Posted on 09/27/2010 9:24:36 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
That would negate all the wonderful savings the MBA’s obtained by outsourcing the construction of these things to Japan and Korea.
So it ain’t gonna happen.
Ingerity of the road is right!
That’s the first thing that crossed my mind: the asphalt roads will be destroyed, crushed to pieces by that much weight.
Especially in the fall and spring seasons.
Huge loads like this in Nevada are often seasonally restricted to prevent travel during times when the ground is freezing or thawing. I’m very surprised to see that Idaho doesn’t put in the same level of restrictions - then again, I doubt that US 12 has seen the sorts of loads associated with transporting things like a Cat 797 too often on that corridor.
That won't be allowed either. Think of all the horse turds to complain about and of course, there is the PETA pests and the cruelty whine. Can't have poor horsey toting or pulling.
Is the heaviest single item that has to be on one of these transports more than about 113490kg (yes, the load on each transport is projected to be more, but supposedly each one comprises several pieces). There are Boeing 747-based military air transports that can carry a load this large. Why can’t something like that be brought into play. As a bonus, the loads do not need to be shipped 3/4 of the way around the globe on a westward course when they could take a shorter trip on an eastward course.
I don’t think that they are talking about Canada. They are talking about a refinery in Billings, Montana. The equipment that goes to Canada goes through the Great Lakes.
How ‘bout we go the old-school method and just build it on site?
What are you going to propose next? We outsource the building of bridges, canals and roadways and ship them into the US? Why stop at the capabilities of a 747? The Russians have larger heavy-lift aircraft, why not outsource the transport of the modules to the Russkies?
There are some projects that just need to be build in place. Period. Some ass of a MBA made a decision “Well, it is SO much cheaper offshore that we’ll just buy access to the Lewiston Port through political connections and then run roughshod over the locals to truck it up US 12...” No thought to logistics, PR or impact to local communities.
They could have bought the steel from Korea, India or China and shipped that in on conventional trucks and built the projects in place, no wide load permits required. They could have bought steel in North America and shipped it in.
But no, they decided to try to crank the last little bit of expense out of the project by fabricating off-shore and shipping the modules over a ridiculous route inland.
They’re morons. Plain and simple.
Sometimes in engineering, I would have to remind management that some problems really had very simple solutions. They didn’t conform to the latest MBA fad, but the simple solutions were proven, workable and extremely simple to schedule. MBA’s still didn’t like them.
Even if they did continue the shipping for a year, they would not actually close the road. They would have to construct turn outs to stop the traffic and let the load pass. You have to realize, there isn’t much traffic in this area.
As for the out sourcing, you had better get used it. We no longer have the skilled labor to do the work and what we have is all union and way too expensive. Refineries are on such a tight margin of profit, that they cannot afford the union demands.
I read somewhere that a small boat building company that built tugs on the Great Lakes was going out of business because they couldn’t find enough top level welders to build their boats. You don’t want bad welds in boats or refineries.
If you don’t want bad welds in boats or refineries, you don’t want the welding done off-shore. If you’d like to live next to a pipeline, refinery or other chemical processing plant build with third world welds, I invite you to do so. I’ve seen third world welding, and I want nothing to do with it. I’ve also seen third world steel, and I want even less to do with that.
We have plenty of skilled labor and welders in the US. They require payment for what they do. It isn’t an easy job, but it is a critical job. The guys and gals who are really good welders are well worth their money - you don’t need to air-arc out their crap and do it over. It is done once for the ages.
Dave, the local refinery has been trying to recruit welders for a large construction project for the past year. They are having to bring them in from all over.
Yes, well, the oil/gas industry is in a building boom. They went for years without building many pipelines or refineries, and now with CBM and NG exploration and development throughout the west, there are pipe welders on jobs all over the place, pulling down good money.
The welders are out there, companies are competing for the talent and now they’re going to have to pay up for welders. I’ve been in two community college welding programs, taking courses, and there are tons of young people taking up welding. They know the money is out there. Often as the “old fart” in the program, I’m telling them to not waste time on nonsensical twaddle like liberal arts BA’s and go “make something” and then go make some money.
The kids aren’t stupid, they can see where the money is. They’re starting to respond.
There are structural welders being turned loose of commercial real estate jobs all over the place - all these guys need is a quick turn through pipe or boiler certification courses (many of which are held in the union halls), and they’re going to be available. These guys also know the money is out there. Pipe welders in the west are pulling down $30/hour, plus $20 for rig rental. Not bad money, if you ask me.
But the oil industry wants to complain now that there aren’t enough welders to go around. Wellllll.... who decided to put off their expansion for as long as possible, only to ramp up expansion in such a short time? It wasn’t the welders. It was management. There are consequences to bad management decisions, and having to compete for a limited talent pool is one of those consequences.
This is what happens when management sticks their heads up their posteriors and doesn’t plan properly. I’ve seen it time and time again. What this country needs more than anything else is for corporate management to be more accountable to shareholders - and shareholders to hold management accountable. The trouble is, too many mutual funds holding huge blocks of stock just rubber-stamp the proxy votes for boards and management at the annual meetings.
The reason that there have been no new refineries has nothing to do with stock holders or management and everything to do with the permit process and regulations. It can take ten years to get through the permit process under positive circumstances, in states like California, it just won’t happen.
We need energy independence and shale oil has great potential to do that, but it takes a little give and take on the part of the unions and the special interests. Green energy is a flop, so we need to get moving on oil and gas.
It’s a fact that Asian steel and probably welds may not be all that great, but the fact is that oil refineries are not profit making propositions. When regulators, unions and special interests get involved to hinder the projects, the oil companies will need to cut costs wherever possible. It’s like biting the hand that feeds them when unions join forces with the tribes to hurt the oil companies.
I’m just thinking of trying to salvage the situation as best as possible, instead of turning a bunch of already welded assemblies into scrap metal that never leaves Korea. If the road will not work, then the assemblies might be flown in on huge transports. In the future local assembly can be looked into. However I’d want to hear Korea’s side of the story. Maybe they have specialized machinery which can make better assemblies than site-building techniques can. It’s a little like the battle between site built homes and prefab homes.
Is there any reason to believe that modern South Korean quality is any worse than, say, Japan’s?
Depends on the type of steel and processing. At best, Korea mills could produce something as good as Japanese steel. eg, some of POSCO’s technology came from Nippon Steel.
At worst... they’re trying to compete with the Chinese and Indians on price, with all that entails.
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