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Insights Give Hope for New Attack on Alzheimer’s
NY Times ^ | December 13, 2010 | GINA KOLATA

Posted on 12/13/2010 11:48:12 PM PST by neverdem

Alzheimer’s researchers are obsessed with a small, sticky protein fragment, beta amyloid, that clumps into barnaclelike balls in the brains of patients with this degenerative neurological disease.

It is a normal protein. Everyone’s brain makes it. But the problem in Alzheimer’s is that it starts to accumulate into balls — plaques. The first sign the disease is developing — before there are any symptoms — is a buildup of amyloid. And for years, it seemed, the problem in Alzheimer’s was that brain cells were making too much of it.

But now, a surprising new study has found that that view appears to be wrong. It turns out that most people with Alzheimer’s seem to make perfectly normal amounts of amyloid. They just can’t get rid of it. It’s like an overflowing sink caused by a clogged drain instead of a faucet that does not turn off.

That discovery is part of a wave of unexpected findings that are enriching scientists’ views of the genesis of Alzheimer’s disease. In some cases, like the story of amyloid disposal, the work points to new ways to understand and attack the disease. If researchers could find a way to speed up disposal, perhaps they could slow down or halt the disease. Researchers have also found that amyloid, in its normal small amounts, seems to have a purpose in the brain — it may be acting like a circuit breaker to prevent nerve firing from getting out of control. But too much amyloid can shut down nerves, eventually leading to cell death. That means that if amyloid levels were reduced early in the disease, when excess amyloid is stunning nerve cells but has not yet killed them, the damage might be reversed.

Yet another line of research involves the brain’s default network...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Testing
KEYWORDS: alzheimers; alzheimersdisease; amyloid; health; medicine
Decreased Clearance of CNS β-Amyloid in Alzheimer’s Disease
1 posted on 12/13/2010 11:48:16 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Acetyl-L-carnitine: a drug able to slow the progress of Alzheimer’s disease?
Carta A, Calvani M.

Department of Neurological Research, Sigma-Tau, Pomezia, Rome, Italy.

Abstract
Defects in cholinergic neurotransmission do not, by themselves, constitute the sole pathophysiologic concomitants of Alzheimer’s disease (AD). Recent findings point out that abnormalities in membrane phospholipid turnover and in brain energy metabolism may also characterize AD. Acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) is an endogenous substance that, acting as an energy carrier at the mitochondrial level, controls the availability of acetyl-L-CoA. ALC has a variety of pharmacologic properties that exhibit restorative or even protective actions against aging processes and neurodegeneration. A review of a series of controlled clinical studies suggests that ALC may also slow the natural course of AD.

PMID: 1776743 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


2 posted on 12/14/2010 1:06:27 AM PST by saintgermaine
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To: neverdem; All

I have heard that there is a correlation between heavy beer drinking and Alzheimers, but NOT between heavy wine drinking. I know they are saying good things about resviratrol in wine, possible link?


3 posted on 12/14/2010 1:08:40 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: neverdem

Alas, too little, too late. My dad (92) is in a nursing home with advanced Alzheimer’s. I saw him in October; I was not prepared for it. I’m stuck in Delaware; my parents live in Florida, so I don’t get to see them much.

It is so difficult to see him, when I remember the vibrant man who did so much. Hopefully, this will work and spare others.


4 posted on 12/14/2010 1:16:56 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: neverdem

*self-bookmark for when I’m on campus and hopefully won’t get blocked by Sciencemag.org paywall*


5 posted on 12/14/2010 1:18:42 AM PST by verum ago (Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!)
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To: saintgermaine

bump to myself.


6 posted on 12/14/2010 1:19:28 AM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: saintgermaine

Thanks for the abstract!


7 posted on 12/14/2010 11:33:47 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: gleeaikin
I have heard that there is a correlation between heavy beer drinking and Alzheimers, but NOT between heavy wine drinking.

I never heard about heavy beer drinking and Alzheimers, although the U shaped curve found with alcohol and coronary artery disease and mortality has been recognized for a while.

Pattern of drinking affects the relation of alcohol intake to coronary heart disease

While a strong inverse association between moderate alcohol consumption and cardiovascular disease has been demonstrated for decades, more recent research has emphasized the importance of the pattern of drinking (regular moderate versus episodic or binge drinking). Further, there continues to be debate about the potential greater effect of wine versus other beverages containing alcohol. This study shows that regular moderate drinking (especially of wine) is associated with lower risk of MI(myocardial infarction, aka "heart attack"), but episodic or binge drinking increases the risk. Lifetime abstinence has a similar adverse relation to CHD as does episodic or binge drinking.

I know they are saying good things about resviratrol in wine, possible link?

It's resveratrol. It's involved with sirtuin genes and energy metabolism, IIRC. Caloric restriction has a similar effect. Type 2 diabetes is associated with Alzheimer’s.

