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Investors Who Cashed Out Madoff Funds Before The Fall Are Guilty of Being Rich
PBS ^ | 12/17/2010 | Hari Sreenivasan

Posted on 12/18/2010 12:30:04 AM PST by ExxonPatrolUs

If you're rich, you're guilty of profit. Hand it over!



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: gone; justice; madoff; wild

1 posted on 12/18/2010 12:30:10 AM PST by ExxonPatrolUs
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Not sure if I understand...

The guy cashes out....

Dies....

7 billion of his estate going to Madoff victims?

Why not his heirs?

Help me on this...


2 posted on 12/18/2010 12:52:19 AM PST by nikos1121 (Praying for the big -24 today and -27 by the end of the month.)
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Making money off of others misfortune is the dream of capitalism.


3 posted on 12/18/2010 1:06:16 AM PST by Tempest (I put money ahead of people)
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To: nikos1121
Totally. His own widow is the one who willingly volunteered to surrender the funds as well. Can you believe that!!! The audacity of her!!!

The guys finally wishes were that the bulk of his fortune go to charity in order to help the less fortunate. I can't imagine a more unamerican endeavor.

This entire action reeks of of commie socialist communism...

4 posted on 12/18/2010 1:09:23 AM PST by Tempest (I put money ahead of people)
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To: Tempest

>> Making money off of others misfortune is the dream of capitalism.

Pathetic, ignorant BS.


5 posted on 12/18/2010 1:13:29 AM PST by Gene Eric (Your Hope has been redistributed. Here's your Change.)
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To: nikos1121

That’s because this is a poorly done PBS report. This guy goes way back with Madoff and apparently was paid so much more, at such a higher rate, than anyone else that the suspicion is that he was in on the scheme—though he died last year and charges haven’t been filed against him. It was actually a couple of billion that the estate filed to recover from him, but his widow decided to cough up the whole profit.


6 posted on 12/18/2010 1:56:36 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: All
Jeffry Picower took out profits totalling $7.2B----making the Florida "philanthropist" the biggest beneficiary of Madoff's $65B Ponzi scheme. As a savvy businessman and investor, Picower should have known 950% was an outlandish return.....when the stock market was returning 9%.

A lawyer representing 100 Madoff victims suggests it was no accident that Picower was one of the few Madoff customers who profited from the scheme. CBS' 60 Minutes reported that in Madoff's detailed notes, he revealed Jeffrey Picower---a major Planned Parenthood backer---was receiving a 950% return, indicating Picower was in on the scheme and profitied at the expense of others.

=====================================

REFERENCE The trustee ID'ing Madoff's assets unearthed a labyrinth of interrelated intl funds, institutions and entities of almost unparalleled complexity and breadth with assets and businesses in 11 places overseas. No question, tax evasion and money laundering was the name of the game for wealthy investors funneling income to Madoff. Wealthy businessmen posing as "philanthropists" hid hundreds of millions in annual income.

Some investors were suckered in to make the scheme look legit. The suckers helped payoff wealthy investors like Picower who made deals with Bernie. Wealthy deal makers like Picower got back more than they put in.

REFERENCE Madoff ran several scams simultaneously:
(1) a Ponzi fraud that made him and his family wealthy;
(2) laundering tax-free money for phony "charities,"
(3) IRS fraud facilitation for the wealthy;
(4) a protection racket (shielding investors from L/E);
(5) laundering tax-free money destined for big buck campaign contributions (campaign fraud).

Here's another "lucky" Madoff investor. Ira Rennert, Fifth Avenue Synagogue board chair, and Chairman of Yeshiva University Investment Committee, invested some $200 million w/ Madoff.

Rennert's Hamptons Mega Mansion, Sagaponack, NY. The complex rivals Versailles and Buckingham Palace. Rennert says he is Founder of Renco Group. This obscenely gargantuan mansion, dubbed Fairfield, is reportedly the largest occupied residential compound in America Square Feet: 66,000 / 110,000 (including outbuildings). It is situated on 63 prime acres and houses 29 bedrooms and 39 bathrooms. It also has a dining room that stretches 90 feet long, a bowling alley, two tennis courts, a squash court, a 164 seat movie theater, and a 200 car garage. This home also contains a rather rare item; its own power plant. Fairfield is currently valued at more than $185 illion. Hamptonites complain this astoundingly palatial mega-mansion in the posh Hamptons is actually a "synagogue-residence-yeshiva" for Orthodox Judaism students.

