Skip to comments.Baby Gap: Germany's Birth Rate Hits Historic Low
Posted on 05/23/2010 4:27:15 PM PDT by C19fan
Germany is shrinking and fast. New figures released on May 17 show the birth rate in Europe's biggest economy has plummeted to a historic low, dropping to a level not seen since 1946. As demographers warn of the consequences of not making enough babies to replace and support an ageing population, the latest figures have triggered a bout of national soul-searching and cast a harsh light on Chancellor Angela Merkel's family policies.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
I’m more interested in knowing why Germans do not want families anymore?
I would firstly speculate that it is because both adults have to work to support themselves adequately due to a high taxation rate. It takes time and effort to bear and rear children correctly, so families with one child predominate. Combine that with the propaganda about the environment and there is additional cultural pressure to have one-child families.
Socialism and environmentalism look like the culprits to me. The same situation holds true for other nations where socialism and the enviromental craze have taken root.
Pinging Mark Steyn.
Although with precedent it's expected and with no help from Dubya', you have pegged it with true savvy Paladin2.
Helloooooo!!! "Supporting an aging population" isn't a reason people should be having babies. Human society isn't supposed to be a pyramid scheme. The aged population should have worked hard and made large contributions to their society's physical and intellectual capital, sufficient to support themselves in their old age, and preferably with surplus to enhance the lives of the younger generations as well.
The first full generation of Germans to spend their lives as wards of a socialist welfare state are now hitting what they imagine should be retirement-at-leisure age. It takes some serious audacity for them (and others purporting to speak on their behalf) to complain that the cash-strapped, tax-crushed current generation of young adults is failing to do their patriotic duty of making enough babies to support the elderly. The current elderly generation is the one that allowed the pyramid scheme of socialism to take hold in the first place, and they sure aren't offering to give up their mountain of government-guaranteed old age benefits so that the younger generation can afford to have more children.
Social engineering via tax codes is ALWAYS bad and ALWAYS antithetical to freedom. Just slash the tax rates, period, and let people make their own choices about what to do with their own money. Many of them will have more children, but others won’t. That’s called freedom.
And the budget cuts to compensate for the initial drop in tax revenue from slashed rates need to hit the generation that’s responsible for this mess, namely those now hitting retirement age, who presided over a massive expansion of socialist welfare programs because they wanted hand-outs for themselves.
It’s just too much work to make a baby nowadays.
Populations with high birth rates are populations for whom children are profitable to the parents. Some or all of them are earning their food by age 10 or 12 and adding income to the family shortly thereafter. They are also the social security for the parents. Social Security is probably the largest single contributor to the birth dearth. Parents don’t have to rely on their children to support them in their old age. Consequently also, respect foe old folks declines with social security because the kids don’t have to take care of Mom and Pop and thus don’t live with them.
“Helloooooo!!! “Supporting an aging population” isn’t a reason people should be having babies. Human society isn’t supposed to be a pyramid scheme. The aged population should have worked hard and made large contributions to their society’s physical and intellectual capital, sufficient to support themselves in their old age, and preferably with surplus to enhance the lives of the younger generations as well.”
That is a modern/western perspective, but families were stronger when the younger did help care for the older.
PSST, don't spread it around but socialism makes it way too expensive for anyone to take the initiative to risk financial "change" and add burden to maintaining financial survival as a family.
Europe is gone...
See the following from another post of mine...
That evil and oppressive governmental idealogy of Islam and the way of implementing it by Sharia law is already making inroads right here in this country the good ole USA. Were about to see a takeover of the U.S. by the evil and oppressive idealogy of the government of Islam (that is aiming for world-wide conquest and has stated that the U.S. is *on its list* to take over...)
And for those people who need some additional facts about what the evil and oppressive governmental idealogy of Islam is doing, look at some of the following.
Theres no question about it... the enemy is *Islam* itself and the evil and oppressive and false idealogy that it perpetrates. Some say the problem is fascism (instead of the basic oppressive governmental idealogy of Islam, itself). But, that is to engage in political correctness and nothing more... and sidetracks people from the *true enemy* in this war.
In one generation well see, right here in the United States that Islam is the enemy and not fascism...
and also, this...
Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION
and then, looking at this...
The Third Jihad (video - abridged version of film)
This is the allowance of false gods to take over this nation because of the ignorance of the people of the land in regards to the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...
And so, we see that were going to have the false god of Islam ruling over the USA and running the USA in just one generation from now.