8 posted on 12/14/2010 12:09:39 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: NTHockey

I’m sorry to read about your dad. May they get a useful treatment for it sooner rather than later.


9 posted on 12/14/2010 12:14:19 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: El Gato; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; Dianna; ...
UCSF “fountain of youth” pill could restore aging immune system

UCR scientists identify pomegranate juice components that could stop cancer from spreading

Study shows how flu infections may prevent asthma

'Good' Cholesterol May Protect Against Alzheimer's Done in a now very diverse neighborhood, it's where I grew up,

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.

10 posted on 12/14/2010 3:21:35 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem
Done in a now very diverse neighborhood, it's where I grew up,

Inwood? Morningside Heights? I don't see where it says.

11 posted on 12/14/2010 3:35:50 PM PST by decimon
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To: NTHockey

New finding on Alzheimers:

Your Local Food Store May Have the Cure for Alzheimer’s Disease

Alzheimer’s affects 5.2 million people in the U.S. and doctors are stymied over finding a cure. But one doctor may have stumbled on a simple and safe solution that seems to reverse the memory loss and mental “fog” associated with this dreaded disease.

As we reported on Tuesday, Dr. Mary Newport has made a startling discovery. And she’s now reported her findings to the medical community. A daily intake of coconut oil halted the symptoms of her husband’s early onset Alzheimer’s. In fact, it reversed much of the damage done by the disease.

At just 53, her husband began to lose his mental functions. As an accountant, he found he had trouble completing tax returns and basic accounting tasks. Later, he had trouble keeping his shoes and socks together or finding a spoon in his kitchen.

He was put on one big name Alzheimer’s drug after another but he steadily declined. Desperate, his wife researched the “why and how” of Alzheimer’s until she made an important discovery. Her findings showed that Alzheimer’s patients had brain cells that were unable to process glucose. That’s the brain’s principal energy source.

In fact, without glucose, the neurons in the brain began to die. But Dr. Newport discovered another energy source which can “refuel” the brains of Alzheimer’s patients.

The Importance of Ketones

This other energy source is called “ketones.” Ketones are a fat that’s easily digested and used by your body. Your liver converts them into an alternate energy source for your brain.

Athletes, soldiers, and bodybuilders use them to power their bodies through tough conditions. They do this by drinking a type of oil made of medium chain triglycerides (MCT).

Coconut Oil Is Full of These Ketones

Coconut oil is made up of 60 percent of MCTs. Big Pharma has already seized on this. in fact, there’s a new Alzheimer’s drug in the works that uses MCT oil as a key component.

But Dr. Newport says the coconut oil alone may reverse the effects of Alzheimer’s disease.

Her husband began taking coconut oil twice a day. After two weeks he could draw a simple clock – which he couldn’t do prior to the coconut oil. (Drawing a clock is a typical test for Alzheimer’s.) After two months, he was more himself, joking and alert. His focus had increased. His memory improved. And he was more active.

Fast forward two years: He’s now running again and doing yard work. His short-term memory is so improved that he remembers all recent events and conversations with accuracy. Here’s the best part: his MRIs show that his brain atrophy has ceased. And actually improved past his original MRIs from years earlier.

How Fat Factors into Alzheimer’s

Your brain is made up of fats. The right kind of fat is beneficial to your thought process. The wrong kind may actually promote diseases like Alzheimer’s.

Studies show that trans fats get absorbed into your brain cells and change them.

Renowned nutritional counselor Dr. Raymond Peat points to a 1980 study. This study found rats who were fed milk-with-soy-oil absorbed the oil into their brain cells. This changed their cells on a fundamental level. It made those cells become abnormal. Studies show that trans fats do the same.

On the other hand, Dr. Peat says your brain needs healthy fats to function at an optimum level. Coconut oil is such a fat.

How to Use Coconut Oil

You can start taking coconut oil to promote your brain health even if you have no symptoms of Alzheimer’s. It’s used in cooking throughout the Philippines and parts of India and Thailand. These countries have some of the lowest levels of Alzheimer’s in the world.

Coconut oil is versatile. You can use it in place of other vegetable oils in cooking. You can also use coconut milk in place of regular milk in many recipes.

But the easiest option is to just take it by the spoonful. Dr. Newport gave her husband eight teaspoons of coconut oil throughout the day. She started to see improvements after about two weeks. Two months into the coconut regimen, he was acting more like himself.

You can find coconut oil in most natural foods stores and some supermarkets. But be sure you’re getting the pure virgin coconut oil to reduce your exposure to the chemical extraction process.


12 posted on 12/14/2010 3:48:50 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: decimon

Inwood, but we often went to Washington Heights. It was done at Columbia-Presbyterian.


13 posted on 12/14/2010 4:34:57 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: editor-surveyor

Thank you!


14 posted on 12/14/2010 4:40:15 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: neverdem
Inwood...

