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L.A. contrail a missile launch? Retired general thinks so (op-ed)
Daily Inter Lake.com ^ | Sunday, November 21, 2010 2:00 am | Updated: 8:13 am, Sun Nov 21, 2010. | Jim Cash, retired brigadier general, U.S. Air Force

Posted on 11/21/2010 11:31:21 PM PST by TigersEye

Sliding silently under the mud, muck and fog of national politics, is a current event that makes Bill Clinton’s excursion into the world of elderly sex look tame in comparison. This time the nation’s national security is truly threatened in my opinion, and it involves not only a weak president with limited problem-solving ability, but leadership at the highest levels in the Pentagon as well. The American people would do well to demand a full investigation by an unbiased group, and let the chips fall where they may.

I am referring to the “missile shot” taken off the California coast recently, and the lame response by NORAD, the Pentagon and the White House itself.

(snip)

In my opinion, there is absolutely no doubt that what was captured on video off the coast of California was a missile launch, was clearly observed by NORAD, assessed by a four-star general within minutes, and passed to the president immediately. That is the way the system works, and heads fall if there is a failure. This is one of the most important tenets of national defense and its sole purpose of protecting the American people. Even the smallest failure in this system gets intense scrutiny at the highest level.

Now, the question that still must be answered is why NORAD’s muted response was simply that North America was not threatened, and later our government approved the lame excuse that the picture recorded was simply an aircraft leaving a contrail. This decision was made far above the four-star level, and because the system in place demands it, was made by the president himself.

(More at link)


(Excerpt) Read more at dailyinterlake.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: californiamissile; chat; contrail; jetcontrail; missile; missilemystery; mysterymissile; tinfoilbrigade; ups902
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To: Mr. Silverback; Finny
"a moving video"

"Is there any other kind?"

~~~~~~~~~

Well, there are video stills, but they are generally inferior to camera stills -- especially in resolution -- and especially this video. Not only was Levyas' video shot from a moving platform with long, uncalibrated zooms, he added a "2X extender", which only provides "empty" magnification and further degrades the already low resolution image.

I must disagree with Finny's

"Yet they will watch as you throw still photo after still photo after still photo at us asking us to compare them to the original video, when common sense tells ANYONE that a video of a moving event, such as an airplane leaving a contrail or a missile leaving a plume, is going to convey more information than a still photo of a moving event."

Each medium has its advantages. Stills can provide much higher resolution and have "metadata" indicating details like time and focal length, Having multiple (still or video) recordings of the same event allow triangulation of viewpoints and such necessities as bearings to the point of sunset. But, I must agree: unrelated "examples ad infinitum" do tend to become wearisome...

~~~~~

A new, wide angle still photo taken from Hermosa Beach (north of both Levyas & Warren) shows the "sunset arch" and indicates the bearing to sunset. (Reducing brightness of the image makes the "arch" much more visible.)

The "missile plume" is at left, and there are other contrails also visible. The sunset point is at the midpoint of the white high altitude cloud (or horizontal contrail). This reveals that the sun's position is much farther to the north than one would guess from the video -- so the contrail is lit as much from the side as it is from beneath. This latest photo was taken with a 20mm (extra wide angle) lens, whereas even Warren's stills were taken at focal lengths of 210mm to 300mm.

The helicopter was obviously south of the contrail much of the time. Having multiple viewpoints up and down the coast is definitely beneficial -- if you are seeking understanding.

Of course, this new viewpoint makes interpretation of the contrail as a missile headed offshore much more difficult..

351 posted on 11/24/2010 6:23:26 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: TXnMA
Oh my. This new picture is a shocking development. Obviously the west coast wasn't threatened by a rogue missile launch. It was threatened by a salvo of missile launches. At least three. And based on the shading and lighting contrast depicted in each missile plume, I am nearly certain they were missiles launched by Somalian pirates. The only thing left to do at this point is to contact all the noted experts who publicly stated a missile had been launched off the Californian coast and thank them for their brilliant assessment.
352 posted on 11/24/2010 7:48:04 PM PST by Rokke (www.therightreasons.net)
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To: TXnMA

I haven’t looked yet, but let me guess: The missile crowd says this Hermosa photo is “an obvious fake,” right?


353 posted on 11/24/2010 7:48:34 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Mr. Silverback
*sigh* Your photos are very distant, and I have only your word to take for the assurance that "this is an airplane" or "this is a missile," and that they are unretouched. Right.

