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Should the statue of liberty continue to be the symbol of America, to the world's nations? Not with the current immigration mess we are dealing with.
1 posted on 06/21/2010 7:52:13 AM PDT by pinochet
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To: pinochet

The statue did not come with that poem. It was added later..............


2 posted on 06/21/2010 7:53:57 AM PDT by Red Badger (No, Obama's not the Antichrist. He's just some guy in the neighborhood.............)
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To: pinochet

“I lift my lamp beside the golden door”

There is a door.


3 posted on 06/21/2010 7:54:50 AM PDT by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system.)
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To: pinochet
LEGAL = GOOD
ILLEGAL = BAD

Why is that so difficult?
5 posted on 06/21/2010 7:59:58 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: pinochet

The SoL is just a statue of Queen Semiramis (wife of Nimrod) on steroids.


7 posted on 06/21/2010 8:00:37 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: pinochet

The Statue of Liberty is just fine. That stupid poem can dumped in the circular file, though.


8 posted on 06/21/2010 8:00:50 AM PDT by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!)
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To: pinochet

The statue of Liberty was never intended to be an invitation.


9 posted on 06/21/2010 8:04:23 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: pinochet
yearning to breathe free

Free in the sense of freedom as conceived in the original American ideal (what we today would call old fashioned liberalism, which is a race-blind, class-blind meritocracy). "Send" is also figurative in this poem -- the governments in those places would usually find such "refuse" handy to enslave.

10 posted on 06/21/2010 8:04:41 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: pinochet

Good point.
This is no longer the 1870s when America needed millions more people to populate this growing country, when America had no significant foreign enemies.
We’re still will to accept those who are willing to work and be Americans, but not those who will be parasites and fifth-column enemies.


14 posted on 06/21/2010 8:06:46 AM PDT by Aroostook25
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To: pinochet
I have always wondered why we let the goofy French define our motto. Why do we let the Fed tell us what our “duty” is?

Why do we let anyone get away with calling us a “democracy”? Democracies always fail, because it allows a minority to over rule the majority, and the majority to over rule the minority. Examples, the few minority offended by religious displays in public, on the other side the majority demanding that an individual watch his/her body fat. Democracy's end in totalitarianism.

We are a democratic REPUBLIC. Yet D.C. has far over reached their jurisdiction abetted by weak governors and state houses that cede their authority to Washington jocking for a place at the Federal troth .

As far as I know, so far, no one has agreed to be governed by anything other than the Constitution of the United States. Now there is a throw the bums out attitude towards any politician who doesn't remember that fact.

15 posted on 06/21/2010 8:07:42 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: pinochet
We need a Ronald Reagan type figure in immigration reform.

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!! When President Reagan signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, he opened the floodgates to illegal immigration we experienced in the 1990's and 2000's. I know "real" conservatives refuse to acknowledge this stark fact, but it is a fact nevertheless. Go ahead, regurgitate all the excuses "real" conservatives make for this, one of the two biggest mistakes President Reagan made while in office. You will just prove once again that blind hyper partisanship is not just a leftist characteristic.

18 posted on 06/21/2010 8:13:34 AM PDT by Wolfstar
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To: pinochet

Calling something “Anti-American” implies a lot in denotation besides the conotation.

I think that from an historical perspective, we were a nation largely peopled by immigrants and these were sometimes poor, starving or un-propertied people of the various european nations. The Staute sybolizes that this is a land of liberty for the bulk of those who come here.

Australia has an entire portion of their history as a penal destination and realizes that new lives can be made by flawed or subjugated people. Georgia had some expelled people even at the founding — does that make the founding participation by Georgia un-american?

We didn’t form our nation to have people from other nations pushed off on us but our history is that such has happened and liberty has prevailed.


21 posted on 06/21/2010 8:15:48 AM PDT by KC Burke
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To: pinochet

It’s a poem, not a statement of immigration policy. Even back then, there were rules and regulations that had to be followed or they put your butt on the first ship back where you came from.


25 posted on 06/21/2010 8:52:21 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Liberalism is the art of taking what works, breaking it, and then blaming conservatives.)
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To: pinochet
It reminds me of the line from the movie Stripes:

The hell's the matter with you? Stupid! We're all very different people. We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans, with a capital 'A', huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog.