Were you ever an illegal Irish construction worker? ;-)

15 posted on 12/14/2010 4:46:01 PM PST by decimon
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To: Judith Anne

You are most welcome!


16 posted on 12/14/2010 4:57:39 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: Judith Anne

Another angle on Alzheimers:

Spice and Sunlight Combat Alzheimer’s Disease


Can a spice found in most Indian curries combat Alzheimer’s disease?
__________________________________________________________________

Dr. Milan Fiala and researchers at UCLA say it can.

As we explained on Tuesday, Dr. Fiala is leading research in the field of Alzheimer’s. He’s a graduate of the University of Geneva, Switzerland with an MSc from Harvard. Two years ago he was given the “Alzheimer Award” by the Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease.

He’s convinced that curcumin may fight Alzheimer’s disease. Dozens of studies support his theory.

But his latest research shows it can be even more powerful with the addition of vitamin D3.

Taking Science Forward

Dr. Fiala’s earlier work shows that a protein called amyloid-beta accumulates in our brains, causing plaque to build up over time. This breaks down mental function and leads to Alzheimer’s.

Dr. Fiala was the first to show that curcumin can combat this. He found that the spice helps the immune system remove this protein from our brains.

He took blood samples from six patients with Alzheimer’s disease and from three healthy control patients. He isolated specialized cells called macrophages. These are the “cleanup crew” of the human immune system. They go through the body, swallowing up waste products. Normally, they remove abnormal amyloid-beta protein from brain cells.

But as Dr. Fiala showed… they don’t work well in Alzheimer’s patients. Compared to to those in the healthy control patients, they are almost useless.

He treated these macrophages with curcumin for 24 hours. They dramatically improved. The curcumin boosted their cleaning power, allowing them to remove the protein that leads to Alzheimer’s.

“Curcumin improved ingestion of amyloid-beta by immune cells in 50 percent of patients with Alzheimer’s,” says Dr. Fiala. “These findings demonstrate that curcumin boosts the immune system of specific Alzheimer’s disease patients.”

But what about the other 50 percent? Well, that’s where vitamin D3 comes in.

Powerful Combo

Dr. Fiala and his team have conducted a brand new study to tackle this issue. It shows that Vitamin D3 and curcumin together power up the cleaning crews. They then remove the protein.

They found that curcumin helps bind the protein to the “cleaning crew.” Vitamin D boosts the cleaners’ absorption of the protein – in all patients. That allows the “cleaning crew” to remove the dangerous protein. Just like healthy people.

“Vitamin D3 and curcumin offer new treatment possibilities for Alzheimer’s,” says Dr. Fiala.

He notes that both compounds are completely natural and safe. That means you can take steps today to prevent Alzheimer’s.

The best source of vitamin D3 is through natural sunlight. In summer and spring months you should opt for at least 20 minutes each day. But during the winter you can also get it in your diet.

Wild-caught cold-water fish are perhaps the best dietary sources of vitamin D3. But cage-free eggs and organic yogurt are good sources too.

You can also buy a vitamin D3 supplement in capsule form. The recommended dose is 10 mcg each day for people over 50.

As for curcumin… getting that is easy. It’s found in abundant amounts in Indian food and spicy curry. But you can also buy it in supplement form at most good health stores.

Dr. Sally Frautschy – associate professor of UCLA – says she eats curry four times a week.

She recommends you take one tablespoon or 200mg of curcumin each day.


17 posted on 12/14/2010 5:04:36 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: Judith Anne

More on Vitamin D and Alzheimers:

Cut Alzheimer’s Risk by 394 Percent
___________________________________________

Anybody who has experienced Alzheimer’s will know the helplessness that comes with this devastating disease. Anybody who has seen it in a friend or family member will know the pain that comes from seeing your loved one deteriorate.

A powerful leader accustomed to driving multiple operations will gradually lose command. A dedicated grandmother may forget the names of the grandchildren she loves.

When I read one woman’s story about how she came to accept that she had Alzheimer’s, my heart broke a little. She says:

“I think there comes a point in everyone’s life when we pause to reflect on the past, realize the present and look to the future. That happened for me at the age of 46. I’d been married for over 20 years. Our son was in his freshman year of college. I was happy in my job and my husband was looking forward to retirement.

“In the fall of that year I started to become forgetful – which was not like me at all. I had an almost photographic memory. I had a stressful job and worked long hours, so I blamed that for my forgetfulness. I couldn’t remember things like my home phone number, my associates’ names, or on bad days, how to get home.

“I remember that many times I would stop at a gas station. After filling my tank [I wouldn’t] know whether I was going to work or coming home. I tried desperately to hide it and became pretty good at it! But one day in December, my husband and I were out shopping. He went to a different department in the store. The next thing I knew was that I couldn’t remember where I was or how I got there. It was time to fess up…”

Kris, from Georgia

Alzheimer’s can be a debilitating disease that can dramatically transform your life. It’s an insidious disease that can rock your confidence and rob you of your yesterdays. As one sufferer says, “I feel that I am robbed of any future because while I will live in it, I will be unlikely to remember it.”

