Posted on 10/05/2010 6:01:36 AM PDT by Kaslin
The "Long Gray Line" is bringing pressure on the Vegas department following Erik Scott's death in a hail of bullets.
It was a foregone conclusion that a coroner’s inquest in Las Vegas would find three Metro police officers justified in gunning down Erik Scott in a hail of bullets outside of a crowded Costco on July 10, even though five of the seven bullets hit him from behind, and at least one appeared to have been fired while Scott lay prone, dead or dying on the ground.
Police were called to the store after an employee described Scott as both armed and acting as if he were under the influence of narcotics. As Scott and his girlfriend emerged from the store along with dozens of other shoppers, he was confronted by a trio of officers with weapons already drawn. Scott was identified by a Costco employee, and seconds later, Scott lay dead on the ground. These are the facts of the case that are not in dispute.
What is very much in dispute is whether or not Costco employees unnecessarily escalated the threat, whether the store chain’s unclear policies on customers carrying weapons and their employee training contributed to the events that led to Scott’s death, and whether or not police officers violated Erik Scott’s civil rights when they killed him in a confrontation that some argue was little more than an ambush or assassination.
Erik Scott’s family is expected to file a civil case against Costco, the Metro police, and the individual officers over his death, but that isn’t the only action being called for because of this incident. Metro has raised the ire of the the Long Gray Line — Erik Scott’s fellow graduates of the United States Military Academy.
Sources have provided PJM with copies of communications between members of the group. Alumni in the threaded discussion seem almost universally suspect of the coroner’s inquest process used in Las Vegas, where prosecutors and law enforcement control the witnesses called and the questions asked, and disallow cross-examination. Since 1976, law enforcement officers have been in front of the coroner’s inquest more than 200 times, and none has resulted in criminal charges being filed against an officer for even the most controversial shootings.
One alum wrote to the president of one of the larger West Point Society chapters:
I don’t know if you are aware of the tragic shooting of Eric Scott ‘94 in Las Vegas not long ago. It looks more and more like a police screw up and cover up on top of that. We are trying to bring as much political pressure to bear, as possible, to make sure the “truth” comes out.
Another suggested that members bring the Scott case to the attention of West Point and Naval Academy graduates in Congress: Rep. John Shimkus, Rep. Joe Sestak, Rep. Geoff Davis, Rep. Brett Guthrie, Senator Jack Reed, Senator John McCain, and Senator Jim Webb, and well as Nevada’s Congressional delegation, plus Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy and Chairman of the House Judicial Committee John Conyers. (Interestingly enough, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s name was never mentioned.)
One of the strongest comments openly suggested that the Metropolitan Police Department should be considered as an adversary:
I think that we, as a society, need to take a more active stance. This needs to go to the AOG. Remember the words of “The Corps.” We all took the same oath the Erik Scott did many years ago, on the Plain “to preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic.” The abuse of due process, not only for Erik, but all of the others who didn’t have a voice is an attack on the Constitution.
There were at least three of us at the vigil last night. I think that we need to have a much more visible presence to show our support of a member of The Long Gray Line.
Another graduate called Metro PD an “out of control police force,” a characterization that seems to match up with the analysis of the shooting conducted by Mike McDaniel, a former police officer and SWAT operator (also my co-blogger at Confederate Yankee) who recently analyzed the audio of the 911 call and the police radio transcripts. Troubling bursts of static in the Metro radio traffic at key points indicate that these communications need to be examined, and the lack of in-car camera footage from the multiple police cars is also odd — to put it mildly. This is on top of the fact that Costco’s cameras seemingly malfunctioned in the days before the shooting, meaning that none of the four cameras pointed at the scene of the shooting recorded the event according to Metro and Costco — the two entities that have the most to lose from disclosure of such evidence.
A letter composed by one of the officers has been submitted to Thomas E. Perez, assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Division in the Department of Justice, outlining “an on-going pattern of police misconduct” by authorities in Las Vegas and citing 63 officer-involved shootings since 2005.
Eric Scott’s death may have been ruled justifiable during the coroner’s inquest, but the pending civil trial to be filed by his family, and the specter of a federal civil rights case being filed against the department, means that the spotlight on the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and its leadership will only get brighter.