Socialism and environmentalism look like the culprits to me. The same situation holds true for other nations where socialism and the enviromental craze have taken root.
What I've read about it in the past, is that the more advanced and successful the country (you know like third world countries and/or Western nations) the fewer kids they have. So, as people themselves become more succesful, the birth rate goes down. There might be some exceptions for some religious preferences (a couple of groups I can think of).
But, Muslims... they just take over by sheer numbers and they're due to take over this country in a generation or two.
“Social engineering via tax codes is ALWAYS bad and ALWAYS antithetical to freedom. Just slash the tax rates, period, and let people make their own choices about what to do with their own money. Many of them will have more children, but others wont. Thats called freedom.”
The social engineering was done decades ago with the invention of the Pill, legalization of abortion, and the mainstreaming of women into college and into the workplace. Put another way - children get in the way.
So the question is whether we let this social engineering run its course and DESTROY Western Society, which it’s well on its way to doing - or does the West take REAL steps to address the problem? I doubt you want that outcome - but it WILL happen, probably in a couple of decades in Europe, and then later here.
As to tax cuts, fine - but they won’t do crap for this problem - it simply isn’t the issue.
Also note that cultures that did not and have not participated in this social engineering experiment decades ago (i.e., Islamic countries) do not have the population issues that we are dealing with.
In a classic case of confusing cause and effect, I give you the following text from a hotlink in the article: “See why the recssion is causing women to have fewer kids.”
There are other doozies in the article, like blaming the quality of government child care. As if civil society has always had government child care, but the quality of it has just now declined to the point where it is impacting the birth rate.
FAMILIES, not the government. And normally this was done by younger family members who were currently enjoying economic, concrete, and intellectual capital that had been amassed by the now-elderly family members. The house was owned free and clear (long since paid for, if not actually built by hand) by the now-elderly, the many acres of farmland and pasture had already been cleared and made productive by the now-elderly, the wealth of knowledge and experience re how to maximize production had been passed on by the now-elderly to the younger generation, giving the younger generation sufficient resources to spend time and money/goods caring for the elderly. The elderly had pre-paid for their own old-age care.
Any German Freepers out there? You need to get busy! ;-)
Note that many of us do not regard the current culture of Islamic societies as something we'd like our own societies to resemble. A teeming population is a huge cultural and political burden, and tends to promote ideologies which appeal to frustrated young adults who see no realistic hope of a bright future. The ethnically native populations of Western societies may have low birth rates, but precious few of the children we do have are susceptible to suggestions that blowing themselves up for Allah (or for anything else) would be their best course of action.
The days of endless frontiers of habitable, arable land, providing a bright future for as many fledgling adults as the previous generation could churn out, are long gone and not coming back. And anytime the rate of population growth outpaces the rate of economic growth, big trouble lies ahead.
I once saw the following on a T-shirt in California:
Sex - give until you’re tired.
“Note that many of us do not regard the current culture of Islamic societies as something we’d like our own societies to resemble. “
I used them as an example, and you FULL WELL know that.
Anyway feel free to push your “Death to West” agenda (by depopulating us while our enemies do not), but I don’t have to respond to it.
And illegal alien Mexicans and Central Americans.
The 12 million illegals in the US is a lie and a joke. There's more like 20 to 30 million. Not to mention all the other millions that were already here.
Between the treasonous, leftist, Dim Dhim America haters, the so called “main stream media”, Hollywood and the universities, America and freedom is disappearing right under our feet.
Illegal aliens may be on the minds of everyone now, but it’s the Muslims who will control this country and not the Mexicans or South Americans ... see the Demographics video ...
So kindly show me an example of a society that currently has rapid population growth, and is currently politically and economically stable and not a hotbed of terrorism or communist insurgency.
They are only worried about not enough kids to pay off banksters debts. Much like the Kaiser used to worry about having enough males to kill off on battle fields for what ever elitist notions he had. Humans as resource digits. Integers. Statistics.
“So kindly show me an example of a society that currently has rapid population growth, and is currently politically and economically stable and not a hotbed of terrorism or communist insurgency.”
Name a country that has given in to the SOCIAL ENGINEERING of feminism that IS NOT going through a population crash - and cheating by allowing unfriendly immigrants doesn’t count.
I don’t know...maybe it’s just because I have kids and I don’t want to them have to live in a country and a world overrun with people that are basically barbarian - which HAS TO HAPPEN unless DRASTIC steps are taken (either make more babies here, or delete lots of theirs).
