Posted on 04/14/2010 8:14:29 AM PDT by P8riot
You're going to have to understand the NRA was able to pass this. Politicians count the number of phone calls and letters they get and that's what convinces them to vote one way or another. As good as the VCDL might be, they don't have the numbers or for that matter, the dollars.
How much money did the VCDL spend on lobbying?
VCDL did all of the leg work. NRA sent out only a few letters. For the past 14 years, the NRA lobbiest in Richmond spoke out AGAINST repeal of the ban. Now, it passes and NRA hogs the credit where it is NOT appropriate.
As many here know, I have some issues with VCDL but I will give credit where credit is due. VCDL is why this law passed. That the NRA is playing this as their effort and win is disgusting and out of line.
What was the amount the NRA paid for lobbying and what was the amount the VCDL paid?
I thought you guys didn’t like the NRA sending out letters? What do you call “a few”?
Chances are, the bill wouldn’t have passed without the support of the 800 pound gorilla?
Yeah, well that's the kind of thing a business owner should think about. But it should be his decision, not the govt's.
It would have passed 10 years ago except NRA WOULD NOT support it. They consistantly derailed all of the efforts to repeal it. Sorry, the NRA was wrong on this from beginning to end.
It would never had passed ten years ago. Ten years ago, we were still fighting for basic CCW laws and you know it.
So answer the questions. How much effort did your group spend on lobbying as opposed to the NRA?
That said, I am an NRA Life Member since I was 16 (I am 53 now), and I do support them on national issues, but they bear little to no credit for repealing this ban. It is something the VCDL has been hammering away on since it was implemented as a carrot to get "Shall Issue" legislation passed back in 1995, they/we deserve the credit.
Probably true. BUT, if you carry a concealed handgun into an establishment that has a legally valid posted notice that concealed weapons are not allowed there, and you inadvertently expose your weapon so that it is noticed, and you are confronted/challenged by a law enforcement officer, then you will probably be charged with a class 2 misdemeanor of criminal trespass -- which in most states can result in the revocation of your CCW license.
In Virginia, shall issue and the ban passed in 1995. I started lobbying and fighting in 1996. In that time, I gave testimony before the militia and police committee along with about 20 VCDL members (at the time I was not a member and was only a member of VCDL for about 2 years) at every hearing that came up. Out of those times, the NRA had one representative there who spoke against the repeal. Never, did he once speak out favoring our rights. I stopped lobbying Richmond when I left the state in 2006.
As to what VCDL spent, I don’t know. Ask VCDL. While your at it, as the NRA why they were against the ban repeal. Ask them how much they lobbied Mims in order to kill the repeal. Ask them how much they spent to restrict our rights in Virginia.
I don’t know why you have a problem and I really don’t care. I get sick of NRA apologists who won’t see what the NRA is really doing. Did you know the NRA tried at least 3 times to derail the Heller case? Did you know that the NRA lobbied Congress in support of “some” of the restrictive 1968 gun control act? Did you know the NRA threw machine guns under the bus in the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act? Did you know the NRA actively supported the Lautenberg Amendment that restricts your right to own a gun WITHOUT due process?
So before you hammer VCDL and the volunteers that did the work that the NRA is falsely taking credit for, step back and take a good hard look at what the NRA has really done for you. We are going to be fighting for years undoing the damage they have caused.
I don’t know where you were 10 years ago to state we were still fighting for basic CCW, I doubt you put even a 10th of the effort into the gun rights fight that I have, but that doesn’t matter. Shall issue passed in 1995. 15 years ago. 15 years ago, the NRA refused to support even THAT. I’ve been fighting for all of our gun rights for 20 years. I’ve written white papers to congress on the national security effects of gun control. I’ve marched in DC, Richmond and other places, I’ve lobbied Congress and several states legislatures on my own dime and time, I’ve organized mailing blitzes, I’ve confronted anti-gun politicians at every turn, I’ve been spit on, assaulted, cussed out, called very offensive names, and I’ve had my life threatened.
During all of this, the NRA did absolutely nothing except to stand on it’s own pomp and circumstance. We asked the NRA for help fighting the BATFE in several cases including the Olofson case out of Wisconson. The NRA refused to help an innocent man who had a malfuctioning firearm. We asked the NRA for help in fighting for Mr. John Glover when BATFE went after him because of a malfunctioning firearm. The NRA refused. Guess who stepped up to the plate? JPFO. Where was the NRA? Sending out membership renewal letters with “the gun ban is just around the corner” BS.
I’m working with Dick Heller on the Heller II case right now. The NRA tried taking that case over and we wouldn’t let them. Mr. Halbrooke is participating in the case on behalf of the NRA but the NRA still pushes to gain control of it. We’ve seen what they want to do and if they suceed, we will lose the case. I’m sure that they will take credit for this win just like they did in the original Heller case in which THEY HAD NO PART OF.
So please, tell me what the NRA has actually done for gun owners? I haven’t seen anything from them except stumbling blocks.
You still didn’t answer the question. How much did the VCDL spend and how much did the NRA spend in passing this bill?
The NRA didn’t try to stop Heller. They tried to stop Parker which we would have lost at the time.