7 posted on 12/18/2010 1:57:03 AM PST by Liz
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To: All
THE RELIGIOUS, SOCIAL, AND BUSINESS LABYRINTH
(4800 INVESTORS) MADOFF USED TO RAKE IN BILLIONS.

MAP IS INTERACTIVE AT WEB SITE http://news.muckety.com/2008/12/28/madoff-used-social-family-networks-to-rake-in-billions/9031

8 posted on 12/18/2010 1:59:32 AM PST by Liz
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To: Gene Eric
Hey if they're too stupid to not realize that they're being cheated it's too bad for them obviously the person lying to them is the superior individual because he has the intelligence to deceive them.

Deception = high intelligence.

9 posted on 12/18/2010 2:45:56 AM PST by Tempest (I put money ahead of people)
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To: nikos1121
Help me on this...

Ponzi schemes are illegal. Any proceeds or profits obtained from one are considered ill-gotten gains just as receiving stolen property is. Ignorance of the originating crime doesn't absolve those downstream, same as property crimes.
10 posted on 12/18/2010 2:50:47 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: nikos1121

Whenever this topic,or one like it appears on any forum there is a division down the lines of it’s class warfare versus it’s thievery. Its not easy. How do we distinguish between the one person that took their money out,unknowing of the crime as opposed to someone that left theirs in which would seem to be obviously unwittingly? How do we determine that someone knew of the crime and benefited? I have to say that however it is handled,it must be handled in an equal manner. Fraud was committed and much money spent and not recoverable. No matter the eventual resolution for the investors nobody will be entirely happy.


11 posted on 12/18/2010 3:31:02 AM PST by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: Tempest
Making money off of others['] misfortune is the dream of capitalism.

You're wrong. Exactly how did Henry Ford or Thomas Edison or Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Richard Branson dream of making money off others' misfortune? Can you cite even one instance?

12 posted on 12/18/2010 3:55:07 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Socialists are to economics what circle squarers are to math; undaunted by reason or derision.)
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To: Tempest

Piwowar was a major funder of Planned Parenthood and thus, with and through his funding, he was responsible for the extermination of endless unborn children. And the fact that his fortune is being seized to repay those from whom the money is stolen is divine justice at its finest.


13 posted on 12/18/2010 4:51:21 AM PST by Ghotier
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To: SpaceBar

That is how I see it too.


14 posted on 12/18/2010 5:34:05 AM PST by Maine Mariner
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To: SpaceBar

There was an interesting Federal court case a while back involving a charity that had received a large donation from the estate of someone who (it was later learned) had stolen the money in some kind of white-collar criminal enterprise. I seem to remember that the basis of the court case was the question about whether the IRS and/or proscutors could legally force the charity to give the money back years later. I think the court came down on the side of the IRS/prosecutor in that case, for the reasons you mentioned here.


15 posted on 12/18/2010 5:36:50 AM PST by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

Maybe they were tipped off - in which case they’re part of the crime.


16 posted on 12/18/2010 5:38:51 AM PST by GOPJ (Best App for 'the world" : http://www.questvisual.com/)
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To: nikos1121

Madoff might have tipped off his friends - told them to get out before the feds moved in... In that case they would be part of the crime.


17 posted on 12/18/2010 5:40:04 AM PST by GOPJ (Best App for 'the world" : http://www.questvisual.com/)
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To: Tempest

If you’re not being sarcastic, you might be at the wrong web site. That kind of thinking is owned by the looney left...


18 posted on 12/18/2010 5:41:38 AM PST by GOPJ (Best App for 'the world" : http://www.questvisual.com/)
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To: nikos1121

It’s easy....

Items 2 and 3 from Marx’s Communist Manifesto.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.

I am starting to piece together that almost everything the left does is right out of Marx’s book.


19 posted on 12/18/2010 7:09:44 AM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: ExxonPatrolUs

The federal and state taxes paid by those who made money on the Madoff scheme should be returned to the victims.

Why should the government prosper from this!?

Waiting to hear the gov offer the victims the money....(crickets chirping)


20 posted on 12/18/2010 7:23:12 AM PST by Bobalu ( "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." ..Moshe Dayan:)
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To: Dutch Boy

There is definitely a mind set so much different than that of true Americans.

