Posted on 05/27/2010 7:26:12 PM PDT by devane617
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"The law will make entering the country illegally a state crime in Arizona..."
(Excerpt) Read more at yourwestvalley.com ...
Umm, ya. Just as I'm sure it's illegal in just about every other country in the world.
A bare assertion isn't the same thing as the naked truth. You've made a counterfactual assertion. Prove me wrong.
Thank you for the videos.
See, that’s what happens to SCOTUS justices - they lose their clerks, and then they actually say what comes into their head.
Sometimes, the only thing left up there is a single exposed bulb, cobwebs, an old piece of cheese, and a spider.
BULL.
O’Connor needs to demonstrate that the Arizonans -including those Hispanic-American ones - who SUPPORTED THIS BILL OVERWHELMINGLY - were motivated by racism.
shows what happens when you pick for gender or skin color
yes I think we all agree that legal immigrants have a right to be here..who here would say otherwise and yes Mexican descendants do join the army but they deserve no special pat for that anymore than anyone else
we are only coddling these illegals because they are not “white” and the Dems and media want them here to vote Left which they will mostly and so they play the race card for them
were they “white” we would be hunting them down like rabbits and the left and media would be cheering wildly about securing borders
right now whites are being slaughtered in Rhodesia and South Africa...where is the clamour to take in these “victims” in need of a “better life”.
this is about a minority based on skin tone and culture being excuse once again...no different a pattern than how view “blacks” and excuse those amongst them who are off the reservation..."they are poor", "they are victims of discrimination"...etc
there is a worldwide effort to dismantle western civilization..or what we used to call it....and it means culturally and politically attacking what are perceived as “white” (majority) Judeo Christian cultures by those not a part of it....it is a major issue in Britain and France as we speak and the Left wants the same thing here.
and so it goes...it's happened very fast.
The trouble with that is that the process for becoming a US citizen is both stupid and oppressive. To start with, you must have a desired skill or money to get more than short term residency. Then you must wait 5 years for permanent residency, then another 5 years for a green card, and another 5 or more years for citizenship. All of it is quota based, with myriad exceptions and additions.
Much of the time you must travel back and forth with your home country, and can only submit paperwork there, not while you are in the US. Often you are prohibited from work in the US, while the process is ongoing.
Okay, but that is doing it the right way. The legal way. But what happens to those who come across as illegals?
To start with, they can go to work immediately. Their children, infants through teenagers, could enter US schooling, often resulting in complete integration by the time they are adults. They can buy goods with their money as well. And those that earn money in the US can send some of it back to their home country to support the rest of their family.
Golly. So if they do things the legal way, they will spend 15-20 years of their life having their chain pulled by bureaucrats. But if they cross illegally, they can immediately benefit, have children who will automatically become US citizens, work hard and make lots of money, and generally lead a good, productive life.
That is some choice. The only surprise is that *any* Mexican is willing to do it the legal way.
And it is very obvious why, according to the Border Patrol, there are some 15-20 million illegal aliens in the US right now.
From my point of view, the biggest problem is not the sheer number of aliens, but the unwillingness of the US government to, first of all, kick out the violent, criminal aliens that are a major pain in the ass.
Second to that, is to create a much more sane process by which those illegals currently in the US can achieve citizenship, while remaining in the US. This does not have to be easy or cheap, but it must be reasonable enough for reasonable people to choose to do it instead of remaining illegal.
Importantly, this must be focused *exclusively* on Mexicans, not illegals from other nations. The rules on the people of other nations should be just as strict as they are now. If they are illegal, they should be deported, and barred from reentry (which makes return a serious felony offense.)
This means that Mexicans in the US are separated as to whether they are “sheep or goats”. If they are good, they perform productive labor, are making efforts to integrate and learn English, do not form ghettos, do not engage in criminal activity, and pay all past and present taxes they owe.
If they are bad, they are expelled. For good. If they come back, they will spend a decade in a federal penitentiary, then be deported again.
Right now, before congress is the DREAM Act. It is the recognition that many illegal children are fully integrated into the US, and are de facto citizens already. Sending them “back” to a country they know nothing about is as brutal as sending any child to a strange foreign country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Act
There are some serious problems in the DREAM Act, but it at least recognizes that a “Aw, just kick them ALL out” attitude will neither work, is immensely cruel, and is not something America does, or hopefully ever will do. Andrew Jackson ethnically cleansed the northern and eastern US of Indians, pushing them west of the Mississippi. That should be the only time in our history when we did something like that.
