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New light shed on Kent State killings--Shots fired at Guard, declassified files indicate
The Washington Times ^ | May 4, 2010 | James Rosen

Posted on 05/03/2010 6:27:24 PM PDT by jazusamo

Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired at embattled Ohio National Guardsmen before their killings of four students and woundings of at least nine others on that searing day in May 1970.

As the nation marks the 40th anniversary of the Kent State antiwar protests Tuesday, a review of hundreds of previously unpublished investigative reports sheds a new — and very different — light on the tragic episode.

The upheaval that enveloped the northeastern Ohio campus actually began three days earlier, in downtown Kent. Stirred to action by President Nixon's expansion of U.S. military operations in Cambodia, a roving mob of earnest antiwar activists, hard-core radicals, curious students and others smashed 50 bank and store windows, looted a jewelry store and hurled bricks and bottles at police.

Four officers suffered injuries, and the mayor declared a civil emergency. Only tear gas dispersed the mob.

An exhaustive review later concluded that this unrest on the streets — the worst in Kent's history — was "not an organized riot or a planned protest."

But the FBI's investigation swiftly uncovered reliable evidence that suggested otherwise. Among the strongest was a pre-dawn conversation — never before reported — between two unnamed men overheard inside a campus lounge later that night. Their discussion was witnessed by the girlfriend of a Kent State student and conveyed up the FBI chain of command 15 days later.

"We did it," one man exulted, according to the inquiry. "We got the riot started."

The second man expressed disappointment at being excluded from the riot's planning. "Wait until tomorrow night," the leader replied excitedly. "We just got the word. We're going to burn the ROTC building."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: antiwar; commies; fbi; godsgravesglyphs; guard; hippies; history; kent; kentstate; nixon; protesters; rioters; rotc; shooting; terrorism; vietnam
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1 posted on 05/03/2010 6:27:24 PM PDT by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

Can William Ayers account for his whereabouts on that day?


2 posted on 05/03/2010 6:29:27 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: All
Please bump the Freepathon and donate if you haven’t done so!

3 posted on 05/03/2010 6:29:36 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

A lot of people have believed this for years.

If I recall correctly, there were people present who admitted that they heard shots coming from a direction different from that of the National Guard line.


4 posted on 05/03/2010 6:29:51 PM PDT by Steely Tom (Obama goes on long after the thrill of Obama is gone)
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To: cripplecreek

Good question, along with a few of his brother anarchists.


5 posted on 05/03/2010 6:30:31 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Steely Tom

Correct, there’s no doubt that the Guardsmen were in fear for there lives.


6 posted on 05/03/2010 6:32:06 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo
Another lie the Left has perpetrated for the last two generations.

Liberalism: Illusions built on legends built on lies.

7 posted on 05/03/2010 6:32:09 PM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: jazusamo

An National Guardsman wounded by gunfire???

Any dead students found with a gun in their hand????

I didn’t think so.


8 posted on 05/03/2010 6:33:38 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: jazusamo

Neil Young is a POS, btw


9 posted on 05/03/2010 6:34:08 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: jazusamo

So Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young owe everyone an apology?


10 posted on 05/03/2010 6:34:22 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2312894/posts?page=242)
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To: cripplecreek

Viet Nam was a mistake from beginning to end. What terrible choices were made. Just think - No Viet Nam, No William Ayers, No SDS, No Obama. Things would have been so different.


11 posted on 05/03/2010 6:34:47 PM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: Shooter 2.5

The story DOESN;T say that ANY of the Dead Students were the ones who fired the shot or shots. Geesh.


12 posted on 05/03/2010 6:35:28 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion,,,,,,the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: jazusamo
Ohio lyrics by Neil Young

--------

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

The line, "We're finally on our own" describes the feeling of freedom and independence in college, and the line "Four dead in Ohio" refers to the four slain students at Kent State. The "Tin soldiers" are the National Guard, and many people, including Young, felt that it was President Richard Nixon's fault.