These GD Republicans are already compromising with these bast*rds again.

We can criticize Palin for this or that, but AGAIN she is right on the money criticizing the republicans caving in on this tax bill, that is FULL of more govt debt and handouts.

5 billion for that POS ethanol subsidy etc etc etc.

Then we have the DReam Act and Start to contend with DADT etc.

Is there anyone out there? Anyone who can stop this downward spiral of our “Last Days of the American Empire?” in our life time?

My God, we have almost two more years of this idiot in the WH.


21 posted on 12/18/2010 8:51:49 AM PST by nikos1121 (Praying for the big -24 today and -27 by the end of the month.)
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To: nikos1121
"These GD Republicans are already compromising with these bast*rds again."

The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party.

22 posted on 12/18/2010 8:56:36 AM PST by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: SpaceBar
If the investor knew of the Ponzi scheme I agree, but let's say you and I invested 1 million dollars with Madoff ten years ago...and after 5 years we cashed in for 5 million. We had no knowledge of any fraud on Madoff’s part. We took our profit and reinvested them elsewhere....with other proftis from other sources. From that time to the present we made money but we also lost 6 million.

Are you telling me, that you and I would be in jeopardy of owing 5 million to those who kept their money in?

Nonsense.

I believe the key here is “knowing of the fraud” thereby you are an accomplice Now if this guy cashed in all his chips recently, then that smacks of being on the inside. Seems like the attorney representing the losers, is going after anyone or anything (banks etc) who made any money from Madoff at any time. I guess they have no other alternative. So then in the end only the losers are reimbursed? This is silly.

23 posted on 12/18/2010 9:04:13 AM PST by nikos1121 (Praying for the big -24 today and -27 by the end of the month.)
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To: Bobalu

You make a good point.

After reading the commentary here, it appears clear that
this guy Picower was in on it. If not he should have known.

But on the other hand, why would someone not cash in some of their investment when it reached such a return to at least cover the original investment?

Why? Greed.

These celebs kept thinking the pot would get bigger and bigger.

I like the comment that Picower was a huge contributor to planned parenthood.


24 posted on 12/18/2010 9:09:46 AM PST by nikos1121 (Praying for the big -24 today and -27 by the end of the month.)
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To: Tempest

Small to mid-size companies that thrive on deception don’t last.

Capitalism is ultimately about profiting from efficiency, innovation, and unique offerings.

FWIW, I’m not talking about corporations partnered with the govt that monopolize markets, properties, and resources.


25 posted on 12/18/2010 5:38:55 PM PST by Gene Eric (Your Hope has been redistributed. Here's your Change.)
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To: nikos1121
I believe the key here is “knowing of the fraud”

Then you believe wrong.
26 posted on 12/18/2010 7:20:16 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: SpaceBar

When did the fraud start? AT the beginning or later....

You invest money at a mutual fund in good faith, and some where along the way....the fund turns into a Ponzi scheme...because of embezzlement...

Sorry, because if what you say is true...then:

1. Why is the gov’t entitled to the taxes that were paid during the “illegal” payouts?
2. Why are any of these celeb investor entitled to any money and those who cashed in and got their money are NOT?
3. Who is more entitled? What is the pecking order of who has priority to be reimbursed?

I find this nothing more than an opportunity for the attorneys plaintiff, to pierce through and bring the banks, individuals etc to court where they can either fight or settle....

But sounds like the banks are fighting very very hard to keep any money that came out of this...I’m assumig they earned millions of money from Madoff and other’s investment at their bank...So you’re saying the banks must give the money back, because the guy depositing his money there was crook...

I guess we’ll see how this pans out...

Clearly, though...having read everything thus far, I’d say this guy was on the take with Madoff or had inside knowledge...cashed out....and basically left his wife holdin the bag....

I’m amazed however that the charities are not grabbing for that money....I’ve seen these charities come in the homes of people who haven’t been dead for more than a couple hours to take silver dollars and what not from the deceased in front of family memebers....

I doubt very much that they’re going to sit back and let the widow give their money away....


27 posted on 12/19/2010 10:05:34 AM PST by nikos1121 (Praying for the big -24 today and -27 by the end of the month.)
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