So that "given" is taken away. I have no idea what the vehicle is in these photos, nor does anyone else. But I CAN tell the direction of the sun hitting the contrail or plume, and so can anyone looking at them. Sorry, I'm not going to play "ID the Photo" with you. Is the sun in the west, or the east? How much of the half-side of the plume that I can see is it illuminating? And HOW LONG HAS THE TRAIL BEEN THERE? See, that's where video means something and still shots go out the window.

So the exercise is futile and a distraction from the case in point: Leyvas' video. When it comes to judging contrails or missiles, as in proof that what we see in a "trust me" still photo is what it is claimed to be, YOU NEED VIDEO.

You expect the World to take you at your word that the photos you show are what you say they are. How on earth do I not know that you slipped an extra in there just for grins? But look at them and think, for heaven's sale! The brightest side is facing the direction of the light; the darkest faces the other way.

It sure would be nice to know whether what looks like shadow on the bottom of a brightly lit surface, is just a degenerated contrail that's been there for the past 30 minutes 5 miles high, or the solid darkness of a plume? Except ... there's sunlight on either side of it, from below, so it's probably degenerated in to a concave underside contrail. You can't tell because it's a still shot taken from a long distance.

Hello?

354 posted on 11/24/2010 7:50:55 PM PST by Finny ("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent)
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To: Rokke

It gets worse: Chicom SLBM’s launched just such a salvo (3 missiles) from the Mississippi River sometime on Saturday (I saw the remains of the three vertical rocket plumes) and one from Lake Michigan on Tuesday afternoon. I saw that one arcing over my house close to sunset; it even had the “telltale rocket” corkscrew and I saw some flame...definitely a Chinese SLBM.


355 posted on 11/24/2010 7:55:08 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Mr. Silverback
I haven’t looked yet, but let me guess: The missile crowd says this Hermosa photo is “an obvious fake,” right?

That is how conspiracy theorists operate. When they have no proof for their argument, they deny the proof by saying its faked (without, of course, proving that its faked). Its soooo easy to be a conspiracy theorist, you never ever have to prove your point, instead, you can demand that the normal people disprove your silly theory.

356 posted on 11/24/2010 7:58:47 PM PST by Sto Zvirat
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To: Mr. Silverback
"I haven’t looked yet, but let me guess: The missile crowd says this Hermosa photo is “an obvious fake,” right?"

You were 2 minutes and 21 seconds premature.

357 posted on 11/24/2010 7:59:30 PM PST by Rokke (www.therightreasons.net)
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To: Finny

And, again, the missile crowd has zero proof, no data, nothing other than “gee that looks like a missile”

But..it must be a conspiracy that no one takes the missile folk seriously anymore.


358 posted on 11/24/2010 8:11:36 PM PST by Sto Zvirat
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To: Finny
"YOU NEED VIDEO."

Except in this case, the video makes it even more obvious that what occurred off the coast of California had NOTHING to do with a missile. The video reveals the relative motion of the object making the trail, and clearly reveals how slowly it is moving. Any missile still burning fuel is accelerating. Rapidly. As a rough gauge, the space shuttle accelerates from 0 to 17,000mph in about 8 minutes and reaches low Earth orbit during that time. It reaches 150,000ft in just the first 2 minutes. Smaller rockets accelerate at an even faster rate.

So compare that to the Leyvas video. What is depicted in that video is nothing like a missile in flight. In fact, if a person was hoping to convince someone that a the video showed a missile in flight, they would be far better off showing stills from the video. And even then, only stills that didn't give the viewer the opportunity to view the whole trail or an indication of how long the object had been in flight.

359 posted on 11/24/2010 8:35:07 PM PST by Rokke (www.therightreasons.net)
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To: Sto Zvirat; Mr. Silverback; Finny
And, again, the missile crowd has zero proof, no data, nothing other than “gee that looks like a missile”

~~~~~~~

For shame! They do also have 14 seconds of time-scrambled, low-resolution video at unknown magnifications, viewpoint and timing -- that CBS lied about! (And a few Generals who were suckered into calling it a "missile".)

And, although they don't really know the spatial relationship of the sun to the "plume" -- they have shadows...

...and the sad burden of mistrusting the honesty and motives of FReepers who have otherwise proven to be reliable conservative patriots...,

So, don't be so hard on 'em, FRiend...

