Navy Bans Tobacco Use on Its Submarine Fleet

nyt ^ | 6/20/10 | Thom Shanker

[swarthyguy]

LOL!

Soon you’ll be able to have a fag on board, but not be able to smoke a cigarette.

[pingman]

Part of the plan for a “kinder, gentler” sort of Navy; one that wouldn’t offend female sensibilities. (pffffft! RpppppP!)

BTW, both my folks were career naval officers; weather guessers, of all things. Made for some esoteric breakfast banter: isobars, thermal whatnots, etc...

And yes, they both smoked like destroyers at flank speed!

[Gator113]

After Obama lifts DADT, “run silent, run deep” will have an entirely new meaning. But that will be healthy. Smoking bad—gay sex good.

Witnessing the deevoludtion of mankind, doing anything to lengthen lifespan seems rather pointless.

[Pontiac]

Why not neither? I work with an ex-submariner and he doesn't use tobacco in any form. Doesn't seem to hurt him.

I am not an advocate of tobacco use. Personally for the most part I am against it.

I am an advocate of freedom and liberty.

The men and women in the Navy surrender a great deal of liberty to serve their country, they do so by free choice. They freely choose to put their lives at risk to protect the freedom of this country.

The men and women currently serving in the Navy joined before this policy was put in place I do not believe it is fair to place this restriction on them ex post facto.

In general I do not believe it is within the powers of the Federal Government to restrict the use of tobacco at all. However the powers of the Executive over the armed forces are for the most part limitless.

But back to my original post and your comment I have seen it happen numerous times. When a smoker has for whatever reason been prevented from smoking he (in all instance it has been a man) has satisfied his addiction with chewing or snuff tobacco.

Having known more than my share of sailors I have no doubts that they having been prevented from smoking will begin chewing or dipping. I few may quit but the percentage will be small.

Just chew gum. That won't offend anyone.

If there is one thing that sailors (Squids especially) don’t worry about is offending people.

And by the way; I do find gum chewing offensive. My kids where never permitted to chew gum in my presence.

[Grunthor]

By the end of the year the only things being smoked in the navy will be po!es

[Rebelbase]

[truthguy]

I am an advocate of freedom and liberty.

Me too, that's why I think people should be free of cigarette smoke. We all have to give up a little absolute freedom when others are affected. I can't turn my stereo up to Maximum @ 3:00AM! I can't drive 100mph on the Freeways. I can't do many things that would affect others. That's where I draw the line. I guess many smokers have forgotten just how offensive it is for non-smokers to have to breath and smell the smoke. On a surface ship you can probably go outside and smoke. The winds will remove the smoke and nobody is offended. But a submarine is akin to an airliner. The air is recirculated and the smoke permeates the entire boat. Many sailors have complained about this. On a long voyage this can be very irritating and affect the performance of the crew.

[shempy]

You are more likely to get oral cancer from smoking than from chewing. It is the heat and the burning carbon, not the plant or the nicotine.

[truthguy]

Now that "can of farts"(lol) will not have that smoky flavor to cover up the 'fart' flavor. Back when you could smoke in a bar you would very seldom smell a fart - now a good one will clear a room...At least they will be able to cut down the air filtration units in the subs now...yeah, that won't create a whole different set of issues...Achoo!

What rubbish. I've spent quite a bit of time in bars and I can tell you the best thing that ever happened was the smoking bans. Although I still believe it should be up to the owner of the bar (or restaurant) as to whether it should be smoking or non-smoking. I can remember having to go outside so that I could get some air. I can remember the burning sensation in my eyes. I can remember my clothes smelling absolutely rotten the next day. Still I believe that we can have smoking and non-smoking establishments. But when we have situations where it's not feasible then non-smoking should be the default situation. I just cannot fathom how many smokers cannot understand how irritating it is for non-smokers to have to tolerate the smoke.

[Pontiac]

Have an article to cite for that?

[Pontiac]

The air is recirculated and the smoke permeates the entire boat. Many sailors have complained about this. On a long voyage this can be very irritating and affect the performance of the crew.

Of all of the sub sailors I have ever known non have ever complained about the smoke on the boat (and they complained about a lot of things).