The problem isn't the Statue of Liberty, or the poem, or even immigration. America was built by the cast-off immigrants who came here "yearning to be free," wanted to have the opportunity to create a better life for themselves and their children, and believed America was that shining city on the hill. The problem is what government and society has become. We are now governed by those that hate America and everything it stood for, voted in by those who hate America and everything it stood for and now attract immigrants who feel the same. Gone are the days that America was the land of opportunity and self reliance; where America was the beacon of hope for the rest of the world. Here are the days where America is the world's villain who needs to be put in her place; where self-reliance is frowned upon and rugged individualism must be regulated and controlled and drummed out of children before they grow up to be menaces to a progressive society. To blame the Statue of Liberty or the poem or even immigration is to fail to see the true problem. We should be willing to accept immigrants who want to be "American" in the sense that was thought of at the time the Statue was erected. We should be able to reject without being called racist those who want to live off the government largess, who refuse to assimilate, and who spend their time chanting "death to America." Liberalism is the problem. Those that wish to remake this country in their progressive mold are using immigration as a tool to further their cause. Defeat liberalism and the type of immigrants coming here will be those "yearning to be free" that made this country great in the first place.

26 posted on 06/21/2010 8:55:48 AM PDT by Armando Guerra
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To: pinochet
Your questioning opens an interesting item for discussion, but let's not overlook the fact that we are all the descendants of the majority of those who left the "Old World" to seek liberty and opportunity. Many were poor and indentured themselves to others who already had come to the New World, sometimes for years, just to be able to have freedom.

You wrote:

"'...Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me...'

"The statue of liberty advertises America as a garbage dump, where the rest of the world can dump their "wretched refuse". It tells all the world's nations, that they can gather up all their homeless people, their poor, their lepers, their insane, their bums, their welfare moochers, and their criminals, put them on ships, and dump them on America's shores."

The term "wretched refuse,"as used by Lazarus, however, applied to persons who came through the "door" in the legitimate manner prescribed by law, and Lazarus's use of that term seems to have been simply a dramatic way to recognize something we overlook today.

Let's remember that wherever there are oppressive regimes, past or present, all who disagree with the ideology of the political class are deemed to be expendable, therefore, "refuse." If we doubt that, let's read and listen to the rhetoric of the Far Left in America in 2010 concerning the individuals who lead or make up the TEA Party movement.

When the Speaker of the U. S. House of Representatives shudders at the thought of them and calls them "Astro Turf," and unmentionable and vile comments are made about a former governor and outspoken opponent of Administration and Congressional policies, and when Congresswoman Bachman and others are treated with disrectful personal disdain, to say nothing of the Administration's disregard of the opinions of ordinary Americans, then perhaps American citizens who oppose them have become "wretched refuse" by their descriptions of us.

Let's not cast out the beautiful symbolism of Lazarus' words, written at a time when people came through a legal process that built this nation into the greatest on earth, simply because we are looking through a glass that has been clouded by illegal immigration and poor government policy.

America remains that "shining city on a hill," for millions, and Bartholdi's statue is constructed to reflect life, liberty and law.

It is time to bring America's reality back into line with "the Lady's" beautiful symbolism--not to throw out the symbol.

28 posted on 06/21/2010 9:06:49 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: pinochet

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Emma Lazarus, 1883

I think that when you read the whole poem, it casts a different light on the promise of America. Europe’s cast-offs (a.k.a. “wretched refuse”)were the raw materials of American Exceptionalism. We should continue to welcome those who wast to be assimilated, who want a better life.


29 posted on 06/21/2010 9:34:06 AM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: pinochet
Only about 500,000 legal immigrants entered the U.S. in the whole of the 1930s. About a million entered in the 1940s, including World War II refugees. By contrast, of course, the U.S. accepted over 1.5 million immigrants, counting only legals, in the single year of 1990 alone. >

"... even throughout the early history of the U.S.," admits Julian Simon, "immigrants did not arrive with less education than natives; "Early English settlers included Royalist gentry who went to Virginia, like George Washington's ancestors, and Puritan gentry who went to New England, as Oliver Cromwell and his family once planned to do. And, whatever Yankees may have thought, the Irish immigrants of the 1850s were not the bottom of the barrel. Three-quarters of them were literate; their fares were commonly paid by established extended families.

