The Fix Is In - Kangaroo Court for LTC Lakin Scheduled 11 June

safeguardourconstitution.com ^ | June 3, 2010 | Staff

[jcwky]

I would totally agree with everything you’ve said, but I have to say that all those “assertions” you’ve made, I believe each of them are true, but they are yet to be PROVEN. Like you, I BELIEVE he is a usurper, but you can’t just disobey a lawful order because you THINK or BELIEVE he’s not eligible. I don’t like it either, but my thought is that you have to push the eligibility question on one-hand, but still obey the “lawful” orders of your superiors until proven otherwise.

[tired_old_conservative]

“So what I hear you saying is that if a military coup took over the presidency without an election, whoever the false president appointed as SCOTUS would first have to rule that an unconstitutional coup had taken place. Then, and only then, would military people be able to do anything except pick their noses and blindly obey.

Am I hearing you correctly?’

No, you don't hear right. What I'm saying is that this is not a banana republic. The military doesn't take out leaders and install leaders based on its personal preferences. If the legislative and judicial branches say a President has met the requirements to be legally elected, then the military itself is shredding the Constitution if it disputes that. The United States military will not do that.

“It can be plain as day to any thinking person on the planet that an illegal action has taken place, but nobody can do a dang thing about it until the men in the black robes (who by their very appointment have a conflict of interest) tell us what we all already know. The facts don’t matter. Only the judicial rulings matter.

Is that what you mean?”

Lots of things that “seem plain as day to any thinking person” turn out to not be true upon careful examination. That's one of the reasons we have a Constitution as opposed to mob rule. Legal processes establish a consistent basis from which to sift for facts as objectively as possible and only act after formal determinations have been made.

You believe an illegal action has occurred. But neither you, I, nor LTC Lakin get to decide that; for us to decide is mob rule, a historical evil so well-documented it hardly requires explanation.

The legal mechanisms established to make this determination simply do not agree with you that an illegal action has occurred. What seems obvious to you was not obvious to any of the officials empowered to make formal determinations. That happens in the legal system to someone every single day. Which, again, is why we have a legal system—people often have grievances that are either wrong or not actionable in any meaningful sense. Life goes on.

“How the heck was anybody able to arrest Nidal Hasan, for heaven’s sake? Could an enlisted person have acted as his own “Supreme Court” and decided that Hasan was an enemy combatant without first taking it to SCOTUS? After all, Hasan was a higher rank and somebody watching him shoot up the place doesn’t have the authority to rule on the facts of a matter. Right?”

Nidal Hassan was committing an obvious crime that required no interpretation on the part of anyone. The Constitution does not define what a natural born citizen is, so just because you want that definition to be one thing doesn't make your desire actionable. That requires an interpretation from an authority empowered to make it, because again we do not have mob rule.

In Hassan’s case, murder is well defined in the legal system. His acts of murder were obvious to the casual observer (i.e., someone was alive ten seconds ago, you shot them, now they're not). No one has to rule on the facts of the matter because they are exactly that—physical facts occurring before one’s very eyes. The situation requires no interpretation and is not analogous to the Obama NBC issue at all. If Obama was gunning people down on The Mall, no one would need an interpretation from anyone to take him down.

[Non-Sequitur]

Well, unlike you, I support the government under The Constitution. If that makes me an "idiot", so be it!

Oh the things that make you an idiot go a whole lot deeper than that.

[jcwky]

From a legal standpoint, “probable cause” has as many practical definitions as they are attorney’s and judges. Here, you are talking about someone who BELIEVES (as I do) that Obama is likely not eligible to be commander in chief. But BELIEF and “burden of proof” are two separate things.

I am simply saying that the correct course from the perspective of a soldier is that you challenge his authority by bringing suit (class action or otherwise) and I believe that you would have standing. However, until PROVEN that he is a usurper, you need to obey not only his orders, but the lawful orders of all those other “legitimate” officers until you prove in court, your BELIEF that he is a usurper. You can’t allow every soldier to just decide because he or she “thinks” someone is not legitimate, that they can just disobey an otherwise “lawful order”.

To do so, invites what is likely to happen to LTC Lakin. Very sad business - our government oversight is almost non-existent.

[The Sons of Liberty]

You are a self righteous know it all, arrogant SOB like YOUR boy 0bammy, aren’t you. I guess that’s why you go by NonSenseiQueer.