GREAT!!!
What next....it's cruel to place people in prison?
Makes about as much sense....
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1024/exit-poll-analysis-hispanics
This means that McCain won only 4% of the black vote, which is close enough to be called “monolithic”, because so many voted the same way, for Obama.
Hispanics, of which the vast majority in the US are Mexican, voted with one third of their support to McCain. Thus they are not a monolithic vote.
Importantly, this was *more* Republican than their mid-term election vote in 2006:
http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/26.pdf
And previously, some 40% of Hispanic voters preferred W. Bush over Al Gore. Again, far more a monolithic vote.
So therefore, my assertion is quite factual.
While Mexicans are predominantly, officially Catholic, there are some very dark undertones that few in the US are aware of, that may someday turn very, very ugly.
By far, the worst of these is the Santa Muerte cult, which has Catholic trappings, but it strongly condemned by the church, because it is purely a throwback to the Aztec religion. It now has perhaps as many as two million followers, and no bones about it, it is a death cult. And this could become very, very bad.
The last major death cult was the Thuggee in India, who randomly murdered between 50k and 2m people of all castes and classes, even the British. When the British army launched a military expedition to literally wipe them out, they had the solid backing of just about everyone. And they meant wipe out, to the last Thug.
They had to do this twice, because it regenerated itself after the first time. One of their leaders had attributed to him 931 killings.
And all the Santa Muerte cult needs is a charismatic leader, and nobody in North America would be safe. At their height, the Thuggee likely numbered no more than several thousand. It would be a hideous prospect if the Santa Muerte cult went on the warpath.
The Thuggee cult is where we get the word “thug” from, isn’t it?
We don't have a merit based immigration system. It is based on kinship. You don't have to have a desired skill or money if you have an American citizen or LPR relative sponsoring you or if you get married to an AMCIT. Chain migration or family reunification is the biggest driver of immigration into this country. We bring in 1.2 million a year so it is not that difficult compared to almost any other place on the planet. Do you have any idea what it takes to become a citizen in other countries? I do.Much of the time you must travel back and forth with your home country, and can only submit paperwork there, not while you are in the US. Often you are prohibited from work in the US, while the process is ongoing.
About 30% of the people who get their green cards do so by changing their status while in the US. Generally, you must and should apply in your home country to get your immigrant visa. It would make no sense for people to come here and apply. There are close to three million people abroad who are waiting their turn to come into this country based on the various immigration categories and caps. They have completed all of the paperwork.
To start with, they can go to work immediately. Their children, infants through teenagers, could enter US schooling, often resulting in complete integration by the time they are adults. They can buy goods with their money as well. And those that earn money in the US can send some of it back to their home country to support the rest of their family.
They are doing so illegally, which is why we need to enforce our laws and deport them. It is against the law to hire people who are here illegally. And it is against the law for people to work here who are not here illegally.
Golly. So if they do things the legal way, they will spend 15-20 years of their life having their chain pulled by bureaucrats. But if they cross illegally, they can immediately benefit, have children who will automatically become US citizens, work hard and make lots of money, and generally lead a good, productive life.
The 15-20 years is not the norm by a long shot. It all depends on what immigration category you fit into. We should not reward people who enter illegally. They need to be deported. It is unfair to the people who are doing it the right way. Moreover, we don't want people who violate our laws in many different ways to be rewarded with citizenship.
From my point of view, the biggest problem is not the sheer number of aliens, but the unwillingness of the US government to, first of all, kick out the violent, criminal aliens that are a major pain in the ass.
They all need to kicked out. And the numbers are a problem. We have over 400,000 anchor babies born each year who become automatically American citizens eligible for benefits such as Medicaid and food stamps.
Second to that, is to create a much more sane process by which those illegals currently in the US can achieve citizenship, while remaining in the US. This does not have to be easy or cheap, but it must be reasonable enough for reasonable people to choose to do it instead of remaining illegal.
No amnesty and no citizenship. Any legislation that legalizes the status of those who broke our laws by entering our country illegally and allows them to stay is amnesty. We must not only prevent the Democrats and some moderate Republicans from hijacking the meaning of the word amnesty, but the public must be made aware about the true impact of an amnesty. The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty alone would be $2.6 trillion. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen.