And I am willing to do what is necessary to reverse the past social engineering...even if it looks like sacrificing conservative values.
Add to this a profound pessimism resulting from the two wars, and the traditional passivity of the Germans. Voluntarism, which is in the American DNA, is alien to the Germans, who leave politics to the professionals.
Agreed. Muslims are the real threat here. Not Mexicans.
More rubbish about how this are not enough “social services.”
German culture now has ingested socialism, materialism, PC guilt, white angst and multiculteralism. The message is - why should there be a next generation?
“I’m out of tears after Nov 2008.”
You and me both.
When will they realize that the Muslims are taking over and that they must have children to offset that?
Well, after you deduct the illegal and/or unfriendly immigrants, the U.S. population is stable, not “crashing”. And a stable population works just fine until the pyramid schemes of socialism are introduced, including the pyramid scheme of promising all sorts of old-age benefits on the assumption that a greatly increased population of younger people will fund it when payout time arrives.
New Zealand is an example of a country with stable population — birth rate is at perfect replacement level of 2.1 per woman (obviously representing high rates of conraceptive use), and immigration rates are relatively low, and significantly offset by emigration rates (mainly to Australia and the UK). It is economically, politically, and socially stable.
I’m just practicing to be a journalist or Zer0 explainer (media flak).
Getting into a breeding contest with Arabs and Central/South Americans and Africans is hardly the way to ensure a civilized society for your children to live in after they’re grown up.
Clamping down on immigration from underdeveloped and/or unstable countries to developed and stable countries, should be a high priority. Those populations’ growth rates would naturally slow, if we weren’t providing a release valve for the pressures of their excessively high birth rates, just as the population growth rates of Europeans in North America slowed drastically when our ancestors hit the end of the frontier. Other countries’ borders need to serve as the “end of the frontier” for populations that are growing (and behaving) like feral cats.
The populations of the Soviet Union and its satellite nations did a very effective job of bringing down their anti-freedom governments by starving said governments of new warm bodies to staff the planned growth of government-controlled industry and the military. Making lots of babies in a pyramid-scheme society simply feeds and perpetuates the pyramid scheme. In the West, the socialist governments are trying to fight back by making up the difference with uncontrolled immigration. The native populations need to fight back hard on that front TOO, not compete with it by responding to government pleas for more babies. People are limiting their reproduction because they can’t afford a decent life for children when they’re being so heavily taxed to fund the ever-growing pyramid scheme. We can resume higher rates of reproduction later, after the pyramid scheme has been starved to death, and we can bring children into societies where they can be assured of living with some reasonable semblance of freedom.
Getting into a breeding contest with Arabs and Central/South Americans and Africans is hardly the way to ensure a civilized society for your children to live in after theyre grown up.
It's worse than that ... if you look at that Demographics video, you'll see that it's not just keeping the Muslims out (if you could do that, and I don't think you can) -- it's also, if they weren't even here -- because of those demographics, our society is going into an "implosion" that we can't recover from, as a society ...
“it’s also, if they weren’t even here — because of those demographics, our society is going into an “implosion” that we can’t recover from, as a society ...”
...and that doesn’t seem to bother some of us.
Yeah, we’ll just hand-off the implosion to our kids and grandkids ...
Each couple has to determine this for themselves...my experience has been that when people have talked to me about the things they need to save up for in order to have children...most of the things are not that important, and then I end up scratching my head when they go right into the discussion about the two new cars that they just bought, or the new cell phone plan, or the $100 month cable bill, etc.
Just for back ground, several people do talk to me about children since they are not used to seeing a family with seven children...so I even have strangers approach me at times. For the most part they start out thinking that it is great to see a large family and then go right into how expensive it is to have a child and why they could never have more then one or two. When I tell them that we are a single income family and most of the items they talk about being expensive don’t need to be (buy used if you cannot pay cash for new...works for cars, lawnmowers, clothes, appliances, cribs, highchair, etc.) they seem shocked that I would think like that.
I guess my outlook might be different then most...my wife and I were told by our doctor as a young married couple that we would not be able to have children, and after further testing had that confirmed by other doctors. We decided to leave this in God’s hands and He blessed us with seven children over the next seventeen years.
I have a great life because of the children and I just wish that more people would be able to experience this. I can truely agree with Scripture that they are a blessing...