It’s a brutal reality to have to accept. But scientists are offering hope in fighting the disease. Over 4,000 scientists attended the recent International Conference on Alzheimer’s Disease. And amidst a flurry of presentations, they reported that simple vitamin D may be your best defense against Alzheimer’s.

“Sunshine” Vitamin Boosts Brain Function

Sounds too good to be true? Not according to a new study revealed at the conference. The study says that vitamin D deficiency raises your risk of mental decline by up to 394 percent.

The study is just the latest to show that the “sunshine vitamin” is essential to good brain health. It was conducted by the Peninsula Medical School in Exeter, England. It reviewed participants as they completed a series of tests and exams.

Tests included memory, time and space orientation, and attention-focusing exercises. Vitamin D levels were measured from blood samples and compared with test performances.

“There are some fantastic findings this year,” said Professor William Thies, the chief medical and scientific officer of the Alzheimer’s Association. He said these findings “are some of the first reports of this type in Alzheimer’s” and “have the “potential to move the field forward.”

Study results showed that the risk of cognitive impairment was 42 percent higher in people deficient in vitamin D. Impairment was 394 percent higher in those who were severely deficient in it.

“The odds of cognitive impairment increase as vitamin D levels go down,” says study author David Llewellyn. “Given that both vitamin D deficiency and dementia are common throughout the world, this is a major public health concern.”

The Peninsula Medical School also worked on an earlier related study. It too offered evidence supporting this simple truth: seniors who get their daily dose of “sunshine” maintain stronger cognitive functioning.

Critical research, based on tests conducted on almost 2,000 U.K. senior citizens, showed a clear correlation between the presence of the “sunshine vitamin” and healthy mental function.

Sunshine is an important source of vitamin D. UVB rays initiate the production of the vitamin in human skin. Vitamin D also helps maintain strong bones (through the absorption of calcium and phosphorus) and a healthy immune system.

According to study author Dr. Iain Lang, the results indicate that individuals with the lowest levels of Vitamin D were 50 percent more likely to suffer impaired mental faculties. In other words, as vitamin D levels in seniors decreases, mental impairment increases.

“Getting enough vitamin D can be a real problem,” said Dr. Lang. “Particularly for older people, who absorb less vitamin D from sunlight. One way to address this might be to provide older adults with vitamin D supplements.”

Older people lose their capacity to absorb Vitamin D from sunlight as the body ages. That means they must seek other sources of the “sunshine vitamin.”

Sources of “Sunshine”

According to Rebecca Wood, chief executive of the Alzheimer’s Research Trust, Vitamin D can also be found in foods such as oily fish and eggs. She adds that these foods are key sources of vitamin B12, which studies have shown to also help in protecting the brain.

Maggie Ward – nutrition director at The UltraWellness Center in Lennox, MA – says the best animal source is liver, especially from cod, herring, and sardines.

“That’s why those living in dark climates have these fish as a staple in the diet,” she says. “Nature always knows best.”

But she believes the best source of vitamin D is simple, old-fashioned sunlight.

“This is one of the many reasons I love summer,” she says. “I get my vitamin D from the sun and have one less supplement to take.”

Supplement Your Sunshine

The Vitamin D Council offers several good tips to ensure you get just the right amount of “sunshine.” Check out these four ideas:

Have your doctor check your vitamin D levels. This will give you a good idea of how much vitamin D you need to supplement.
Make sure you’re getting vitamin D3 in your diet. Smart options are capsules or drops. To improve absorption, take it with food containing fat. Fat makes it more soluble.
Have your levels rechecked every three months. Vitamin D is a hormone, so it fluctuates for everyone. Seasonal changes also affect it.
People with dark skin need at least 5 to 10 times more sunlight than light-skinned people.
“Vitamin D supplements have proven to be a safe, inexpensive, and effective way to treat deficiency,” says Llewellyn. “However, few foods contain vitamin D and levels of supplementation in the U.S. are currently inadequate.”

http://www.totalhealthbreakthroughs.com/2009/06/sticks-and-stones-and-vitamin-d-deficiency/


18 posted on 12/14/2010 5:17:19 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor

Thanks for the heads-up. Will pursue with all vigor.


19 posted on 12/15/2010 1:15:24 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: editor-surveyor
So once again, Atkins was right. But I fail to understand why coconut oil is superior to things like fish oil or olive oil. ANY fat can do the "ketogensis" thing.
20 posted on 12/15/2010 4:56:26 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: neverdem

The way I feel this morning, they’d better hurry up...