13 posted on 05/03/2010 6:35:40 PM PDT by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served,to keep us free (http://teapartypatriots.org)
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To: Steely Tom

My uncle was an Ohio National Guard troop way back then waiting on stand by to be called up incase things got worse. Luckily he never had to go. Way back then this was what the guard troops said but the left made it into some sort of fable about strom troopers who opened fire on them. My uncle was an 18 yo man who was serving his country after older brother had been in Vietnam. It’s good the truth is finally coming out.


14 posted on 05/03/2010 6:36:28 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: Shooter 2.5
.
The Guard fired over the heads of the anarchists charging them.

The casualties were on high ground opposite the Guard position.

15 posted on 05/03/2010 6:36:34 PM PDT by Touch Not the Cat (Where is the light? Wonder if it's weeping somewhere...)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Where’d you come up with that?


16 posted on 05/03/2010 6:37:05 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo
I have always assumed that the contemporary reports in the MSM were incomplete and biased. The bias prevented total digging into background material.
The bias, due to incipient PC back then (yes, the MSM were on the side of the rioters) painted a totally one-sided picture.

Back then, as I do today, I was of the opinion that anyone, of whatever ethnicity, who masks his face, and incites idiots, with a bullhorn or hurls bricks or other objects capable of serious damage, should be shot on sight.

17 posted on 05/03/2010 6:38:12 PM PDT by Publius6961 (10% of muslims, the killer murdering radicals, are "only" 140,000,000 of 'em)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Your comment is without thought. The gunshots directed at Guardsmen came from a campus building. There are newspaper photos taken on the day of people pointing at where they heard shots coming from.

Go, and think some more.


18 posted on 05/03/2010 6:39:41 PM PDT by jimtorr
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To: jazusamo

I live 6 miles from Kent State. It’s still a lib hell hole.

I warned my two oldest, should they feel the need to protest on my tuition dime, they better hope the National Guard get’s there before I do...


19 posted on 05/03/2010 6:40:30 PM PDT by mom4melody
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To: IronJack

“Liberalism: Illusions built on legends built on lies.”

And little Pol Pots waiting to happen. Every damned one of them.


20 posted on 05/03/2010 6:40:56 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Is it sedition to defy usurpation?)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Ahh so you’re implying that among a riot of thousands of people the lack of a armed dead student means it didn’t happen.


21 posted on 05/03/2010 6:41:03 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: jazusamo
Thus is a set-up by the Zero administration. Next the old Tea party ladies will be firing on the SWAT “authorities”.

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming, Four dead in Ohio.

22 posted on 05/03/2010 6:41:57 PM PDT by RedMDer (Throw them all out in 2010... Forward with Confidence! Forward!)
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To: jazusamo
"Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired at embattled Ohio National Guardsmen before their killings of four students and woundings of at least nine others on that searing day in May 1970."

"Originally thought" by whom? This isn't new information to anyone with an ounce of common sense who was paying attention back then. It isn't much different than "knowing" the things that are "known" today, but there is "no proof", "no evidence", and many things hing on "what the meaning of 'is' is".

23 posted on 05/03/2010 6:43:26 PM PDT by LucyJo
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To: cripplecreek

The MSM will never touch this. The history is written the way they like it and they aren’t going to change it.


24 posted on 05/03/2010 6:44:45 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com << Get your science fiction and fiction test marketed)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 240B; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
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Thanks jazusamo.

My apologies to all for this modern history topic ping.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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25 posted on 05/03/2010 6:45:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Publius6961

Agreed...I remember not only Kent State but the rioting and destruction on other campuses of the era, it was only a matter of time before something like this took place.


26 posted on 05/03/2010 6:45:43 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Steely Tom

“If I recall correctly, there were people present who admitted that they heard shots coming from a direction different from that of the National Guard line.”

I don’t discount the “riots” were orchestrated by communist agitators. Shots fired from the students, I doubt. Read the article about where the FBI “plant” inside the crowd, armed with a snub nose revolver, that had been discharged. When, at whom, and why?


27 posted on 05/03/2010 6:46:34 PM PDT by bitterohiogunclinger (America held hostage - day 393)
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To: GeronL

Kinda like when the story about U-boat commander Ted giving intel to the soviets in Afghanistan broke.


28 posted on 05/03/2010 6:47:29 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: jazusamo

This angers me intensely. What the F was the FBI thinking, keeping these documents sealed all this time?

