maybe the Playboy interview was pure affinity at work.

19 posted on 04/09/2010 4:38:50 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: HiTech RedNeck
True, he might be exaggerating ....

He's also lying to some degree in the retelling.

For example, if he told that story exactly as he told it to Playboy, to Ed Stash and his associates, about how he sucked up and got them to talk to him, do you think they might have had a little different take on it?

Different enough to win Alinsky a new position with the Mob .... head down in a barrel of wet cement, maybe?

20 posted on 04/09/2010 4:42:22 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: EternalVigilance

If Alinsky ain’t burnin’ in hell right now just color me shocked.:(


21 posted on 04/09/2010 4:45:45 AM PDT by Dawgreg (Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.)
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To: canuck_conservative

bait the power structure into publicly attacking you.

Ok...we can check that one off the list....

LOL


22 posted on 04/09/2010 4:46:42 AM PDT by Adder (Proudly ignoring Zero since 1-20-09! WTFU!)
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To: canuck_conservative
[Article]

PLAYBOY: It was also pretty cynical and manipulative.

ALINSKY: It was a simple example of good organizing. And what's wrong with it? ....

Notice the counter-challenge by Alinsky? The interviewer already told him "what's wrong with it".

But the interviewer sheers off and changes topics. What odds this wasn't something Alinsky has done 1000 times before?

23 posted on 04/09/2010 4:48:06 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: canuck_conservative
Rush Limbaugh is right and we should take the gloves off!

We can't fight as dirty as the Democrats because we don't appreciate wallowing in slime, but we should do something to fight against those neo Communists.

The end certainly doesn't justify the means, but if we're dealing with opponents who practice that then we should have some means that we would not employ in ordinary decent lives.

Humble Musical Memorial to my deceased cousin

24 posted on 04/09/2010 4:56:27 AM PDT by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: canuck_conservative

Life is rife with low down pond scum like Alinsky and Soros. Being like them is not the goal, I hope.


25 posted on 04/09/2010 5:00:12 AM PDT by Thebaddog (Shakey Jake said, " The hippies will never survive!")
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To: canuck_conservative

We don’t need to employ the same tactics. We have the truth on our side. And truth will out!

What we must continue to do, over and over again, is get the truth out. We must make sure that we educate the public. We tell the truth. We make sure that kids know what’s in the Constitution and the Declaration. We make sure our countrymen understand the “soul” of man — that he is flawed and will easily fall to the dark side.

People love the story of good and evil. They always root for good. They want to be on the “right” side. It’s up to us to make sure they know we are the right, the truthful side.


26 posted on 04/09/2010 5:01:27 AM PDT by MSSC6644 (Defeat Satan. Pray the Rosary)
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To: zot; Interesting Times

Hillary & O’s spiritual leader


27 posted on 04/09/2010 5:06:07 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Dawgreg
If Alinsky ain’t burnin’ in hell right now just color me shocked.:(

,/p> Alinsky's last quote in the interview touched on that location

From the article

ALINSKY:....Let's say that if there is an afterlife, and I have anything to say about it, I will unreservedly choose to go to hell.

PLAYBOY: Why?

ALINSKY: Hell would be heaven for me. All my life I've been with the have-nots. Over here, if you're a have-not, you're short of dough. If you're a have-not in hell, you're short of virtue. Once I get into hell, I'll start organizing the have-nots over there.

PLAYBOY: Why them?

ALINSKY: They're my kind of people.

Saul Alinsky died a few months later, on June 12, 1972.

28 posted on 04/09/2010 5:07:19 AM PDT by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: canuck_conservative

Later read bump.


29 posted on 04/09/2010 5:19:51 AM PDT by IGOTMINE (1911s FOREVER!)
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To: libertarian27

I’m sure his cockiness has since cooled.


30 posted on 04/09/2010 5:23:37 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Ronald Reagan: "Peace Through Strength." Barack Obama: "Perpetual War Through Utter Weakness.")
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To: canuck_conservative

Obviously, the guy was a full-blown psychopath, completely incapable of normal empathy with other people.

I rather doubt his cafeteria story; one would think that the waitresses would be smart enough to know that he was handing them the wrong check.


31 posted on 04/09/2010 5:31:58 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: libertarian27

I hope he goes to heaven with the Mormons like Saddam in South Park.


32 posted on 04/09/2010 5:40:39 AM PDT by YoungHickey (Is it time yet, Claire?)
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To: libertarian27

I am sure he didn’t believe in heaven or hell.

Among the stupidest things people say is that hell would be more interesting, or more sociable, than heaven.

In hell, everyone hates everyone else. There’s no “fun.”


33 posted on 04/09/2010 5:54:55 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: libertarian27

[Saul Alinsky died a few months later, on June 12, 1972]

Anyone interested in how he died? According to records he collapsed and died on the street from heart failure.

Convenient reason . . .

Or did the mob get angry with him?


34 posted on 04/09/2010 6:00:20 AM PDT by LRoggy (Peter's Son's Business)
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To: canuck_conservative

We are discussing tactics here. Good tactics in a given situation are good tactics.