>>supposed shot from the grassy knoll would have had to magically pass through the first lady’s head.
>
>You mean like the ‘single bullet theory’ bullet that magically passed through Senator Connelly, changed directions several times, and then went through Kennedy’s head ?
Speaking of magic bullets, at about 6:58...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDBxlOfJnoQ
Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand why people think the single bullet theory is crap, and the whole “found on a gurney” thing is suspicious no matter what other evidence there is. That said...
Note that section and the stuff in the next one down about how the analyst found evidence of the bullet strike and Kennedy and Connally reacting in the pertinent frames of the Zapbruder film.
Asecond shooter on the knoll is impossible, a shot fired by Oswald that hit both men is possible, ergo...
I think Erik Scott was a good man with a troubled life, who would have been dead from prescription drug abuse before the age of 40 without detoxification. Since his girlfriend most likely was aiding his drug abuse and his father was in denial, his only chance for survival would have been intervention by the authorities, which was already in progress at the time he died.
>You also need to take into account the needless proliferation of police & prosecutors - far beyond the needs of the populace.
I do, but that’s another topic IMO; and [at least] tangentially connected to the proliferation of ‘regulations’ & felonies.
>The Founders would be entirely unfamiliar with the notion of more & more & more police & prosecutors are necessary, with an unlimited taxpayer-funded checkbook to draw upon for salaries, investigations, prosecutions & retirement pensions.
Ah, but this system allows for bureaucracy to be needed as in the upkeep/maintenance of criminal records. Consider this: if there were no “three strikes”-style policies, no upgrading of misdemeanors to felonies [esp with multiple offenses], and no extra-internment punishments (i.e. the dis-allowance of firearms from felons who have served their sentence) then what is the need for criminal records to be kept?
(ie if every infraction of the law was viewed, legally, as the same as the first infraction & the serving of the sentence “wiped the slate clean” insofar as the Justice system was concerned, then there wouldn’t be any need for ‘criminal records’ beyond the active-case/”wanted for...”-type.)
>One further thought - the catch-and-release mentality in our current legal system (once again, a mentality that the Founders would NOT comprehend) might be construed by a cynical critic as a thinly-veiled effort to keep business brisk...
That is one mentality that certainly is plausible.
There is another one [too], which is that the practice encourages the “limitation” of rights due to so many people being ‘on probation’ or ‘administrative holding of charges’ (as is common for traffic violations) or [as stated above] the barring of rights to ex-felons.
If it’s not intentional then the assault on the rights of freemen resultant from the practices should have been challenged years ago by the lawmakers.... though things like “we have to pass it to find out what’s in it” seriously indicate that the lawmakers are more concerned with their own positions of power than the responsibility/accountability that such positions [should] demand.
>(time to test your sense of humor)
Appropriately warped...
Try this: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2602095/posts?page=14#14
Was there a round in the chamber, or not? I know the LV Metro PD has been kind of busy digging up dirt on Erik for the last three months, so maybe they haven't had a chance to check the chamber of Erik's pistol to see if there was a round in it or not...
“Mosher complied with the laws of Nevada and his training based on the information he had.”
WRONG! Mosher ignored the most important evidence - WHAT HIS EYES SAW!
By every account, Scott was leaving quietly. Not one witness says Scott was acting in a threatening or hostile manner.
To go from “Is he the suspect?” to opening fire in <6 seconds, Mosher HAD to ignore the most important piece of evidence - what he saw: a man walking out of Costco, no gun in hand, no weaving around, no shouting, no panic among the customers - NOTHING to indicate he was dangerous.
SIX SECONDS before Mosher fired, he couldn’t even tell who was the suspect! And the physical evidence leaves no doubt that Scott had no intention of killing anyone - gun in holster, carried condition 1, hammer down.
So how did Mosher get from “No one stands out” to “I must shoot” in less than 6 seconds? Here is a hint - it wasn’t Scott. Scott didn’t have time. If you were walking out of a store feeling innocent and law abiding, and a cop shouted “Get down!”, would you be on your knees in 2 seconds?
