maybe if you are in a degree program with no job prospects after you graduate... my degree is what made all things possible, no way would i be where i am today without it
Posted on 12/24/2010 6:20:07 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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Let's recap the latter: According to Craig Brandon, author of The Five-Year Party, the average time spent completing college is now approximately six years. Private schools on average charge approximately $25,000 per year and a student who would have made an average of $10 per hour in a full-time job loses approximately $20,000 per year.
So the combination of tuition and lost earnings is $45,000 per year--$270,000 over six years. For various reasons, most notably lower tuition at public colleges, I'm reducing my cost estimate there to $200,000. There are plenty of reasons to raise or lower it: public vs. private tuition levels, resident vs. non-resident prices, and of course various forms of subsidy and student aid (which are still costs, just not borne by the student directly).
On the other hand, there are uncounted costs in the college experience, such as social spending money, clothes, computers and transportation.
Since most students borrow for college, I could have added interest costs, and that would have made college tuition an even less attractive option. Any minimally competent investor understands that when he uses borrowed money to purchase a security, he must account for the added cost when calculating his real yield. If he borrows at 3% to invest in a stock which yields 5%, his real yield is 2%.
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Remember, your initial decision is not whether to get a four-year degree; it is whether to enroll at all. Everyone at least plans on graduating, but a large minority never will. What's their earnings advantage? Is it even a positive number? Does someone who drops out of college make more or less money than someone who went straight into the job market?
(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...
When you go to college you effectively reduce your total work life (assuming you will retire at a set age like 65) so you are not just losing the minimum wage job you could of been working during those years... you are losing several years that you could of been earning maximum salary before you retire.
This leaves off the fact that employers use a college degree as a filter, rather than evidence of any training or accomplishment.
$200K for six years of getting laid, smoking dope, and learning Marxism?
It's a bargain!
There remain pockets of sanity where employers refer to college graduates as snot-nosed college kids, and that’s cleaning it up considerably.
Some employers would rather hire a high school escapee with dyslexia, as long as he has a history of showing up on time and producing a dependable output of work.
I live and breathe close to a college of some glory in the academic community. The “students” are mainly hedonistic morons working hard toward life degrees in Alcoholism, with a minor in Self-Esteem.
maybe if you are in a degree program with no job prospects after you graduate... my degree is what made all things possible, no way would i be where i am today without it
Parents largely don’t get it. The merits of college are starting to sound like a medieval myth — like Atlantis or the existence of elves with magic powers. Something everyone believes and nobody examines critically.
Before you devote a hundred grand or two, why not spend a few days hanging around a college? Sit in on a class, follow the kids around, talk to them in the local gin mills and hear how they talk (dirty) and think (not). Observe their teachers, who are often no better.
Then think about whether your kid has the smarts and the sense to get into a trade school instead.
You won’t be sorry.
I agree with the author that there are too many people in college now (many don’t belong there) and some degrees aren’t worth squat. But the stats still show that college graduates do much better of the course of their lifetimes than non grads. Does that mean this is always true? Of course not, but you have to go with the averages. If you want to be an electrician or a plumber, then don’t go to college.
Also, it not always about dollars and cents. Some people might actually like French Lit, whether or not they can get a job with a degree or not. And some women still go to college to get their MRS degree. In the end, its people’s money. They can do with it what they will.
My 24 y.o. son just completed a truck driving course at a tech school. There was a recruiting war to hire him. Every company he applied to offered him a job.
All of his five older siblings went to college. But he took a different course in life and I’m proud of him.
You don't ask "is your son going to 'trade school' without asking what is he learning...
Conversely, what is better, a humanities degree from an Ivy or an Engineering degree from State U. ? I mean it is apples and oranges.
My neighbors nearly went crazy when their youngest son said he didn't want to go to college because he enjoyed being an electrican. Right now he is the only one of their 3 kids who is employed but his parents still have not forgiven him.
What does a new truck driver get to start?