Guardsmen carried the burden of these shootings for decades. The public by an large thought evil of the guardsmen. Familes thought their kids died needlessly, fired upon by ill prepared guardsmen.

Fact is, those kids may have died needlessly. But there was a rhyme or reason behind it. The guard were fired upon and feared for their lives.

This was FUBARed to the max, and not by the guardsmen either.


29 posted on 05/03/2010 6:47:32 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Be still & kneel before the know-nothing Omnipotent One, Il Douche' Jr., may fleas be upon him.)
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To: LucyJo

“hing” = hinge


30 posted on 05/03/2010 6:47:44 PM PDT by LucyJo
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To: Shooter 2.5
Any National Guardsman wounded by gunfire???

Assuming that one or more rioters *did* fire it matters not whether they *hit* a soldier.

Any dead students found with a gun in their hand????

Again,assuming that one or more shots were fired by rioters,the worst you can say about that is the Guardsmen hit the wrong people...perhaps because of confusion ("the fog of war") or because of poor aim.

31 posted on 05/03/2010 6:48:07 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: Shooter 2.5
An National Guardsman wounded by gunfire???
No.
Anarchists high on the illegal drug-du-jour, and hyped up on adrenalin and their intended mission, are lousy shots.

Any dead students found with a gun in their hand????
Ignorant and retarded is no way to go through life. People who plan riots, arson and mayhem have read their manuals; leave no weapon behind. Weapons and bombs in backpacks have been found in similar riots country-wide.

I didn’t think so.
There. I fixed it for you.

32 posted on 05/03/2010 6:48:38 PM PDT by Publius6961 (10% of muslims, the killer murdering radicals, are "only" 140,000,000 of 'em)
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To: Shooter 2.5

And?


33 posted on 05/03/2010 6:48:45 PM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: mdittmar

Interestingly, I heard a caller on a radio show a week or two ago that stated as fact that Nixon sent troops to Kent State to shoot people during a peaceful demonstration. I really felt like calling in to set a few things straight. The radio show was in Columbia, SC, so I don’t suspect that people had a lot of knowledge about the subject at hand.

I grew up in the Cleveland area. I know one person that was on the Kent Fire Department during the incident. I knew another that was an Ohio National Guardsman and was there. Details from the guardsman were sketchy, but the fireman lent some interesting details.

I also got some details years later from a history professor at Baldwin-Wallace College in Berea, Ohio. He was an instructor at BW during that time frame. During a class on the US involvement in the Vietnam war, he talked about the war protests. He mentioned that there was a group that would travel from school to school, trying to arouse trouble. The group visited BW, trying to start trouble, but (according to him) the football team beat the snot out of them and ran them off.

Anyway, as for the Kent incident, it wasn’t a peaceful demonstration. These punks had burned down the ROTC building and when the fire department showed up to extinguish the fire, they cut the fire hoses. They were wielding rocks and sticks, threatening the guardsmen.

Second, Nixon gave no order to shoot. Ohio Governor Rhodes gave no such order for that matter. Clearly, someone spooked at least one guard and he shot. Once a shot was fired, the rest was automatic.

The unfortunate outcome was that the guards apparently didn’t shoot directly at the trouble makers, but shot over their heads instead, killing people farther back rather than the ones causing the problems in the first place. I mean, if you’re going to go through the trouble of discharging a firearm, aim at the bad guys, not over their heads.

I was in 5th grade when this happened. My older brother was in his first year of college. You can imagine the dinner-table conversations between he and my dad over this incident. Needless to say, Dad (a WW-II vet) and my brother were on opposite sides of the issue.


34 posted on 05/03/2010 6:51:27 PM PDT by meyer
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To: jazusamo

Looking for Winston Smith...looking for Winston Smith...call your office!


35 posted on 05/03/2010 6:53:46 PM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannolis. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Psalm 144; writer33; Lazamataz; PJ-Comix; TXnMA

Our history books are filled with leftist distortions.


36 posted on 05/03/2010 6:54:11 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com << Get your science fiction and fiction test marketed)
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To: jazusamo

I saw a documentary many years ago that stated the National Guard was fired on first. Of course, that little fact has been conveniently omitted over the years.