[Uncle Chip]

This is just round ONE --

The LT has what it takes to outlast them all --

[centurion316]

Where in the Constitution does it say that the natural born requirement ceases to exist as long as Congress doesn’t care about it?

The same issue can be cited for the 10th Amendment. Its still in the Constitution, but no one seems to care and certainly no one enforces it.

[Clock King]

Babylon 5 saw this coming 20 years ago. I would post a summary, but it can be looked up on Wikipedia. Episode, Severed Dreams, season 3. Suffice to say, midway through the series, the Earth Alliance is breaking down, with colonies breaking away from the central government. President Clarke has taken full control and dissolved the Senate, and instituted martial law. The military is split between loyalists to the Earth Constitution, elite forces loyal to Clarke, and neutral forces waiting for the political wing to solve their issues. Earth is now a dictatorship.

Major Ryan (right): [has just finished describing to those gathered at the table what is happening back on earth: shock troops patrol the cities, mass media under control of the Night Watch (brownshirts), Senate dissolved, rebel cities being bombed]
Ivanova: I just don't see how so many people in Earth Dome would go along with this!
Major Ryan: Clarke spent the last two years putting his people in key places. Anyone who speaks up is, pushed aside. Under conditions like that, it's easier to keep quiet.

[jamese777]

From a legal standpoint, “probable cause” has as many practical definitions as they are attorney’s and judges. Here, you are talking about someone who BELIEVES (as I do) that Obama is likely not eligible to be commander in chief. But BELIEF and “burden of proof” are two separate things.

I am simply saying that the correct course from the perspective of a soldier is that you challenge his authority by bringing suit (class action or otherwise) and I believe that you would have standing. However, until PROVEN that he is a usurper, you need to obey not only his orders, but the lawful orders of all those other “legitimate” officers until you prove in court, your BELIEF that he is a usurper. You can’t allow every soldier to just decide because he or she “thinks” someone is not legitimate, that they can just disobey an otherwise “lawful order”.

To do so, invites what is likely to happen to LTC Lakin. Very sad business - our government oversight is almost non-existent.

---

I believe that the way to resolve the questions of Obama’s eligibility as a Natural Born Citizen is via the criminal side of the judicial system rather than the civil side.

There have been more than 70 civil lawsuits filed including 8 which have reached the US Supreme Court and none have succeeded due to “standing” issues and “failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.” That is the judiciary’s way of saying, “this isn’t an issue that we can do anything about.” Once again the Investigating Officer in the Lakin Article 32 hearing says clearly: “It is the job of Congress to determine presidential eligibility, not a court martial.” He is absolutely correct.

The proper legal way to resolve this issue is by finding a prosecuting attorney with the intestinal fortitude to launch a Grand Jury investigation into Obama’s birth documents for alteration, forgery and fraud. Then subpoenas can be issued for the original documents and expert testimony can be heard under oath.

Any District Attorney, state Attorney General or US Attorney can convene such a Grand Jury. Remember that it was the Whitewater and Paula Jones Grand Juries that ultimately led to the impeachment of Bill Clinton and it was the Blagojevich Grand Jury indictment in Illinois that led to his impeachment and removal by his own political party within a month of the indictment.

Lawsuits are not the way to go. Grand Jury investigations ARE the way to go.

[Uncle Chip]

I believe that the way to resolve the questions of Obama’s eligibility as a Natural Born Citizen is via the criminal side of the judicial system rather than the civil side.

Are you posting this comment as part of your salaried duties as an Obamabot drone????

[butterdezillion]

NOBODY IN OUR ENTIRE POLITICAL AND LEGAL SYSTEM HAS EVER ADDRESSED THE FACTS. NOBODY WITH LEGAL POWER HAS EVEN ***ASKED*** TO SEE OBAMA’S GENUINE DOCUMENTATION.

What Nidal Hasan did has not been proven as a crime. He still has a trial coming up. He may have had inside information showing that all those people he shot up were trying to blow up the place. What he did APPEARED to some to be a crime, and they acted upon it.

Now imagine if everybody there saw the whole thing but the only person with “standing” to do anything about it was Nidal Hasan.

Then imagine that a person could get “standing” to act upon what appeared obvious and was causing obvious damage to innocent people only if they ditched their legal orders of cleaning potties.