Right now, before congress is the DREAM Act. It is the recognition that many illegal children are fully integrated into the US, and are de facto citizens already. Sending them “back” to a country they know nothing about is as brutal as sending any child to a strange foreign country.
The Dream Act is just another form of amnesty. It should not pass.
Okay, comparatively speaking, how would you feel about the problems associated with sending 1/3rd of the US black population “back” to Africa? That would be about an equivalent number of people.
Or Italian-Americans. About the same number of them in the US as there are illegal aliens.
Of course these are both ludicrous ideas, but this is the scale of the number of people we are talking about. About five times the size of the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia, and you saw what troubles that created.
Yes, or no..will do. Nothing more.
You say “kick out” with such ease. How do you propose to “kick out” some 15 million people?
In New York City alone, there are between 1-2 million illegals.
That is between 1/8th and 1/4th of the population of the city. Transported 1,700 miles to Laredo, Texas, the closest border town.
Is it easy to live life unable to imagine a more complex solution than a binary one? Eat or not eat? Eat food or eat not food? That is Democrat level logic. Life doesn’t work like that. Especially when you are talking about 15 million people.
If I were to trespass onto your property, leave my garbage in your yard, crap on your porch and help myself to your treasures, would you be so understanding with me?
If some of my friends and family were to rape and kill some of your neighbors, would you still feel as though your neighborhood was secure and continue to be such a good host to me?
If your hospitals and schools were shut down because of trespassing by my friends and relatives, would that be acceptable?
You know that I could go on all day, but I wont.
You wrote: “So the bottom line is that there are a lot of good ethnically Mexicans in the group, and they show real promise to be good citizens, if they get a legitimate chance, and a process to prove themselves.”
Well, here’s MY bottom line. This is not about Mexicans. It’s not about law abiding folks that show promise to be good citizens. This is about following the rule of law, This is about the US of A being MY country, not the country of anyone on two legs that would rather live here and somehow thinks that I owe them a living on my tax dollars.
Come in LEGALLY. Learn the language, MINE. Become part of America, love it, or get the heck out of my country. If you want to be an American, then act like it, fight for it and work for the good of it.
There are good and well intended people all over the world, but we can’t afford to adopt them all.
We need to bring this garbage to a screeching halt. Either those in power will remedy the problem.. or We the People will damn sure do it.... soon.
This was not meant to be an attack at you and I believe that your intentions are honorable.... I just don’t agree with you... at all.
Please have a nice day.
Dan
Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arizona proving that it does. During the 2006 amnesty debate, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) commissioned a Zogby poll offering respondents not the false choice between mass deportation or amnesty (a word CIS did not use in the survey), but rather a three-way choice between mass deportation, earned legalization, and attrition — and attrition was preferred two-to-one over legalization.
Here is what we should do to reform our immigration policies:
We need a pro-immigrant, low immigration policy that contains the following elements:
A merit based immigration system that brings in the skills and talents to keep us competitive in the global economy;
Reduced immigration levels based on need and more closely approximating 500,000 immigrants a year recommended by the Jordan Commission;
Elimination of extended chain migration, i.e., family reunification, limiting it to the nuclear family;
Enforcement of existing immigration laws to reduce the current illegal alien population and limit future illegal immigration, i.e., attrition thru enforcement. Enforcement would include: (1) ending the job magnet; (2) increasing coordination at the federal level by eliminating barriers to information sharing among agencies; (3) leveraging state and local enforcement resources; (4) fully implementing the US-VISIT Program to track and deport visa overstays; and (5) make mandatory and improve such programs as E-Verify and 287 [g] authority to assist employers and law enforcement in identifying illegal aliens;
Elimination of birthright citizenship;
Ensure that anyone who enters this nation illegally is not rewarded by being permitted to stay and work here; i.e., no amnesty;
Streamline the processing and adjudication of immigration cases; and
Promote pro-immigrant measures that help newcomers assimilate and embrace the values and principles of our Founders and the Constitution.
LOL. Yet that is what you offer as the choices we have: mass deportation or mass amnesty. If we enforce our laws, we will have self-deportation. We tried a "one-time" amnesty in 1986. It didn't work. We gave 2.7 million amnesty and now we have 12 to 20 million more illegals. When you reward illegal behavior, you get more of it. And then after this group gets amnesty, more illegals will enter expecting a third amnesty.
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