Posted on 11/18/2010 11:16:23 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
Lt. Gen. George Flynn, who heads the Marine Corps Combat Development Command in Quantico, told reporters at a Washington, D.C. breakfast that the service plans to finish outfitting five battalions with the new M-27 Infantry Automatic Rifle next month and then will observe how those Marines use it on deployment before changing the organization, training, and tactics of infantry units around the new weapon.
But Flynn pushed back at critics of the M-27, saying the improved accuracy of the Heckler and Koch-made automatic rifle makes up for a lower rate of fire compared to the M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon it's being fielded to replace.
"The initial feedback was that the IAR performed pretty well," Flynn said of early evaluations of the M-27. "Accuracy has a suppressive power all by itself."
(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...
True enough but if that is your philosophy then why use the SAW at all. You can do the same thing with your standard issue weapon.
Reading down further
The Corps' adoption of the IAR has been fraught with controversy, with critics arguing the limited firepower of an M-27 -- which shoots a 30-round magazine -- would leave Marines vulnerable.
The replacement of the M-249 with the M27 does not make sense if you still consider the SAW a useful part of your combat strategy.
It has a lower rate of fire than the current SAW and the same mag capacity as the standard infantry weapon. So the M-27 can not produce the sustained fire of the current SAW and it can not produce the rate of fire of the current SAW.
The M-27 does not fit the strategy profile of a SAW. Basically they are simply issuing a second standard issue infantry weapon which makes no sense.
Accuracy for the SAW is secondary to the sustained suppressive fire it is there to produce. The 30 round mag and low rate of fire makes it inferior to the present weapon. If HK could field a new weapon with same rate of fire and a 200 round drum mag with improved accuracy I could get behind it.
IMO this new weapon is placing our Marines at increased risk. The SAW carrier job is to lay down suppressing fire while the squad maneuvers. In other word he is supposed to scare the SH!T out of the enemy. He can’t perform that job as well if he has to change has to change magazines 6.5 times more often. I don’t care how much more accurate the rifle is. It is pretty simple math.
Very shortly the rest of US weaponry will be made in India.
...we have a history of making some mighty fine firearms ourselves.
We have a history of making some fine things in general.
The key word in that statement being “history”!
Hardly. This class of weapon has been obsolete since about 1943 and this specimen is nowhere near being the best version of it. This is just someone's way of compensating HK for the loss of a couple of big contracts. This little project will allow the Germans to unload their unwanted 416 parts on us after all.
Notice the litter of brass around the SAW.
Sending huge amounts of high energy projectiles at the enemy is the primary purpose of the SAW.
It would take the M-27 more than 6.5 times as long as the M-249 to produce that pile of empty brass.
>>We fielded the Krag because it beat anything we had.<<
That certainly is damning with faint praise. The Krag may very well might have been the best for a very short time frame; but its cartridge left a lot to be desired, as it had little to no stopping power.
I own one for historical value only.
Indeed it does. If I were assaulting a hilltop position- I'd rather it be held by a platoon of spray and pray troops than a squad from the Marine Corps Rifle Team.
Marksmanship is the state religion of the Marine Corps. I was in during the M16A1 era. I badly wished we could have gone back to the M14.
Because our House and Senate have destroyed the firearms industry in the USA and enforce it via the BATFE.
The 1986 FOPA Law made it very difficult for small arms manufacturers to develop new weapons without onerous restrictions, penalties, and fines.
Meanwhile, other countries without these laws are free to do all the R&D they want.
You are so underwhelming with your ignorance of terminal ballistics. The Krag was replaced by the 1903 Springfield which was a much more robust design, less complicated to manufacture and could be loaded much more quickly via stripper clips. The .30-03 cartridge which replaced the .30 U.S. (.30-40 Krag) fired the same 220 grain round nose bullet at about the same velocity as the Krag which, of course, gave about the same terminal ballistics. The cartridge did not have the reach desired so was modified to become the .30-06 which fired 147-150 grain and 170 grain spire point bullets giving flatter trajectory and a greater effective range.
Until you shoot something with a Krag, hold your opinion in your pocket.
Currently FN makes like 60% of the samll arms for the US military.
Rule #1 when dealing the Ordinance Department:
Trust but verify.
This looks like one of those test that won’t work out for the manufacturer.
Ordnance department:
Thank you professor, for your lesson in ballistics. I did not realize that there was a doctor of ballistics among us. However, there are numerous US Army and USMC reports that it took multiple hits to stop Boxer and Filipino troops.
As for my opinion, I will express it - without your permission - as long as America is a free country. However, in the unlikely event that you are now dictator, I REFUSE.
Read his “about me” page. He wrote a very funny and interesting bio.
Who knew?
Way off skillet, the H&K 416 is made in the USA, check the proof marks when you can....
Wrong get a type 10 FLL and design on.
The M249 is entirely manufactured in Columbia SC by FN Mfg LLC. A small thing called the Berry Amendment makes that a reality.
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