~~~~~~~~~

Happy, blest and safe Thanksgiving, all!

360 posted on 11/24/2010 9:03:44 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: TigersEye; aruanan
You have copied and pasted this idiotic post on at least three 3) threads.

The first time you did it, I called you on it and pointed out that you were making an invalid comparison:

"Also, use your (appropriate adjective) powers of observation and notice that the two photos you posted were at two different zoom magnifications. Think that might affect your conclusions?"

Well, apparently "getting a clue" doesn't help you -- because you posted -- verbatim -- that same entire WRONG post (at least) twice more -- including this one.

Here are the two frames - carefully superimposed. Of course, I had to magnify the second photo (taken with 210mm focal length) ~154% to make it match the first one (taken at 300mm focal length.)

Still think that's "comical CGI"? (And it was composited from the raw Warren files -- by me, TXnMA -- not by your so-called, "silly" contrailscience.com website.)

Still want to stand by your (triply-repeated) statement (for which I retired my Texan description):

"Those two photos are clearly NOT taken from the same location OR the clouds moved quite a bit from one shot to the next."

??? Well, do you????

~~~~~~~~~

Are you familiar with the term, "mental laziness"?

361 posted on 11/26/2010 9:07:18 PM PST by TXnMA (seeB S lies...)
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To: TXnMA

What I love most about those pics is they show the plane flying sideways faster than it moves forward. Really cool!!!


362 posted on 11/26/2010 9:43:39 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: TigersEye; aruanan; Mr. Silverback
"What I love most about those pics is they show the plane flying sideways faster than it moves forward. "

Which only highlights your ignorance of the well-known relative angular velocity compression/expansion effects of long lenses. If I feel like it tomorrow, I may look up an explanatory post I made for another FReeper and point you to it.

Any experienced photographer would find your comment laughable...

363 posted on 11/26/2010 9:58:16 PM PST by TXnMA (seeB S lies...)
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To: TXnMA; TigersEye; aruanan; Mr. Silverback
I cannot beleive anyone is still flogging the mystery missle myth at this point.

Perhaps in about a year's time, FR should allow former Missileers to quitely delete their embarassing posts on the matter.

364 posted on 11/27/2010 5:30:15 AM PST by Dagnabitt ("Obama" - Swahili for "Fail")
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To: Dagnabitt

Yeah, the silence of the responses to all the challenges I posted last night is deafening. The MSM dupes/shills are running short on arguments... ;-)


365 posted on 11/27/2010 9:51:42 AM PST by TXnMA (seeB S lies...)
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To: piytar

““spin stabilized missile.””

Which missile is that exactly? I think you are confusing bullets with missiles.


366 posted on 11/27/2010 10:01:24 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: piytar

“Anyone who knows anything about these matters “

Which obviously isn’t you. I’ve never seen a missile hang out for 10 minutes before and I’ve launched far more missiles than you’ve had birthdays. In 10 minutes any sub launched missile is long gone and over the horizon, not hanging out for paparazzi.


367 posted on 11/27/2010 10:03:58 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad

You show up how many days after the thread is essentially dead to toss out that tidbit? Really? LOL. Guess the General is an idiot, too, eh? Again, LOL...


368 posted on 11/27/2010 12:30:28 PM PST by piytar (0's idea of power: the capacity to inflict unlimited pain and suffering on another human being. 1984)
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To: piytar
If the facts, evidence and common sense are overwhelmingly against one's fantasy, then an "appeal to authority" might be the best option. But:

How many retired USAF generals are there in the USA?
Hundreds? A thousand?

How many besides this elderly gentleman have come out in support of the "secret missile from secret submarine operated by secret enemy flying to secret destination for secret reason" theory?

369 posted on 11/27/2010 12:46:42 PM PST by Dagnabitt ("Obama" - Swahili for "Fail")
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To: Dagnabitt; OldMissileer

Really? Why are you two revisiting this dead thread and piling on? It’s kind of silly. I may have overstated, but I’m not being “conspiracy nuts” thinking that might have been a missile.

BTW, I’ll appeal to authority again: OldMissileer, who has more personal knowledge about missiles than you, me, and that other commenter combined, timely corrected some of my mistakes. However, he apparently hasn’t come to a conclusion. My take is that there is a chance it was a missile. (My guess is if it was a missile, it was a jihadi’s slow junk scud style missile shot from a cargo container that went way off course, as those are wont to do.)

