Posted on 11/15/2010 11:27:57 PM PST by Neil E. Wright
An interpretation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that pistol grip shotguns are not shotguns has created an unforeseen legal liability for owners of such firearms. ATF’s Nov. 2009 FFL Newsletter declared:
Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example, firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.
Here’s another wrinkle, from Mike Vanderboegh at Sipsey Street Irregulars:
An October 27, 2010, letter from the Firearms Technology Branch ruled that such a firearm, with a 17" barrel and 26-1/4" overall length, was not subject to the National Firearms Act.
You can click here to read the letter.
That would seem to indicate there’s no issue with violating National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) requirements, right? No worries if you own one, or want to buy one…?
Not so fast. If the pistol grip firearms are not “shotguns,” what are they?
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
The bore is less than the 1/2” diameter specified in the article. A .50 caliber would fall inside these specs though.
Yeah, I don’t know why you couldn’t put a shoulder stock on your .44 mag, other than it being collapsable, that’s a no-no for any sort of public carry.
Alternative if you really want to go farther downrange with your .44, get a Henry rifle chambered in .44 mag.
Take a wooden dowell and slip it down your barrel to the breach, mark at the end of the barrel and measure. I’ve been told this is how BATF determines barrel length.
Nope, it’s a pistol chambered in .45 Long Colt. It has a rifled barrel, a rotating cylinder, it’s design was intended for the gun to be fired from the hand.
By design, .410 shot shells may be fired through this pistol, hence the length of the cylinder to handle the longer shell length of the .410.
Inversely, I wouldn’t suggest you start firing .45 Colts through your .410 shotgun.
IMHO, the only people who would actually lay down money for one of these things has never been in a gunfight in their entire life, certainly not with a shotgun. One could certainly send a lot of ammo downrange with these, unfortunately you probably didn’t put much in the center mass area.
There is a very good reason why a 12 gauge shotgun has a shoulder stock, it kicks harder than Jackie Chan.
If you need a weapon to knock over a liquor store, this is your gun. If you need one to save your life, a Remington 870 with a 18” tactical barrel is very hard to beat especially if you mount a magazine extension allowing you to carry 7 instead of 5. Personally, I load mine with with 00 buck and slugs, every other round.
thats the way it *was*...now that millions are in circulation and the vast majority of owners will never know about the 'ruling', the wrong address no-knock brigade will have lots of justification, once theyre inside and wipe the dust off the shotty in the closet...
So is my pistol grip shotgun now illegal?
Isn’t there something in a government document, probably one that has been superceded by decisions by judges, about Congress shall enact no ex post facto laws.
Silly me. I did some checking and found that the judges decided very early on that ex post facto was de facto dead on arrival.
In U.S. Constitutional Law, the definition of what is ex post facto is more limited. The first definition of what exactly constitutes an ex post facto law is found in Calder v Bull (3 US 386 [1798]), in the opinion of Justice Chase:
1st. Every law that makes an action done before the passing of the law, and which was innocent when done, criminal; and punishes such action. 2d. Every law that aggravates a crime, or makes it greater than it was, when committed. 3d. Every law that changes the punishment, and inflicts a greater punishment, than the law annexed to the crime, when committed. 4th. Every law that alters the legal rules of evidence, and receives less, or different, testimony, than the law required at the time of the commission of the offense, in order to convict the offender.
agents do have the 'right' to get home to their wife and kids ya know...
Calder v. Bull *is* Bull; consider this:
1 — By Calder v. Bull only *criminal* law can be ex post facto.
2 — The Congress can pass retroactive/retrospective [what would otherwise be ex post facto] changes to tax law/regulation because they are “regulatory” or “administrative” laws.
3 — Violations of these “regulatory”/”administrative” laws are prosecuted in *criminal* court.
Buck ‘n ball gives you the best of both worlds. Centurion starting making them a few years ago, and a couple of domestic brands are jumping aboard.
ATF measures with a rod down the barrel to the bolt face on a closed action.
Burning my house down? Well, OK, as long as my wife is in it, but no one kills my dog and gets away with it.
The “Serbu Super Shorty” and other sub-26” PGO “shotguns” are smoothbore pistols, to wit NFA AOW and subject to registration and $5 transfer tax.
The lead article enjoys its confusion over the sub-18” barrel but >26” overall length of the example given. Few PGOs have that peculiar configuration.
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