21 posted on 12/15/2010 4:58:34 AM PST by Jim Noble (It's the tyranny, stupid!)
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To: NTHockey
My 87 yo father is in the VA hosp in Richmond, VA. He has deteriorated to the point that my sis, an RN, while visiting him is constantly queried as to "when is my daughter coming"? He is fading fast.

He is a WW2 submarine vet, and has earned his place. They take good care of him, and my sis,,, she keeps showing up with NC style BBQ for him! It is the only thing he remembers that he loves.

I watch everything in the news about AZ prevention!

...Contrary to the common belief that smoking the drug destroys memory, researchers have found that it could actually keep the brain young. The team at Ohio State University found that specific elements of marijuana can be good for the ageing brain by reducing inflammation there and possibly even stimulating the formation of new brain cells.

The research suggests that the development of a legal drug that contains certain properties similar to those in marijuana might help prevent or delay the onset of Alzheimer's disease. -click to Read entire article


22 posted on 12/15/2010 5:11:37 AM PST by WVKayaker (Faith makes the discords of the present become the harmonies of the future - Robert Collyer)
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To: Wonder Warthog

With coconut oil, its not ketogenesis; coconut oil actually is composed of ketones, and specifically the ketones that the brain needs to fight dementia.


23 posted on 12/15/2010 8:13:28 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: WVKayaker

Dr. Newport’s findings show that coconut oil will stop the degeneration, and reverse it. But the pharma fans in the hospital won’t be friendly to the idea.
.


24 posted on 12/15/2010 8:31:39 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"With coconut oil, its not ketogenesis; coconut oil actually is composed of ketones, and specifically the ketones that the brain needs to fight dementia."

Might I suggest you look up the composition of coconut oil?? I don't see any ketones listed in the chemical compositon given on Wikipedia. I don't think your supposition above (or the comments in the article) are correct.

25 posted on 12/15/2010 8:46:47 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

Trusting wikipedia over a biochemist and a surgeon seems rather argumentative to me, but use what you will; I’m not going there.


26 posted on 12/15/2010 9:19:00 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"Trusting wikipedia over a biochemist and a surgeon seems rather argumentative to me, but use what you will; I’m not going there."

Yes, but the article wasn't written by either a biochemist or a surgeon. It was written by a "journalist", who probably never came anywhere near a chemistry class.

As a chemist myself, and being overweight, I've studied a bit about fat metabolism, (Atkins diet), and the idea that coconut oil natively contains significant amounts of "ketones" is suspicious. The body itself makes ketones from fatty acids in the liver. I've seen nothing to indicate a direct route of dietary ketones into the metabolism.

I suspect the reporter simply didn't correctly understand what the scientist types were saying.

27 posted on 12/15/2010 2:56:56 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

The report was written by a nutritionist.

You’re talking about ketosis as per the Atkins diet, where the body is forced into ketosis by starving it of glucose, and forcing the metabolism of body fat, and the article is dealing with the ketones produced by the normal digestion of the coconut oil, without tampering with the normal glucose balance.

This therapy doesn’t require any elimination of starches in the diet.


28 posted on 12/15/2010 5:48:15 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"The report was written by a nutritionist."

Then I suggest that, in future, you provide links to stuff you post. You grouched because I referred to Wikipedia, while yourself referring to a non-attributed "something". Double-checking other sources, I find zero differences between the composition of coconut oil in the various sources checked, including Wikipedia.

"You’re talking about ketosis as per the Atkins diet, where the body is forced into ketosis by starving it of glucose, and forcing the metabolism of body fat, and the article is dealing with the ketones produced by the normal digestion of the coconut oil, without tampering with the normal glucose balance."

And precisely how does "digestion of coconut oil" generate ketones?? MY question whether (and your original assertion) was that coconut oil CONTAINED ketones....not that said ketones were "generated during digestion". And the follow-on question was whether other known healthfully beneficial fats (olive oil, fish oil) were different. I would assume that any digestive process that converts the fatty acids in coconut oil would similarly affect any fatty acid. Why is coconut oil different from these fats?

"This therapy doesn’t require any elimination of starches in the diet."

Which is irrelevant to what I am/was asking.

29 posted on 12/16/2010 4:04:47 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

Your reply makes me wonder what exactly you are objecting to.

I didn’t “grouch” about your pick of wikipedia. No one here accepts wikipedia as an authority on anything, but it is often used by trolls that wish to confuse an issue. (no, I’m not calling you a troll)

> “And precisely how does ‘digestion of coconut oil’ generate ketones?”

.
Really, that is outside of the purpose of the article, and the ketonic action of coconut oil is not even faintly in question anywhere that I can find. 70% of the search hits for coconut oil deal with the accepted fact of the ketonic properties of the oil, and I recommend that you take advantage of those hits if you genuinely have interest in that, because I am not qualified to give an authoritave answer.