Hill (1970, p.31) calculated a measure of the "labor force quality" of immigrants relative to that of natives, roughly equivalent to a percentage. The estimates are: 1870 - .97 (e.g. in that year immigrants had 97% the labor force "value" of natives); 1880 - .99; 1890 - .95; 1900 - .97; 1910 - .95; 1920 - .93. And according to Hill's (1970; 1975) analysis of the wages and occupations in censuses and other data sources, covering the period 1840-1920 but with special emphasis on the decade just before the turn of the century ...almost all the empirical evidence leads one to a conclusion in direct opposition to that reached in most of the historical literature...immigrants, instead of being an underpaid, exploited group, generally held an economic position that compared very favorably to that of the native born members of the society (1975, p48).

Can you say the same today about Mexican or Guatemalans? NO. Not even second or third generation. We are importing poverty.

30 posted on 06/21/2010 9:36:58 AM PDT by anglian
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To: pinochet
"Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

This part of the poem is from where your argument, and the arguments of the open borders, amnesty folks collide with the sentiments of the poem - "YEARNING TO BREATHE FREE".

Those who came from Cuba WERE "yearning to breathe free".

The vast majority of those who illegally walk across our southern border, or intentionally over-stay a once-legal visa, MOST OFTEN come from countries that have as much political freedom as do we in the U.S.

The fact that their nation's political class and business culture do not provide the opportunities they are looking for IS NOT due to a lack of liberty, a lack of the ability to "breathe free"; but simple internal failure of their nation to foster the conditions that will provide the opportunities they seek. The sentiments behind the statue and the poem did not have such persons in mind. THEY ARE "FREE" already.

The sentiments of the statue of liberty poem are, in this age, most often taken out of the context of their time, and used in a way that fails to emphasize LIBERTY, and those who do not have it and are seeking it - LIBERTY - as the light of liberty, to which the statue would stand as an emblem of, to the "huddled masses", YEARNING TO BE FREE, from the shackles of non-democratic systems; not simply escaping adverse economic conditions of their own peoples democratic failures.

34 posted on 06/21/2010 10:50:10 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: pinochet; All
In doing some genealogy research on a family line, this information came to my attention concerning the man who printed our nation's Declaration of Independence. Of special note is his advice to family members in Ireland about the opportunity for freedom in America.

At the web site of PRONI, The Public Records of Northern Ireland - - can be found inspiring words about Irish emigrants to the U. S.

Of special note are the words of John Dunlap, an emigrant, who was responsible for the printing of the new nation's Declaraiton of Independence.

On 12 May 1785, he wrote from Philadelphia to his brother-in-law, Robert Rutherford, Strabane, Co. Tyrone, extolling the advantages of the New World and referred to his brother, James Dunlap, who was likewise in America:

"... my brother James left this for Kentucky a few weeks ago; I expect him back in the summer; then perhaps he may take a trip to Ireland. The account he gives of the soil is pleasing but the difficulty of going to it from this is great; indeed the distance is not less than a thousand miles. I was there last year and must confess that although the journey is a difficult one I did not begrudge the time and labour it cost me. We are told the parliament of Ireland means to lay restrictions on those who want to come from that country to this; time will tell whether or no this will answer the purpose they intend. People with a family advanced in life find great difficulties in emigration but the young men of Ireland who wish to be free and happy should leave it and come here as quick as possible; there is no place in the world where a man meets so rich a reward for good conduct and industry as in America ... "

Also excerpted from the PRONI site is the following observation from the DUNLAP/DELAP PAPERS at: http://www.proni.gov.uk/introduction__dunlap_delap_t1336.pdf

"John Dunlap's is not an untypical life story of many who 'went west' from Co. Tyrone in the 18th century to make a new life and create a new country to which they then encouraged and assisted others to migrate. One went and succeeded and therefore others followed. By the time he died, on 27 November 1812, aged 66, John Dunlap had amassed a large fortune and had subscribed £4,000 in 1780 to the National Bank formed to supply the American Army, and he held 98,000 acres in Virginia and the adjoining counties of Kentucky. He also owned the land on which Utica, Ohio, stands.

"He had played his part in military affairs during the War of Independence, as a founder in 1774 of the 1st Troop of Philadelphia City Cavalry; as a cornet he accompanied this command in the campaign of 1776-1777, taking part in actions at Princeton and Trenton. After the war, from 1789 to 1792, he was a member of the Common Council of Philadelphia. In 1812 he was buried at Christ Church, Philadelphia.

"The site of his birth at Meetinghouse Street, Strabane, is marked by a plaque erected by Strabane Urban District Council in 1965."

35 posted on 06/21/2010 12:00:52 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: pinochet

Bump for later


39 posted on 06/23/2010 2:37:43 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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