Posted on 01/20/2011 12:31:12 AM PST by Pinkbell
Edited on 01/20/2011 1:07:41 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Yes it was fried rice but don’t let Michelle Obama know this!
You lost me on “so long as...,” O
Right and CHINA is a capitalist communist country....
The best totalitarian country !
Surely CHINA’s rise will bring a big “humanitarian progress”
as said OBAMAO.....
A communist supporting his own kind in Red China.
I wasn't trying to imply anyone should emulate China. If anything, I was advocating that China was trying to emulate the US. And that liberties, while still limited, is much better than in the past. And that as liberties are expanded, so goes the economy in tandum.
The reality is, many Americans want China to be a democracy (whether the full fledge type or "constitutional republic" type), without the material and technilogical benefits that freedom brings. Especially to a non-Western nation of 1.4 billion people. In other words, even if you could peer into a crystal ball and see 20-30 years into the future, and see a Chinese democracy at work, in tandum with a Chinese economy 2-3 times larger than the US, I'm convinced you would still oppose the rise of China. And you would come to realize, that the biggest angst Americans have towards China isn't her present form of government today, but rather her potential of displacing the US as the leading economic power. And military, unthinkable regardless of whether China is a democracy or not.
I get called a troll all the time because my points of view tend counter the alarmist views of China on the FR :)
Well, it is different. There is no bamboo curtain anymore. There is no iron rice bowl, no communes, no government collectivisation. No Mao, no Mao jackets, etc. Even free elections at the grass roots level.
And there are tens of thousands of protest riots every year in China. Something that would not have happened in the 50's and 60's. There may even more protest against the Chinese government in China than Americans protesting their own government here in the US.
And in many areas of social entitlements, the US is far more generous.
In conclusion, China is a much different country than in the past.
China is trying to copy some aspects of American money-making, and using the concept of a monolithic state ownership/oversight/involvement to get the most out of it on an international market.
But this aspect of copying “America” is no deeper than the Soviet attempt to copy a interred B-29 bomber down to the last bolt, even though that was pretty deep. The bomber never performed like the real one, and in the case of the economies, the Chinese economy will never perform like a free economy.
It is indisputable that there is a much larger middle class than ever before in China, as a rising tide will lift all boats, and it is also likely true that American government freebies are more available to American citizens than are Chinese government goodies to Chinese citizens, but this is not a case of the Chinese copying the USA but instead the USA becoming more monolithic and socialistic. That the gap in this respect is narrowing is not due to China coming to our level, but instead, us going to theirs.
The bottom line is, if you cross the government in China, you have no more rights today than you had in 1960. If they wish to make a case out of you for whatever reason, you have no options for recourse. That has not changed. The leash is just a little longer, and there is a cotton glove holding the end of it instead of an iron one.
And I will add that the Chinese economy is on track to eventually outperform ours, and it is mainly because the US economy is no longer free.
The US government is not a friend of business, and particularly with this administration, it is doing everything it can to destroy industry through regulation, litigation and taxation.
I highly doubt the Chinese economy labors under the same type of yoke.
Well, the Chinese government knows it has to allow a free market economy to truely prosper. They want to use their currency as an international currency. And in order to do that, they have to allow it to be freely and fully convertible instead of controlling it so much. And there is a host of other free market activities they would like. The issue isn't if, but when. The timing. China wants a stronger footing in the world first through state capitalism. And they are able to maintain it for the time being since the developed world has a significantly higher per capita GDP. But as their per capita GDP grows, state capitalism will begin to reach its limit. With a per capita that is still significantly lower than most developed nations, state capitalism still works for China.
And for China's financial industry to compete with Wallstreet, etc., their companies have to be welcome to foreign exposure on their exchanges. And their valuations need to be based on transparency. So, yes, much of this is lacking today. But the goal is to someday establish itself in a global sense. Except on a much larger scale than even the US. Once again, China can survive on state capitalism because the rest of the world is still so much richer. But as they approach the developed world in wealth, they will need to alter their model. And it is in process now.
The bottom line is, if you cross the government in China, you have no more rights today than you had in 1960. If they wish to make a case out of you for whatever reason, you have no options for recourse. That has not changed. The leash is just a little longer, and there is a cotton glove holding the end of it instead of an iron one.
I believe the court system is much better than today. Still not like operating under a democracy, but better than in the past. But I tend to agree with your general idea, if not the severity, and that is, the government still does not tolerate challenge to the legitimacy of their rule. But even they know, that someday democracy is in their future. Whether that starts with democracy with no other competing party, as a start, I can't predict. But I do believe that democracy is coming. Just not now.
Note: this topic is from January 19, 2011.Thanks again La Enchiladita.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.