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One Month after McDonald - The state of the Second Amendment.
NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE ^ | July 29, 2010 | David Rittgers

Posted on 07/29/2010 12:54:56 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: RKBA Democrat

I think I must have misunderstood your earlier post. It sounded as if you were saying that it was OK if no results were produced under the “NRA” name, because their donations enabled results from state groups the donors might not necessarily associate with the NRA.


21 posted on 07/30/2010 9:33:36 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Hugin

Maybe and maybe not. If you picked the right cases, a circuit court opinion might have settled the issue.

Mr Kates used to becomeshort of patience with those who wanted the “one big case” when we had lost so much ground in a piecemeal fashion. What we lost would have to be taken back one piece at a time, piece by piece.

One of the reasons we lost so mich, as Mr. Kates saw it, was that too many RKBA cases came out of compromised litigants, ie criminals. Judges tend to look down on claims of “I have a right to own a gun” by criminals. One of the very first things the NRA refused to do was qualify a plaintiff or class who was/were squeeky clean. This is what Gura did very well.


22 posted on 07/30/2010 3:25:28 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: marktwain
I loaned a copy of his first book to a Nobel Prize winner who had written an anti-freedom editorial in a Madison Wisconsin paper. He read the book, and when I got it back, he said he would stop offering his opinion on subjects he knew nothing about.

LOL! What field was the Nobel Prize for, one of the hard sciences?

23 posted on 07/31/2010 4:19:10 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: Hugin
-- And remember, Alito wrote Heller. --

I think you did an inadvertent mix 'n' match. The majority in Heller was written by Scalia. Alito wrote for the majority in McDonald.

24 posted on 07/31/2010 4:25:41 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: neverdem
“LOL! What field was the Nobel Prize for, one of the hard sciences?”

Chemistry or Biochemistry, I believe. It was 30+ years ago, at the University of Wisconsin.

25 posted on 07/31/2010 5:59:10 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: wastedyears
"I don’t need judges to tell me what “arms” encompasses. From a one-inch folding blade to a rail-mounted howitzer, it’s all protected under the Second Amendment, NO MATTER WHAT some judge might say."

No, the Militia Act of 1791 defined the arms protected by the 2nd Amendment as being non-crew-served.

A Howitzer is crew-served. A submachine-gun is not. Same for nukes, crew-served.

If the arm/weapon is crew-served, then government can control it.

Clearly ordinary firearms are not crew-served.

Thus goes the law...

26 posted on 07/31/2010 6:07:37 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: NVDave

Kates is brilliant. His strategy needs to be applied across the Bill of Rights.

Think Kelo, think ESA, etc.


27 posted on 07/31/2010 9:21:15 PM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: Southack

It’s a stupid law.


28 posted on 07/31/2010 10:42:04 PM PDT by wastedyears (The Founders revolted for less.)
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To: 1010RD

He is. I learned so much about Con-law while listening to Mr. Kates. He’s a quirky fellow, but exceedingly smart. When he starts laying out the law, the decisions, the reasoning behind some of these SCOTUS cases, he does it in a way that we laymen can easily understand, but he doesn’t talk down or diminish the point. In just a few months of meeting with him and a couple of other RKBA lawyers, I learned a ton about ConLaw, how the SCOTUS operates (ie, that the verbal presentation is mostly for show and to allow the justices to torment the lawyers presenting the case), that each Circuit Court has a reputation within the SCOTUS (eg, the Ninth has one and it isn’t necessarily good, esp. on death penalty cases), and so on.

On top of everything he knows about the SCOTUS and federal law, he can start rattling off state supreme court decisions all over the country on the area of law he’s working on. His knowledge on the cases and causes he’s fought is like a walking law library, and his reasoning on how to attack some of these losses of freedoms makes a LOT of sense. It also would be a bunch of work, but nothing worthwhile comes easily. After learning more about what it takes to put on a case that will go to the SCOTUS, I learned the importance of “framing” the case correctly from Mr. Kates - and it has proven to be the deciding factor now in both Heller and McDonald.

As Alan Gura has shown, Don Kates’ strategy *works*.