That said, your timing, dismissiveness, and condescension are amusing. Your decision to revisit this dead thread is weird.

PS Copied you OldMissileer because I mentioned you. Know you’re sick of this debate, but wanted to abide by the posting customs.

PPS Contrails and missile exhaust do last a while. That said, “10 minutes” is pure hyperbole.


370 posted on 11/27/2010 1:26:37 PM PST by piytar (0's idea of power: the capacity to inflict unlimited pain and suffering on another human being. 1984)
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To: Dagnabitt

Oh, there aren’t two of you, just you. My bad.

Gonna watch Wisc cream NW now (dang). Have fun on the dead thread.


371 posted on 11/27/2010 1:28:29 PM PST by piytar (0's idea of power: the capacity to inflict unlimited pain and suffering on another human being. 1984)
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To: piytar

Former Assistant Director at NORAD, General Jim Cash says “there is absolutely no doubt that what was captured on video off the coast of California was a missile launch !!!”!”


372 posted on 11/27/2010 1:48:13 PM PST by DontTreadOnMe2009 (So stop treading on me already!)
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To: Dagnabitt

I keep getting pinged back to it, Dograbbit.


373 posted on 11/27/2010 2:10:27 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: Finny; TXnMA
I did not convince you of anything. Your brain computed truth. Everyone who looked at this video and immediately saw a missile launch, were computing all that same information with regard to light angles, etc., subconsciously, intuitively. Our subconcious powers are mighty and it is idiotic to ignore or work against them.

Ha ha ha. If that's so, then why is the history of science and technology littered with the corpses of what the purveyors were convinced was the computed truth of mighty subconscious powers against which it was idiotic to work? Think phlogiston, abiogenesis (the Spallanzani one, not the one currently in fashion, though it's just as flawed), phrenology, the homunculus theory, and the "law of nature" that an electrical generator could never exceed 50% efficiency (See Edison, His Life and Inventions, Vol 2, pp 868-9) as just a few examples.
374 posted on 11/27/2010 2:17:18 PM PST by aruanan
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To: TXnMA
Which only highlights your ignorance of the well-known relative angular velocity compression/expansion effects of long lenses.

There used to be a guy in town that lived under bridges that talked like that. He finally started taking his meds.

375 posted on 11/27/2010 2:29:39 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: Rokke
And finally, why is it that despite thousands upon thousands of photos of actual missile launches, none look like the photo taken off the coast of California? Given that you can actually identify an object leaving the "trail", if it were a missile, it is still expelling exhaust and must still be in its boost phase. That means it is still accelerating and unless it is flying horizontally (which you obviously don't agree with) must be climbing at several times the speed of sound. Yet, even in the video, it just kind of sits there toward the end. Nothing like any rocket or missile ever photographed or filmed. How do you explain that?

Hey, no fair, bringing reality into this discussion! The reason that it was still expelling exhaust many minutes longer than the longest known ICBM kind of missile and just appearing to sit there must necessarily be, since it is undoubtedly a missile, that it is a special, hitherto-unknown sort of missile that is made to travel more slowly through decreasing acceleration as well as to expel a chemical in its exhaust that keeps its color consistent so as to appear to be a contrail of a jet flying horizontal to the earth at this time of day. That is, it is a cleverly disguised missile that has probably landed at a nearby airport and is sitting there appearing to be a jet, only waiting for the right moment to detonate and blow the airport off the face of the earth.
376 posted on 11/27/2010 2:40:26 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Finny
People have so much ego invested that when I and others note our personal experience witnessing real launches, those who haven't interpret it as "bragging" and thereby give themselves an excuse to discount our more qualified comparisons.

I don't think you're bragging, just mistaken.
377 posted on 11/27/2010 2:42:42 PM PST by aruanan
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To: piytar

“Guess the General is an idiot, too, eh?”

Being a General doesn’t make one right. But, I guess since you want to be a drama queen and sound the alarm that someone fired a missle, go ahead, even though that optical illusion violates the laws of physics and known missile performance. You just go ahead and be feeble minded enough to believe your lying eyes because your brain doesn’t know the difference.


378 posted on 11/27/2010 3:07:16 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad; aruanan; piytar