37 posted on 05/03/2010 6:54:53 PM PDT by ScottinVA (RIP to the country I love...)
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To: Ann Archy

The dead students didn’t have guns.
No Guardsman was wounded by gunfire.

What does that say about this article?


38 posted on 05/03/2010 6:55:19 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA /Patron - TSRA- IDPA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Have you ever been hit in the head by a rock? Kent State was a tragedy, but it had been preceded by days of riots on and off the campus and a bunch of jittery Guardsmen who were harassed and abused by the screaming thousands of rioters. No criminal charges could be filed and the jury absolved the defendants of all charges even in the civil case but were overruled by a liberal “judge” who saw it convenient to issue a very rare Judgment Notwithstanding the Verdict.


39 posted on 05/03/2010 6:56:10 PM PDT by laconic
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To: cripplecreek

Our history books are filled with leftist distortions


40 posted on 05/03/2010 6:56:26 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com << Get your science fiction and fiction test marketed)
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To: nolongerademocrat

Interesting take. But, I think these vermin would have pulled their bullsh*t anyway. They’d have found some other excuse to try to “bring it all down man.”

Vietnam was a convenient excuse.


41 posted on 05/03/2010 6:57:12 PM PDT by wolf24
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To: meyer
"Needless to say, Dad (a WW-II vet) and my brother were on opposite sides of the issue."

Hopefully, your older brother has gained the wisdom of his father through the years. ; )

42 posted on 05/03/2010 6:57:52 PM PDT by LucyJo
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To: DoughtyOne

I couldn’t agree more. The FBI should have come out and made all the investigation known as it took place.

These Guardsmen were crucified and guilty in the eyes of many, and unjustly.

The protesting and rioting in many areas of the country was not put across to the public like it should have been by authorities as unjustified anarchism.


43 posted on 05/03/2010 6:57:53 PM PDT by jazusamo (But there really is no free lunch, except in the world of political rhetoric,.: Thomas Sowell)
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To: chris_bdba
My uncle was an 18 yo man who was serving his country after older brother had been in Vietnam. It’s good the truth is finally coming out.

My thanks to your uncle for serving. I was a teenager at the time so I do remember the incident. The Guard was put into a very bad situation. Nothing good was going to come of it. With SDS, the Weather Underground and other subversive communist movements involved, someone was going to get injured or killed.

Too bad it had to be someone innocent.

44 posted on 05/03/2010 6:58:13 PM PDT by RedMDer (Throw them all out in 2010... Forward with Confidence! Forward!)
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To: mom4melody
I warned my two oldest, should they feel the need to protest on my tuition dime, they better hope the National Guard get’s there before I do...

Bravo!
Ditto here, although not at Ohio State.

Ever wonder what creates independent thinking adults, vs 50-yr-old adolescents?

45 posted on 05/03/2010 6:59:45 PM PDT by Publius6961 (10% of muslims, the killer murdering radicals, are "only" 140,000,000 of 'em)
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To: Gay State Conservative

All other facts aside, it was my opinion then and now that the Guardsmen were poorly trained and led. Riots had been going on for the previous few years and from what I saw there was a command failure.


46 posted on 05/03/2010 7:00:04 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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To: jazusamo
The protesting and rioting in many areas of the country was not put across to the public like it should have been by authorities as unjustified anarchism.

It doesn't appear that much has changed.
47 posted on 05/03/2010 7:00:19 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Shooter 2.5

Days of major rioting, attacks on cops and firefighters are conveniently ignored.

The shots that killed the students were warning shots fired OVER the bad guys heads. Maybe the National Guard didn’t notice that the ground goes higher back there.


48 posted on 05/03/2010 7:00:44 PM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com << Get your science fiction and fiction test marketed)
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To: laconic

My mom said the same thing at the time. I’m from Cleveland.


49 posted on 05/03/2010 7:02:44 PM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: jazusamo
Looks like that Canadian scumbag,Neil Young (& Friends),have egg on their face.Not that that bothers them.
50 posted on 05/03/2010 7:03:15 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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