29 posted on 07/31/2010 11:24:37 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Southack

That is my understanding as well. The “...and bear” words come into play here. A single man cannot “bear” a howitzer into action. The understanding of the contemporary law at the time (1790’s) was swords, cutlass, knife, dagger, pistol, rifle, shotgun and musket, ie, arms that one man can carry and deploy.


30 posted on 07/31/2010 11:26:32 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: NVDave

Aye. Crew-served weapons like ships of war and cannons were entirely up to the government to control or not, while non-crew-served weapons are entirely up to the citizenry.

Government can’t touch them.


31 posted on 08/01/2010 12:47:20 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: wastedyears

No, you’re just making stupid comments. Probably to be provacative for whatever motive.

The Militia Act of 1791 has stood the test of time. Back then, the government could regulate ships of war and cannons; today, the government can regulate who gets to possess a nuke or not.

For a law to survive so many centuries, it had to have been written properly. Instead of naming ships and cannons, the law was written by someone who grasped that new technology was possible. Hence, the right for government to control “crew-served” weapons instead of more specific “ships and cannons.”

It was genius. Of course, people today are substantially less smart. Society has been dumbed down. Today it takes lamakers 2700 pages to mandate that people buy health insurance.

Now there’s a stupid law. The healthcare law will vanish; it won’t stand the test of time. In contrast, the Militia Act will be around as long as the U.S.

...more amazingly, the Militia Act let’s everyone know what is legal conceptually: a one-man weapon is the public’s...a crew-served weapon is the government’s to control (gov can OK it or ban it or anything in between).


32 posted on 08/01/2010 12:54:19 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

Sec. 10. And be it further enacted, That this act shall continue and be in force, for and during the term of two years, and from thence to the end of the next session of Congress thereafter, and no longer.

Original cut-off date.

Second half:

And whereas sundry corps of artillery, cavalry and infantry now exist in several of the said states, which by the laws, customs, or usages thereof, have not been incorporated with, or subject to the general regulation of the militia.

Sounds like they didn't want cannons government-owned.

Looks like they got rid of the original cut-off date. Still don't see anything about crew-served in this one.

33 posted on 08/01/2010 9:13:17 AM PDT by wastedyears (The Founders revolted for less.)
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To: marktwain
Chemistry or Biochemistry, I believe.

Thank you. I had a hope that it wasn't.

34 posted on 08/01/2010 11:22:02 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

I was heartened by his ability to overcome his prejudices by looking at facts, and ability prized in the hard sciences.


35 posted on 08/01/2010 11:53:39 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: neverdem
"Yet another Alan Gura lawsuit is a challenge to North Carolina’s emergency-powers statutes. In essence, whenever a state of emergency is declared at any level of government in the Tarheel State, firearms sales or transfers are outlawed, as is carrying a firearm off one’s own premises (even for those with concealed-handgun permits). That doesn’t sound unreasonable at first blush..."

Huh?

It sounds totally unreasonable! - During an emergency is when all citizens should be armed at all times.

The purpose of that ridiculous statute is obvious: to prevent people from traveling with guns during emergency evacuations. - This has to fall.

36 posted on 08/01/2010 6:53:06 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: NVDave
It is NO accident that Gura went after DC first, then Chicago second.

I spoke with Dick Heller a couple of years ago, and in fact, Gura and Heller's plan had unfolded over the course of the past 20 years, when Gura and Heller decided that Heller ought to get a job working security in DC and work his way up to armed security, to lay a foundation for the Second Amendment case based on the handgun which Heller had refused on principle to register in 1976.

37 posted on 08/02/2010 3:39:11 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Southack
If the arm/weapon is crew-served, then government can control it.

I think if you're going to post such an outlandish and unprecedented claim, you should back it up with cites.

And before you attempt it, note that just because an individual citizen is required by law to provide himself with a bare minimum of armament and supplies doesn't mean that this is also a "maximum" permitted outfitting.

The Constitutional provision for "Letters of Marque and Reprisal" would be meaningless if a private citizen could legitimately be forbidden to own a battleship.

38 posted on 08/02/2010 3:45:15 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel

Most excellent.


39 posted on 08/02/2010 4:14:36 AM PDT by NVDave
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