The NRA didn’t lobby Congress for the 1968 gun law. They were not a lobbying group until the early 1974. There were threatened with the loss of their tax status if they lobbyied.
Your last complaint is the NRA DIDN’T get involved. Make up your mind.
The anti-gun politicians hate the NRA for stopping gun control. I’m sure they don’t even know the name of any other group.
Yes I did, I said go ask them. Throwing money at problems usually doesn’t solve them. We volunteered our time and resources.
Um, yes, NRA DID try to stop Heller. I understand your distinction here and I’ll address it by saying that the NRA spent a bunch of money trying to dig dirt up on Heller to shut the case down. I’d suggest you do some real research on this.
The NRA has been lobbying since the 1930’s. Or haven’t you ever heard of the 1932 Uniform Machine Gun Act that was drafted, promoted and passed in many states in an “effort” to stall passage of what would become the 1934 NFA? I suggest you research it since Virginia is one of two states that still has it on the books. It’s been ruled Unconstitutional in well over a dozen other states including Mass. As for the 1968 GCA, I’d suggest you research the correspondance from Congressional records between the NRA and Mr. Thomas Dodd. You might be very surprised at what you find. While you’re at it, see what Winchester, Remington and Ruger had to say about it...
The NRA gets involved on the wrong side in many issues when they bother to get involved at all.
Obviously, I’m not going to change your mind and frankly, I don’t care. I suggest you research just what the NRA has and hasn’t been involved in for the last 80 years and quit being a blind apologist for them. Either that or maybe you’re on the payroll of the NRA and need to justify a salary or something... Seriously, check out their history. Ask them why haven’t they done anything proactive like challange the Hughes Amendment? Why did they compromise on the 1994 AW ban when a sunset was put in place?
We’re challenging the NFA... why won’t the NRA get involved with that? They’ve been invited. Why didn’t the NRA step up to the plate and stop the BATFE from setting precedence that a malfunctioning firearm can send you to jail in direct conflict with two prior SCOTUS decisions. The NRA was asked multiple times to help David Olofson out and they refused.
But keep supporting the NRA. By all means, they’ve kept us on the edge of our seats since 1932. I’ll tell you what, you get the NRA to proactively go after the NFA and the Hughes Amendment and WIN the cases and I’ll organize a nation wide fund raiser for them. If they get the Hughes Amendment ruled Unconstitutional through SCOTUS, I will eat crow and work to triple their membership, double their coffers, and hell, I’ll even lobby for them for FREE for a year.
Ask the anti gun politicans which group they hate more... NRA or JPFO. You’ll be surprised.
Have a nice day.
You’re wrong on all counts.
The NRA became a lobbying group in 1974 with the OLA. That didn’t work out too well so in 1974 they started the ILA.
And no, it was Parker which we would have lost without Alito and Roberts. What year did Heller start and what year did Alito and Roberts join the Supreme Court?
Now you’re asking for the NRA’s help after getting upset with the way they do things.
I’ll also give you a little tidbit. JPFO is listed as an educational group. They are not a lobbying group and would lose their tax status if they did. I like JPFO but they haven’t done a very good job in convincing jews to vote against the antigunners.
How much money does your group pour into lawsuits outside of Virginia? The Morton Grove gun ban is gone thanks to the NRA and the SAF.
Heller and Parker both were original plaintiffs. I know because I’m working with Mr. Heller now on Heller II and we’ve discussed the history of the original Heller case in detail.
Go read your history. The NRA has been involved in legislation since 1932. They can claim all they want but the NRA wrote and lobbied for the Uniform Machinegun Act and had communication with Thomas Dodd in 1967 and 68 concerning the GCA. They’ve been involved in many other aspects of legislation as well over the decades.
I read the history and the NRA didn’t become a lobbying group until 1974. That is a fact.
The only thing they ever did prior to that was inform their members of legislation. It was a violation of their tax status to do more and during the 1968 debates they were threatened with the loss of their tax status if they did more.
You still have ignored the original question.
Also as far as the history of the NRA, I don’t get that from nonmembers who have a grudge since the 1930’s.
I have not ignored the original question, I told you to go ask the source itself, not me.
The NRA claims to not have been a lobbying organization due to legal reasons but history shows differently... From their own publication no less....
“The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. ... NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts.” —American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22
“The NRA supported the original ‘Dodd Bill’ to amend the Federal Firearms Act in regard to handguns when it was introduced as S.1975 in August, 1963. Among its provisions was the requirement that a purchaser submit a notarized statement to the shipper that he was over 18 and not legally disqualified from possessing a handgun.” (P. 22)
“In January, 1965, with the continued support of the NRA, Senator Dodd introduced an amended version of his first bill, now designated 5.14 and expanded to cover rifles and shotguns as well as handguns.” (P. 22)
And here’s the kicker from testimony by Mr. LaPierre during the 106 Congress hearings...
“We think it’s reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act. ... We think it’s reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government. ... That’s why we support Project Exile — the fierce prosecution of federal gun laws...we think it’s reasonable because it works. ... We only support what works and our list is proud.”
—NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
Congressional Testimony, May 27, 1999
Hearing Before 106th Congress
House of Representatives
Committee On The Judiciary
Subcommittee On Crime
First Session
A simple google search is your friend. I’m done with you here.
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