Pickens Plan no longer features wind energy

msnbc ^ | 12/14/2010 | By Jennifer Alsever

[tobyhill]

Oil tycoon T. Boone Pickens' TV commercials blasted the airwaves in 2008 with his big idea to get America off foreign oil imports: natural gas and wind energy.

Two years later, let’s just make that natural gas.

Since the billionaire’s plans for the world’s largest wind farm fell apart in the Texas Panhandle, Pickens has edited his much-hyped “Pickens Plan” to focus primarily on his other big business interest: natural gas.

Touting 1.7 million Pickens Plan supporters, he’s now pushing Congress to pass legislation that would offer incentives to convert 18-wheelers and fleet vehicles to run on compressed natural gas, or CNG, rather than diesel. He said if just 8 million of those trucks switch to the domestic-produced fuel, it could cut in half the amount of foreign oil imported by the United States.

[rstrahan]

CNG is a viable idea. Better that than electrocars

[Ditto]

Machine Design magazine has run a series of articles questioning if there is ANY net electrical output from wind farms.

From a macro standpoint and looking at the stand-by power that has to be idling just to balance load or make up for loss of wind, it is generally either low or negative.

Putting it on the grid is insanity. Using it where there is reliable wind for some off grid power source would be fine. But mixing an undispatchable and intermittent source like wind with the grid simply drives up costs to no net benefit.

Overall, it makes just as much sense as ethanol. It only exists for the free government money.

[kittymyrib]

Well, at least his plan to get big taxpayer bucks with his natural gas keeps him from trying to steal the water from under the TX Panhandle and pipe it to the Metroplex (Dallas/Ft. Worth), at someone else’s expense, of course.

Whatever happened to the good idea that men in their 80s should get off the national stage and go fishing?

[surfer]

Water is Pickens game. He just got his “property” re-classified as a “town” so he can use eminent domain to capture property to build pipelines to sell his precious water.

Texas has a land rights clause that states if you can access resources through your land it doesn’t matter how far that resource goes.

In Picken’s case it is a natural aquifer that stretches north across several states...he will suck that dry and sell it all...

Pickens is a smart cookie but not a very nice one.

Water is the next oil.

[Ditto]

There ain't no hustler like and old hustler.

You got to give it to T. Boone. The boy don't ever give up on a good hustle.

[dusttoyou]

GHW Bush and GW Bush have bought a large acreage in Paraguay, which ALSO sits over a gi-normous aquifer.

Not knowing what Paraguay’s Water Rights law is, would be real surprised if it was same as Texas’ “Right of Capture”.

Lot of These South American countries will “let” you own the surface and reserve the minerals and water for the government.

[lonestar]

I think Pickens is into water, also...water rights.

[Smokin' Joe]

The US is completely self sufficient and would not require any foreign (i.e Middle east) imports.

Natural gas producing reserves deplete pretty rapidly. Without continued drilling and current (or more advanced) hydrofracking, especially in light of restrictions on drilling, both in place and planned by the Government, and proposed restrictions on hydrofracking, that supply will deplete in short order.

We have to not only drill here, drill now, but we have to keep doing so or we're back to square one--importing.

[steelyourfaith]

Jason Lewis, substitute host for El Rushbo, August 11, 2008 on the E.I.B Network:

"The federal government has to subsidize windmill production through production tax credits of about 1.8¢ per kilowatt. Wind Farms also receive an accelerated depreciation. Wind farms are also land intensive. They produce a fraction of the energy of a traditional power plant but they require 100 times the acreage.

From the National Center for Policy Analysis: to produce a 1000 megawatt power plant a wind farm would require 192,000 acres or 300 square miles. A nuclear plant would need about 1700 acres (or 2.65 mi²), and about 3 mi² for a coal fired power plant. The transmission lines for the wind turbines would be massive, 12,000 miles just for the array."

 

 

Beam me to Planet Gore !

[thackney]

NG rules for one very important reason: The US is completely self sufficient and would not require any foreign (i.e Middle east) imports.

While we should become independent in Natural Gas with the expansion of Shale Gas Production, we are not there yet.

U.S. Natural Gas Imports by Country
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_m.htm

If some politicians have their way, like in New York, Shale Gas will get shut down.

New York governor halts gas "fracking" until July
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/New-York-governor-halts-gas-rb-3854988538.html?x=0&.v=1&.pf=personal-finance&mod=pf-personal-finance
Saturday December 11, 2010

[O6ret]

It’s just a matter of time. Worldwide demand for oil, especially in China and India, will ultimately drive the price of the black stuff back over $100 and force it to happen.

[MrB]

Hey, don’t you dare blow my application for a grant for “perpetual motion research”!

[Mr. Lucky]

You're exactly right.

The business model of pumping the grid (with wind or solar)is what makes no sense.