If not, then a Nevada cop “compl[ying] with the laws of Nevada and his training based on the information he ha[s]” can shoot you dead. Justifiably. And as a number of LAPD officers have said before, they can say, “I thought he/she had a gun...”
Again, I haven’t gone back and tried to confirm the time line...but IF it is correct, then I doubt Scott ever got the gun in its holster pointed towards the cop. It takes me 2 seconds on a good day to get the holster off, and 2 seconds was all he had. Yes, I know there is witness testimony that he pointed a gun at the cop. I also know that most accident witnesses say they saw the plane in flames, even when there was no fire. Witnesses, like cops, sometimes see what they expect to see, and no one expects to see a cop shoot a man with a holstered gun - but Scott’s gun was found in the holster.
” I am at the point where seeing a cop does not make me feel safer anymore”
Somehow that saddens me.
Mike McDaniel’s The Erik Scott Case: Update 5 (The Future) (October 5, 2010) http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/306510.php
Looks like he came to the same conclusion I did. Glad to see it. I think there are three things the lawyers will hammer home in the civil case:
1 - Gun in holster, hammer down.
2 - 6 seconds from “Where is the suspect?” to shots fired.
3 - Any half sane person can come up with a better way of handling a situation like this, and the outcome would almost certainly have been different - hence liability.
No one ever asked if there was a round in the chamber. I never carry with a round in the chamber, for safety purposes. Why do you suppose the question never came up at the inquest? I would think that Metro would have been ALL OVER IT if there had been a round chambered.
You'll notice that Moonman62 doesn't want to talk about it. All he wants to talk about is how Erik pointed a gun at a cop. Fat lot of good pointing a gun at a cop will do you if you're not locked & loaded...
Especially if you have 6 seconds before the first police hollowpoint blows your heart apart.
There's going to be a LOT of unpleasant questions asked at the federal trial.
And the physical evidence leaves no doubt that Scott had no intention of killing anyone - gun in holster, carried condition 1, hammer down.
You won't give up with the 20/20 hindsight will you? Based on what Mosher knew, Scott was just as likely to take a bystander as a shield and start shooting if he was approached with your method of courageous restraint and politeness.
Again, I haven’t gone back and tried to confirm the time line...but IF it is correct, then I doubt Scott ever got the gun in its holster pointed towards the cop.
IF you ever confirm your time line, then I will be interested in your theories derived from it.
Yes, I know there is witness testimony that he pointed a gun at the cop. I also know that most accident witnesses say they saw the plane in flames, even when there was no fire.
There was conflicting witness testimony. However, after six days of testimony, the jury unanimously decided in less than two hours that the shooting was justified. I'll leave it to you to determine which witnesses they found the most credible.
Witnesses, like cops, sometimes see what they expect to see, and no one expects to see a cop shoot a man with a holstered gun - but Scott’s gun was found in the holster.
The holster and gun were found on the ground no longer clipped to Scott's rear waistband where he should have left them.
Was there a round in the chamber? Or has Las Vegas Metro PD been too busy for the last three months to find that out?
Most CCW people don't carry a round in the chamber because it's dangerous. Why don't you or Metro want to talk about that?
Erik Scott could have pointed a 90mm recoilless rifle at Mosher, but if it wasn't loaded, it was harmless.
Pretending that Erik Scott's gun was loaded is lying.
Quit pretending that Erik Scott's gun had a round in the chamber, unless you know for a fact that it did.
If his gun was NOT locked & loaded, then Mosher is guilty of manslaughter. If there was a round in the chamber, Metro would have been screaming it from the rooftops.
You and Metro are no better than the Clintonites. "It's just about sex" - never mind the perjury, obstruction & witness-tampering.
"It's just about Erik Scott pointing a gun at a police officer" - never mind that the gun probably didn't have a round in the chamber, meaning that it couldn't hurt anyone.
Me too.
What’s the matter, Moonman - Erik Scott’s unloaded gun got your tongue?
dang shark, you made me go there...8^}
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LVPD needs to be disbanded, and all members permanently blackballed from any public or security employment.
Let the Sheriff take over.
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dude, get some kneepads and a napkin...
> “Remember that the hearing only tells one side of the story.”
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And remember one more thing:
Las Vegas is the organized crime capital of planet Earth.
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