C-Toad says to piytar: I guess since you want to be a drama queen and sound the alarm that someone fired a missle, go ahead, even though that optical illusion violates the laws of physics and known missile performance. You just go ahead and be feeble minded enough to believe your lying eyes because your brain doesn’t know the difference.

In other words, C-Toad must assume an IMMENSE amount of stupidity, kookiness, incompetence, and feeble-mindedness on the part of a wide range of people with either or both professional and empirical experience of the phenomenon in question. He MUST make that assumption in order to believe what he needs to believe.

Meanwhile, speaking for myself, I know perfectly well that FReepers like C Toad and Aruanan are as sane, smart, competent, and intelligent as me or any other long-time established FReeper. I do not, and never have, accused FReepers who fall for the airplane cover story as being "feeble-minded," and never will. I DO accuse them of being either frightened OR arrogant, overrating their own skills, and flattering themselves (or allowing themselves to be flattered) that they are "smarter" and "calmer" than people who've actually had quite a lot of empirical experience in comparable events at the location AND with the phenomenon in the Leyvas' video, as well as genuine airline contrails in the same location.

379 posted on 11/27/2010 3:31:28 PM PST by Finny ("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent)
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To: CodeToad

“But, I guess since you want to be a drama queen.”

Look in the mirror, bub. LOL.


380 posted on 11/27/2010 3:44:04 PM PST by piytar (0's idea of power: the capacity to inflict unlimited pain and suffering on another human being. 1984)
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To: piytar

I’m not the one yelling “Missile!” when I haven’t clue what I am talking about, you are.


381 posted on 11/27/2010 3:47:37 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Finny

Um, thanks. I think.

Did overstate - as I’ve admitted several times - in my first post. Got sat down for it. But I maintain this *might* have been a missile shot, prob a low tech spin-stabilized scud type if it was. Apparently that makes me a conspiracy theory nutjob. Oh well. I also support Palin, DeMint, Bachmann, and Lt. Col. West, so I’m used to the charge. LOL.

PS And thanks for cc’ing me on the comment.


382 posted on 11/27/2010 3:49:04 PM PST by piytar (0's idea of power: the capacity to inflict unlimited pain and suffering on another human being. 1984)
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To: piytar

You and your General still haven’t backed up your bullsh*t story about “spin stabilized missiles” by naming an SLBM that does that nor have you stated a single missile that can hang out for ten minutes like that airplane did making that contrail. Go ahead, smarty, we’ll wait.


383 posted on 11/27/2010 3:50:49 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: CodeToad

Ya read much? I don’t buy the SLBM idea. Made that clear. Look at the FROG-7A or the like, fired from a cargo container.


384 posted on 11/27/2010 4:01:22 PM PST by piytar (0's idea of power: the capacity to inflict unlimited pain and suffering on another human being. 1984)
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To: DontTreadOnMe2009
"Former Assistant Director at NORAD, General Jim Cash says “there is absolutely no doubt that what was captured on video off the coast of California was a missile launch !!!”!”

LOL, and hasn't been heard from since. Below is the last known photo of him taken after he made his comments...


385 posted on 11/27/2010 6:19:18 PM PST by Rokke (www.therightreasons.net)
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To: piytar
"Ya read much? I don’t buy the SLBM idea. Made that clear. Look at the FROG-7A or the like, fired from a cargo container."

The entire time of flight of a Frog or the like missile is less than 5 minutes from launch to impact and they fly a ballistic arc.

386 posted on 11/27/2010 6:21:48 PM PST by Rokke (www.therightreasons.net)
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To: TigersEye; aruanan
Most folks who write technical and scientific reports and present papers at professional conferences (and I have done so many times) -- when they are describing something precisely -- speak and write like that. And, none that I know live under bridges.

Instead of trying to understand what I said, you compare me to a homeless guy. Is that the best you can do? Remember that term, "mental laziness"? Feel a fit coming on?

No wonder the first word to describe your rants popped up from my Texian Lexicon -- it still fits. And you still need to go back and see who started that discussion -- before I do it publicly for you...

387 posted on 11/27/2010 7:15:13 PM PST by TXnMA (seeB S lies...)
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To: TXnMA

His problem wasn’t the homelessness he was a schizophrenic.


388 posted on 11/27/2010 7:46:01 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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