> “ And the follow-on question was whether other known healthfully beneficial fats (olive oil, fish oil) were different”

.
Apparently not, as I can’t find any discussion of ketonic properties of any of them by web search.

> “Why is coconut oil different from these fats?”

.
Sounds like a really good subject for a PhD dissertation.

If I run into any answers to your questions, I will forward them to you.


30 posted on 12/16/2010 9:33:48 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"Your reply makes me wonder what exactly you are objecting to."

It's quite simple. You stated that coconut oil contains ketones.

The exact quote is:

"With coconut oil, its not ketogenesis; coconut oil actually is composed of ketones, and specifically the ketones that the brain needs to fight dementia.

So I go and look up the chemical composition of coconut oil, I see no ketones there. I see fatty acids. And as a chemist, I "do" know the difference.

If your original statement had been "the fatty acids in coconut oil are converted to ketones during digestion", I wouldn't have had a problem with your commentary. Proteins can yield glucose during digestion, but we don't call them "sugars".

I "am" interested in the topic of nutritional ways of decreasing lapse of brain function. I am "of an age" where such things start to happen, and I know my short term memory "she ain't as good as she used to be".

Add to which, I am experimenting with "intermittent fasting" both for weight loss and possible longevity effects, and one of the things allowed outside the "normal eating hours" of the fast is/are fatty acids.

If I can benefit the fast AND improve brain horsepower with a tablespoon or two of coconut oil, I am VERY interested, but there are other beneficial oils that I might choose (as mentioned, fish oil and olive oil). I already take "omega-3" gelcaps, but I'm not seeing much effect. I currently have a slight bias against coconut oil, since much of its fatty acid content is "saturated fats", and a lot of science says that polyunsaturated and monounsaturated are nutritionally superior, so I am much interested in understanding the differences and similarities of the three oil types.

31 posted on 12/17/2010 5:33:59 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

> “ a lot of science says that polyunsaturated and monounsaturated are nutritionally superior”

.
I knew instantly that this was false when I read it, but I couldn’t find the articles that properly dealt with it, but I finally found one of them:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fats_and_cancer.html


32 posted on 12/23/2010 8:18:21 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
I'd feel better about this guy's science if not for this section, which is completely misleading, and implies that the organic solvents used are the toxic equivalents of benzene. The largest used such extraction chemical is HEXANE, and the only commonality it has with benzene is that it has six carbon atoms. Hexane has never even been hinted at as a possible carcinogen. And the rest of his screed about the other oil-processing steps is equally false.

"In 1989, the petroleum-based solvent, benzene, that is known to cause cancer, was found in Perrier mineral water at a mean concentration of fourteen parts per billion. This was enough to cause Perrier to be removed from supermarket shelves. The first process in the manufacture of margarine is the extraction of the oils from the seeds, and this is usually done using similar petroleum-based solvents. Although these are then boiled off, this stage of the process still leaves about ten parts per million of the solvents in the product. That is 700 times as much as fourteen parts per billion."

If he is that ignorant of (or deliberately lying about)these chemical processes, why should I put credence that the rest of the article isn't similarly BS, and his selection of articles on health effects "cherry-picked"?

33 posted on 12/24/2010 3:07:55 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

> “I’d feel better about this guy’s science if not for this section, which is completely misleading, and implies that the organic solvents used are the toxic equivalents of benzene...”

.
I can see now that you are being deliberately obtuse. That was not what he was implying. Whether the solvents have been studied for their helth implications, or not (in this case not) the residuals are very significant, in that they are not substances that occur naturally in living organisms, and thus are not suitable in foods.

Consume that which you wish, but don’t attack sound reasoning just to be cute.


34 posted on 12/24/2010 9:58:17 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"I can see now that you are being deliberately obtuse. That was not what he was implying. Whether the solvents have been studied for their helth implications, or not (in this case not) the residuals are very significant, in that they are not substances that occur naturally in living organisms, and thus are not suitable in foods."

Sorry, but no. I have no intention of being "obtuse", deliberately or otherwise. The effects of hexane, by both inhalation and ingestion, have been studied at higher levels than referred to here, in both animals and humans, and the data and toxicology are known. Ten ppm of hexane is totally safe, in food or not. Ten ppm of benzene is a totally different matter, and "is" unsafe. The author of the article is either completely ignorant of chemistry or being deliberately misleading.

"....but don’t attack sound reasoning just to be cute."

Garbage. I'm attacking BAD SCIENCE. Maybe the rest of his statements and conclusions in the article are perfectly legit...I'm not enough of an expert to judge, but in the area of the effects of chemicals, I "am" an expert, and his comments on extraction solvents are totally and flatly WRONG.

35 posted on 12/24/2010 6:49:21 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: editor-surveyor

Here’s more data than anyone could ever want:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp113-c2.pdf

The exposures examined here are FAR higher than the supposed 10 ppm in the oil.