Most of the smells that they complained about were diesel fuel, sump water and farts.

[shempy]

I certainly do, thanks for asking! It is a bit counter-intuitive, but it is true. The following is from Reason magazine, October 1995. It quotes a study from The New England Journal of Medicine as well as some studies from the University of Alabama:

Rodu, chairman of the oral pathology department at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, notes that oral cancer is the only major, well-established health risk associated with the use of smokeless tobacco (and even that disease is twice as common among smokers). A 1981 study published in The New England Journal of Medicine found an oral-cancer rate of 26 per 100,000 among long-term users of smokeless tobacco, compared to 6 per 100,000 among nonusers. Noting that the survival rate for oral cancer is 50 percent, Rodu estimates that "if all 46 million smokers used smokeless tobacco instead, the United States would see, at worst, 6,000 deaths from oral cancer [a year], versus the current 419,000 deaths from smoking-related cancers, heart problems, and lung disease." (Emphasis in original.) By this measure, he concludes, smokeless tobacco is 98 percent safer than smoking. Rodu and his colleagues estimate that life expectancy for a 35-year-old smokeless-tobacco user is 80.9, virtually the same as for nonusers. The average 35-year-old smoker, by contrast, lives to be 73.1.

[libertarian27]

The air is recirculated and the smoke permeates the entire boat............

**********

Most of the smells that they complained about were diesel fuel, sump water and farts.

Wait until they start slowing down those air recirculation pumps because(there's no need to scrub cigarette smoke) to save money and 'go green' - give it a year and the 'sub sickness' reports will most likely come out....

[Pontiac]

Rather an old study.

Smokeless tobacco is much more prevalent today and growing. It may be time for a new study.

[Pontiac]

give it a year and the 'sub sickness' reports will most likely come out....

Actually sub sickness is well known.

The Boomers I have known have told me that with in a few days of setting to sea the majority of the crew would come down with a cold and get over it in a week or so.

Then after a six months deployment they would pull back in to port and after a few days in port the majority of crew would be sick again.

[rottndog]

This is so unbelievably stupid....It's hard enough to man up a boat and keep it at sea as it is. This is just artificial stress created by pinheaded bureaucrats who have ZERO experience at sea.

This will do absolutely nothing to improve warfighting readiness. I believe it's intended to do the opposite.

[Richard Kimball]

A lot of businesses now have rules against “offensive scents” and include perfume and after shave. A lot of this came about after central air conditioning became the norm. In the old days, people opened their windows to let air in, and the building was ventilated. Now, many buildings recycle the same air over and over.

[rottndog]

But a submarine is akin to an airliner. The air is recirculated and the smoke permeates the entire boat. Many sailors have complained about this. On a long voyage this can be very irritating and affect the performance of the crew.

That's a load of crap....the air on a boat is in constant circulation, and is filtered. There are circ fans everywhere...in fact that's the first thing you hear when you climb down the ladder. I never smelled cigarette smoke on the boat...unless I was next to somebody smoking.

While I don't like breathing 2nd hand smoke myself, there are plenty of places on board where one could light up and not affect anyone else.

This issue is not about health, it's about political correctness and stupid people on a power trip. There are far more serious things to worry about on the boat.

[shempy]

Here is another from 1997: http://www.ooooe.net/article/S1079-2104(98)90207-4/abstract

[JouleZ]

“But cigarette smoke is quite common and is ubiquitous.”
_________________________________________________________

So is the smell of shiatt quite ubiquitous and, frankly, I’m sick of smelling it. I prefer the aroma of a natural tobacco. BTW, only 15% of people have the nerve to smoke in public anymore. Everyone takes a crap. I find those crappers who eat too much and stink up my air obnoxious.

I find your comparison ridiculous and think that your carbon foot-print should be measured by the amount of food you consume (see algore) versus the amount you crap out, which is only minus a few grams of H2O. Then there’s the flush, which uses more energy.

I’m still smoking and eating light while planting a lot of trees and a vegetable garden to off-set my CO2 and I’m way ahead. So, Pewwwww, I just blew a puff of cigarette smoke at you. And I’m still ahead in the game.