Imagine that the person who abandoned latrine duty was then court-martialed because they stopped cleaning potties in order to take law and safety into their own hands by responding to the facts in front of them - the obvious lawlessness resulting in innocent victims - so that lives could be preserved until a court of law could eventually sort it all out in the legally-prescribed way.

Would that soldier who stemmed the damage until a court could/would take up the legalities of Hasan’s actions be guilty of “Banana Republic” behavior?

See, if you take my position to the extreme you get a “Banana Republic” controlled by the military. If you take your position to the extreme you get a “Banana Republic” controlled by the mafia. The only way to avoid the “Banana Republic” is when the FACTS - not a ruling class - determine everything, and the facts are always allowed to get a fair and open hearing when requested by the public.

That is all Lt Col Lakin has asked for ever since Obama was elected. All he has wanted was facts. All he has wanted was the accountability that YOU SAY is the basis for the Constitution and all our laws and courts. Why is Lakin considered the lawless one, when the SYSTEM ITSELF refuses to let the facts be found?

Why isn’t Nancy Pelosi being court-martialed (or the civilian equivalent)? She committed perjury, for heaven’s sake. She broke her own oath and disobeyed not only the protocols of her office but of the US Constitution. Why is she not on trial yet? Who has standing to put her on trial?

If nobody has standing, then we are ALREADY a Banana Republic.

[butterdezillion]

But the military courts already ruled that Pamela Barnett didn’t have standing.

That’s the problem. The only way for anybody to have “standing” is for them to get charged with something bad.

Tired old conservative, if there was a coup without an election how would military personnel get past the de facto requirement? Even if everybody knew the take-over was illegal, the person claiming to have the position would be de facto.

[butterdezillion]

I agree, but who has a big enough pair to do that? When you find that person who has the position and willingness to do it, let me know and I will be the first person presenting them with the reasons why an investigation is critical.

[jamese777]

Are you posting this comment as part of your salaried duties as an Obamabot drone????

---

I’ll take it from the above that you would NOT like to see Obama indicted for forgery or fraud.

[jamese777]

I agree, but who has a big enough pair to do that? When you find that person who has the position and willingness to do it, let me know and I will be the first person presenting them with the reasons why an investigation is critical.

---

Will do! Hope springs eternal.

[butterdezillion]

More power to ya, and I hope and pray that we can find somebody who is willing and able. I fear we may be running out of time though.

[Red Steel]

Lakin is allowed to defend himself against the charges filed against him, and Obama's eligibility is irrelevant to that.

Lakin's arguments are relevant since the deployment orders to war zones come from the Executive Branch of government that initially starts with the president.

Obama could be exposed as a fraud and removed from office tomorrow, and Lakin would still be guilty of refusing to obey the orders of his brigade commander and of missing movement.

An unconstitutional order is just that which all military personal are compelled by law not to follow. As I said above, the order for his brigade to deploy came from the president himself not from some brigade commander as this article below states throughout:

As we see illustrated here, the orders to deploy starts with the President that flows down from the Secretary of Defense through the CINC Unified Commander to Commander of Joint Task Force or to the Commander of the Sub-unified Command or to the Functional Command Components which could be a divisional commander to the brigade level as so it goes...the Chain-of-Command.

It all starts at the top with Obama.

[butterdezillion]

It’s definitely time for the nation to repent.

I actually wonder if we’re the Babylon referred to in Revelation.

[Non-Sequitur]

Lakin's arguments are relevant since the deployment orders to war zones come from the Executive Branch of government that initially starts with the president.

Ok let's look at that. If Lakin's defense is that all orders are illegal if the commander-in-chief is ineligible then that is true regardless of who is in the White House. So he needs to make that case first and show the court what article of the UCMJ, what federal law, what clause of the Constitution supports that defense. If he can make that case then yes, Obama's eligibility is a central issue before the court and his documents should be made available. But if he can't make that case, if he can't show how his brigade commander's orders depend on the constitutional qualification of the president in order to be legal, then Obama's status is irrelevant.

[jcwky]

I believe that sort of supports the point that “elections are a civil matter” not a criminal one. Standing for one to hold federal office is determine by Congress and elections (and electors) are the oversight of each several state. I personally believe the state AG’s should be (or have been) the one’s to challenge the candidates status to be on the STATE ballot. I feel like this was a lost opportunity and one that we should not allow to pass us by again in 2012.