36 posted on 12/25/2010 3:28:24 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

You should have read the material before posting the link.


37 posted on 12/25/2010 10:41:27 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"You should have read the material before posting the link."

I did read it. The concentrations of ANY health effect are orders of magnitude higher than the 10 ppm level for the level found in the solvent extracted oil. The LOWEST exposure that I saw in the CRC document is 500ppm. If you think differently, then you probably don't understand the material correctly.

But why don't you go ahead and point out exactly what it is that you think you've found to the contrary.

38 posted on 12/25/2010 12:15:13 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

Nothing in that link was based on any experience with humans, or even chimps. It was all lab rats.

How many rat lifespans does it take for the effects of most environmental toxins to become evident in humans? You have a handful of little pictures, but are completely unaware that the big picture even exists.


39 posted on 12/25/2010 12:37:07 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"Nothing in that link was based on any experience with humans, or even chimps. It was all lab rats."

Read it again. There is plenty of human data included.

Certainly most of the controlled laboratory experiments used animal models (not just rats). Unlike the Nazis, we don't "do" controlled studies using humans, but there is this field of study called "epidemiology", which uses statistical methods to extract health effects data from populations who voluntarily expose themselves to higher levels in their work and lives. There is reference after reference to such studies, both in the link I posted and elsewhere.

"How many rat lifespans does it take for the effects of most environmental toxins to become evident in humans? You have a handful of little pictures, but are completely unaware that the big picture even exists."

It's obvious in your case that one can lead an ass to data, but you can't make him think. The comment is complete garbage. AT MINIMUM, we absolutely KNOW that benzene is significantly more toxic than hexane (of course we really know a lot more than that), but if you refuse to acknowledge the fundamental concept that "the dose makes the poison" then it is useless to try to have a science-based discussion with you.

40 posted on 12/25/2010 1:03:59 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

You keep on doing battle with strawmen:

>> “AT MINIMUM, we absolutely KNOW that benzene is significantly more toxic than hexane...” <<


41 posted on 12/25/2010 2:55:00 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
"...but if you refuse to acknowledge the fundamental concept that "the dose makes the poison""

Interesting that your views are opposite those of Drs. Fred and Alice Ottoboni who made that phrase famous.

42 posted on 12/25/2010 3:04:40 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
“AT MINIMUM, we absolutely KNOW that benzene is significantly more toxic than hexane...”

Nothing "strawmanly" about that statement at all. It goes directly to the heart of the argument that "your hero" made in the article you linked upthread. Specifically, he says that benzene and hexane should be regulated to the same "safe dose". If you disagree that benzene is more toxic than hexane, then there is no hope for you. The difference in relative toxicity of the two chemicals is an accepted FACT of science. There is no possible justification for regulating them to identical levels. Based on that, I assume you believe, for instance, sodium cyanide is no more toxic than sodium chloride??

43 posted on 12/26/2010 7:26:17 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: editor-surveyor
"Interesting that your views are opposite those of Drs. Fred and Alice Ottoboni who made that phrase famous."

I fail to see how the linked article has anything whatsoever to do with what we are talking about. Are you just simply insane, randomly posting whatever strikes your fancy at the current moment, or what.

44 posted on 12/26/2010 7:26:37 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

It has everything to do with what we are talking about.

Your promotion of poly unsaturated oils is un healthy, and that is the position of real scientists such as the Ottobonis.

You appear to be here to offer confusion and misdirection, or else, why this absurd comment?


45 posted on 12/26/2010 3:12:48 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: Wonder Warthog

>> “ I assume you believe, for instance, sodium cyanide is no more toxic than sodium chloride??” <<

Love your strawman arguments; keep on fighting them, its great exercise.


46 posted on 12/26/2010 3:14:50 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"Your promotion of poly unsaturated oils is un healthy, and that is the position of real scientists such as the Ottobonis."

I see you have reading comprehension problems as well. In my post, far from "promoting" unsaturated oils, I was simply saying that current accepted science says that the unsaturated oils are healthier. My own opinion is not formed on the question.

"You appear to be here to offer confusion and misdirection, or else, why this absurd comment?"

I'm trying to understand your position in advocating that relatively innocuous chemicals, such as hexane and sodium choloride, should be regulated to the same standard as more toxic chemicals, such as benzene and sodium cyanide.

This IS what your "real scientist" is advocating, which is contrary to all the facts and understandings of toxicology. If his judgment on this one point is this badly wrong (which it is), then why should I put any credence in his positions of saturated vs. unsaturated oils?

The only person obfuscating around here is YOU. You have danced around vigorously, and failed to answer the above question. Repeatedly.

47 posted on 12/29/2010 4:29:17 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

>> “I was simply saying that current accepted science says that the unsaturated oils are healthier.” <<

.
But no ‘science’ has ever offered that idea. It has been a political position from the start, with ADM and P&G calling the shots to pormote their products through government meddling.