35 posted on 04/09/2010 6:04:34 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine
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To: LRoggy

Here is the link to the start of the Playboy article. Click on the link at the bottom to go to the next page:

http://www.progress.org/2003/alinsky3.htm

If the link is not set would someone else properly code it?


36 posted on 04/09/2010 6:06:33 AM PDT by LRoggy (Peter's Son's Business)
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To: canuck_conservative

Rot in hell Alinsky, and say “Hi” to your hero Lucifer.


37 posted on 04/09/2010 6:10:12 AM PDT by Mr. Jazzy ("I AM JIM THOMPSON and moderates make me PUKE!!!")
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To: canuck_conservative

Alinsky: small-scale grifter

Obama: world-class grifter


38 posted on 04/09/2010 6:19:52 AM PDT by Stosh
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To: canuck_conservative
Thank you for posting it. I wonder how it would read if you replaced Capone's name with Alinsky and Alinsk's name with Obama? Might just open it in Word and give it a try.

It's all there, isn't it? Anyway - thanks for posting a road map to what is happening before our own eyes, in our own country, in our own time.

39 posted on 04/09/2010 6:40:50 AM PDT by arkady_renko
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To: libertarian27

Wonder if he’s so cavalier about those comments now? Some people are just born rotten.....:(


40 posted on 04/09/2010 7:29:11 AM PDT by Dawgreg (Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.)
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To: The Shrew
ALINSKY: The first and most important thing you can do to win this acceptance is to bait the power structure into publicly attacking you.
41 posted on 04/09/2010 7:44:16 AM PDT by Interesting Times (For the truth about "swift boating" see ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: Interesting Times

Now that they have the power, they are trying to bait the citizens to attack them. Don’t fall for it. They are setting traps everywhere and have no problem in using the full force of the fedgov against us.


42 posted on 04/09/2010 7:51:34 AM PDT by Texas resident (Outlaw fisherman)
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To: canuck_conservative

Excellent find.


43 posted on 04/09/2010 7:54:38 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
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To: canuck_conservative

bump


44 posted on 04/09/2010 7:55:37 AM PDT by timestax (Why do LIBERALS pay NO TAXES$$$? eh)
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To: canuck_conservative

BM


45 posted on 04/09/2010 7:57:53 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: canuck_conservative
I'd studied his personality carefully, and I knew I'd get nowhere appealing to him over labor's rights, but I figured I might just be able to use this personal Achilles' heel to our advantage.

Finally I got an audience with Kelly and I started my spiel. "Look, Mayor," I said, "I know I can't deliver you any more votes than you've already got" -- in those days they didn't even bother to count the ballots, they weighed 'em, and every cemetery in town voted; there was a real afterlife in Chicago -- "but I'm going to make a deal with you." Kelly just looked bored; he was probably asking himself why he'd even bothered to see this little pip-squeak radical. "What've you got to deal with, kid?" he asked me. I told him, "Right now you've got a reputation as the number-one enemy of organized labor in the country. But I'll make you a liberal overnight. I'll deliver the national C.I.O. endorsement for you and the public support of every union in Chicago. I've arranged for two of the guys who were wounded in the Memorial Day Massacre to go on the radio and applaud you as a true friend of the workingman. Within forty-eight hours I'll have turned you into a champion of liberalism" -- Kelly still looked bored -- "and that'll make you completely acceptable to F.D.R. on all occasions, social and political."

Suddenly he sat bolt upright in his chair and his eyes bored into mine. "How do I know you can deliver?" he asked. I handed him a slip of paper. "That's the unlisted number of John L. Lewis in Alexandria, Virginia. Call him, tell him I'm here in your office, tell him what I said, and then ask him if I can deliver." Kelly leaned back in his chair and said, "What do you want?" I said, "I want you to put the screws on the meat packers to sign a contract with the union." He said, "It's a deal. You'll get your contract tomorrow." We did, and from that time on victory for Back of the Yards was ensured. And I came out of that fight convinced that the organizational techniques we used in Back of the Yards could be employed successfully anywhere across the nation.

Tea Party folks need to take a long hard look at this tactic... it's a winner.

46 posted on 04/09/2010 8:27:13 AM PDT by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?area=dam&lang=eng)
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To: canuck_conservative
If it works for the left, why not for us?

And that is why Republicans suck.

47 posted on 04/09/2010 8:43:22 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: Lazamataz

Rush needs to talk about this.


48 posted on 04/09/2010 9:13:23 AM PDT by Deo volente (Hope and Change, aka All Government, All the Time)
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To: canuck_conservative

“We were the first victims of automation.... “

Wow. This statement is unbelievable.


49 posted on 04/09/2010 9:28:34 AM PDT by CriticalJ (Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.. But then I repeat myself. MT)
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To: GreyFriar
Hillary & O’s spiritual leader

And also Bill Ayers.

50 posted on 04/09/2010 10:19:24 AM PDT by zot
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