There are four year colleges with lots of hands-on training and work experience requirements as part of their curriculums. Northeastern in Boston is one. The various state maritime colleges are others.
One reason at least some students go to college is because it is a required credential to enter an occupation. To be able to even sit for the CPA license one must have at least a BA or BS degree-at one point a fifth year was required (maybe still is).
The author is not dealing with those who are receiving degrees with skills that businesses in the 21st century needs, but those that don’t have such skills after 4 years.
He asks -— what do you get for your money? No one knows for sure. Certainly college grads make more on average than non-college grads. Less than $5,000 per year initially, on a take-home pay basis. That’s not much, and it’s the reason why you don’t typically break even on tuition until the age of 35.
It’s also one of the reasons for the new “broke at 30” and “boomerang generation” trends. It is impossible to know exactly how much of that small difference in income is due to the degree and not due to the talent and tenacity of the graduate. The author went for the conservative estimate and assigned $2,000 per year to the degree.
Some critics complained that this is an initial earnings number, but that’s how price-earnings ratios work. They’re supposed to be based on cash flow, not hope. Over time the college degree earnings surplus (College Education) generally grows, but so, generally, do stock earnings. So, generally, do non-college-degree-holders’ earnings.
He also Of acknowledges that some degrees are better than others. Generically a bachelor’s degree holds a value of roughly 100 to 1, price to earnings, but an engineering degree is certainly more attractively valued. Accountants and actuaries are also looking at a better proposition, as are a number of other generally mathematically demanding careers.
But in finishing the math: If the average P/E hovers somewhere around 100 and there are occupations which represent a much lower P/E, then by the simple logic of averages, there must be a countervailing set of P/E’s over 100. In other words, the more vehemently you make the case that a chemical engineering degree is a great deal, then the stronger is the case that sports communication (e.g.) is a rotten deal. That’s the only way to keep the average where it is.
Of course, there are the difficult to quantify social benefits. And there are the impossible to quantify intangible benefits. But precisely how much money are we willing to allocate for these incalculables?
Assuming a parent had $200,000 for a kid’s college education in an expensive private university, what would be the better proposition, setting him/her up in her own business (maybe a franchise), or having him/her major in English or French literature?
But we don't want our bridges designed by trial and error. We want the first one done by an new engineer be based on the education and knowledge. It will be checked and reviewed by senior engineers, but there is insufficient skill from a high school grad to meet today's entry level requirements.
And the same in many other fields. But if you don't enter college with the desire and drive to exit with a employable skill, you will most likely be wasting your time and money.
If the person is getting a college degree in computer science or engineering or other business related area, then the investment of $250,000 is likely warrented.
But a degree is in Mid East Studies, Women’s Studies, or other propaganda, makes little sense.
Propaganda Studies make no sense if the price is only $1. But we have let our university system become Centers For Marxist Thought instead of colleges to give our children the skills to compete in a very competitive world.
It’s hard to calculate his annual pay. He will start at $.28 per mile.
The truck company that hired him pays a little less than others but my son liked their excellent benefit programs.
News Year’s Eve my son will take a bus to Charlotte and New Year’s Day will start his one week training. Then he’s back here to Atlanta for his on-the-road training. He’ll be driving solo when his trainer gives his okay.
Yea, I have a step son who was fortunate enough to have four years at state university paid for in total by his grandparents and mother.
Now 5 years in to the degree program, he is 10 hours short of spanish language from graduating with a degree in “communication” but shows no potential for ever being hired (or even applying) for a job.
But he can play the guitar in the coffee shops.......
What a waste of time and money.
the stats still show that college graduates do much better of the course of their lifetimes than non grads
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If the parents contributed $125,000 to a bond and the child worked for five years at $20,000 per year, there would be $225,000 in a bond. 40 years later that bond would be worth something like $2 million.
So if the kid has plans to get a degree in Marxist Propaganda, then the parent might want to influence the kid into a trade school.
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