.
>> “I’m trying to understand your position in advocating that relatively innocuous chemicals, such as hexane and sodium choloride, should be regulated to the same standard as more toxic chemicals, such as benzene and sodium cyanide.” <<

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Back to the old stand-by strawman method huh?

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>> This IS what your “real scientist” is advocating, which is contrary to all the facts and understandings of toxicology <<

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Horse manure! - Fred and Alice Ottoboni are the Gold Standard in toxicology, world wide.

(or did you mean the other article?)

If it is this one you mean: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fats_and_cancer.html

You’re still blowing acrid smoke. You jump on one out of more than ten toxic intermediary processes that are mentioned in the article, and totally ignore all the primary arguments.

Groves doesn’t rely solely on his own work or opinion, he lists 19 peer reviewed, published references, are you prepared to slay them all?

References
1. Gofman, J W, et al. The role of lipids and lipoproteins in atherosclerosis. Science 1950; 111: 166-181, 186

2. Keys A. Atherosclerosis: a problem in newer public health. J Mt Sinai Hosp 1953; 20: 118-139.

3. Mann G V. Diet-heart: End of an Era. New Eng J Med . 1977; 297: 644.

4. Carroll K K. Dietary fats and cancer. Am J Clin Nutr 1991; 53: 1064S.

5. France T, Brown P. Test-tube cancers raise doubts over fats. New Scientist , 7 December 1991, p 12.

6. Newsholme E A. Mechanism for starvation suppression and refeeding activity of infection. Lancet 1977; i: 654.

7. Miller JD, et al. Br Med J 1973; i: 765.

8. Uldall PR, et al . Lancet 1974; ii: 514.

9. Pearce M L, Dayton S. Incidence of cancer in men on a diet high in polyunsaturated fat. Lancet 1971; i: 464.

10. American Heart Association Monograph, No 25. 1969.

11. Nauts HC. Cancer Research Institute Monograph No 18. 1984, p 91.

12. Mackie BS. Med J Austr 1974; 1: 810.

13. Karnauchow PN. Melanoma and sun exposure. Lancet 1995; 346: 915.

14. Kearney R. Promotion and prevention of tumour growth — effects of endotoxin, inflammation and dietary lipids. Int Clin Nutr Rev 1987; 7: 157.

15. Wolk A, et al. A Prospective Study of Association of Monounsaturated Fat and Other Types of Fat With Risk of Breast Cancer. Arch Intern Med . 1998; 158: 41-45

16. Ip C, Scimeca J A, Thompson H J. Conjugated linoleic acid. A powerful anticarcinogen from animal fat sources. Cancer 1994; 74(3 Suppl): 1050-4.

17. Shultz T D, Chew B P, Seaman W R, Luedecke L O. Inhibitory effect of conjugated dienoic derivatives of linoleic acid and beta-carotene on the in vitro growth of human cancer cells. Cancer Letters 1992; 63: 125-133.

18. Lin H, Boylston TD, Chang MJ, Luedecke LO, Schultz TD. Survey of the conjugated linoleic acid contents of dairy products. J Dairy Sci . 1995; 78: 2358-65.

19. Cox BD, Whichelow MJ. Frequent consumption of red meat is not a risk factor for cancer. Br Med J 1997; 315: 1018.


48 posted on 12/29/2010 9:42:41 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"But no ‘science’ has ever offered that idea. It has been a political position from the start, with ADM and P&G calling the shots to pormote their products through government meddling."

Ah, a "natural foodie" nutcase. Thanks for finally outing yourself.

"Back to the old stand-by strawman method huh?"

Erroneous toxicology isn't a "strawman". It is central to the question.

"(or did you mean the other article?)

Yes.

"You’re still blowing acrid smoke. You jump on one out of more than ten toxic intermediary processes that are mentioned in the article, and totally ignore all the primary arguments."

Equating benzene with hexane isn't a "toxic intermediary process", it's simply wrong science. And anybody who makes such a claim has outed themselves as a "natural foods nutcase" of the "all processed foods are bad, only natural foods are acceptable" camp. The toxicity claim is so outrageously and ridiculously wrong that it negates anything else he might say or have said.

"Groves doesn’t rely solely on his own work or opinion, he lists 19 peer reviewed, published references, are you prepared to slay them all?"

Irrelevant to the point I continue to make, and you keep claiming is a "strawman". You keep trying to defend the indefensible. Your "hero" was wrong on a fundamental point of science, and you just cannot bring yourself to admit it.

49 posted on 12/30/2010 11:31:34 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

No, it was a complete strawman, since I was defending nothing, and there was nothing to defend, since on “equation” made; it was just the onlt straw you could grasp.

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Natural foods? - Absolutely, but I will defend your right to poison yourself to your heart’s content.
.


50 posted on 01/01/2011 3:19:35 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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