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George Schultz urges Obama to free Pollard
Jerusalem Post ^ | 1/12/11 | Gil Hoffmn

Posted on 01/26/2011 11:02:01 PM PST by dervish

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1 posted on 01/26/2011 11:02:04 PM PST by dervish
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To: SJackson; SunkenCiv

Related:

Former US Deputy A-G: Pollard didn’t harm US

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=205369


2 posted on 01/26/2011 11:04:20 PM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: dervish
I would like to be paid to consult on this issue. Maybe we can trade him for an American convicted of spying on Israel. Haven't heard of one.

Anyone, anyone, anyone

3 posted on 01/26/2011 11:08:24 PM PST by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.)
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To: dervish

As a matter of general principles, I do not forgive traitors. He should have been shot.

Having said that, since it’s too late to shoot him now and solely in the interest of more amenable relations with Israel, I would be not object to Pollard’s release as long as two conditions are applied:

1) He must renounce is US citizenship,

2) He must be forever banned from US territory.


4 posted on 01/26/2011 11:14:58 PM PST by Ronin ("Dismantle the TSA and send the screeners back to Wal-Mart.")
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To: Ronin

Treason and Espionage are not the same.

Pollard was a spy not a traitor. George Schultz and many others have now confirmed this.


5 posted on 01/26/2011 11:27:35 PM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: dervish
Sorry, Pollard did the crime-- he has to do the time.

Have any of you heard about a "false flag" operation? How did he know for sure that his Israeli contact was legit?

Secondly, he wasn't just passing data to Israel.

No, let this guy rot.

6 posted on 01/26/2011 11:29:22 PM PST by Lysandru
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To: dervish

So we release him, what 10 things do we get in return?

I ain’t for releasing that weasel unless we get more, a whole lot more, than the other side and they better be significant enough that it would be a scandal for them if it’s found out what they traded for a “boil” who by all rights should have been lanced long ago.


7 posted on 01/26/2011 11:30:32 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: dervish

He is an American citizen who gave American secrets to a foreign power. That fits my definition of treason.

You may choose to disagree.


8 posted on 01/26/2011 11:35:39 PM PST by Ronin ("Dismantle the TSA and send the screeners back to Wal-Mart.")
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To: dervish

The guy should have been hung a long time ago.


9 posted on 01/26/2011 11:43:29 PM PST by Plumberman27
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To: dervish

I have to wonder what the payoff was for the elderly Schultz to betray every principle he ever (allegedley) stood for. You don’t release traitors - - you hang them. Let this little weasel Pollard, who sold US secrets to whoever would pay him - - Pakistan, Israel, South Africa, even Australia! - - rot in prison until he’s dead.

And yes, this scumbag is a traitor. He was born in Texas and raised in the United States.
“Spy” my ass.


10 posted on 01/26/2011 11:44:26 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lysandru

“There is no evidence that Pollard intended to harm the United States or help its enemies.”

Officials active in the effort to bring about Pollard’s release noted that he was charged with one count of passing classified information to an ally “with no intent to harm the US.” They said that “no intent to harm the US” was legalese for there being no evidence that damage was done.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=205369


11 posted on 01/26/2011 11:45:25 PM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: dervish; ErnstStavroBlofeld

Without breaking guarded info, just curious, what info (or type of info) was it that Pollard gave up? I have forgotten the details.

Anyways, “returning documents” is ridiculous since they were probably copied and archived immediately upon receipt.

I remember reading that the nuclear release computer for the F-4 Phantom II had passed through the hands of Aviem Sella (iirc) one of the pilots on the 1981 Osirak raid.


12 posted on 01/26/2011 11:54:30 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Vendome

Ok, in exchange for releasing Pollard, we jail BJ Clintoon, a few of Clinton era top Democrat Congress-critters and Senators, and the CEO's of Hughes Aerospace, and Loral Communications for the deal they made providing missile tech to the Red Chinese.

It could take a while to haggle out who exactly other than Clinton, and maybe Gore (ok, ok, we can jail Gore too, shut up about him already, huh?) and no doubt the list of those being put on trail would need to be much longer than merely "ten" to ensure that ten were actually jailed, but what the heck, Pollard has done his time compared to some people we know...

Do we have a "deal"?

13 posted on 01/26/2011 11:59:40 PM PST by BlueDragon
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To: dervish
Thank God Obummer hates Israel or maybe he would do this. I don't care if Pollard only gave the Israelis the recipe to McDonalds Secret Sauce, his actions were illegal. He was tried and convicted fair and square. May he spend his years behind bars.


14 posted on 01/27/2011 12:07:45 AM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: BlueDragon; Vendome

That would be trial, not “trail”. But speaking of trails, some “frog-marching” of those going to trial could be thrown in for good measure...if you insist.


15 posted on 01/27/2011 12:10:21 AM PST by BlueDragon
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To: F15Eagle

This guy is interesting.Along with spying for Israel ,he was spying for South Africa.Pollard also stole classified documents related to the People’s Republic of China on behalf of his wife, who used the information to advance her personal business interests and kept them around the house, where they were discovered by investigating authorities when Pollard’s espionage activity came to light.The full extent of the information he gave to Israel has still not been officially revealed.


16 posted on 01/27/2011 12:17:11 AM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: ErnstStavroBlofeld

Interesting. Israel and South Africa.

I’m sure you know that William Burroughs wrote that in 1979 (?) a satellite with a Vela (Hotel obviously) package detected a double-flash off the coast of South Africa during a thunderstorm when there was an accidental break in the cloud cover. The story was that the South African navy was testing nuclear shells fired from SA navy ship along with the help of Israel. Since it was supposed to be a double-flash, I supposed it was a small fission-fusion weapon.

Don’t remember what year it was that South Africa gave up its nuclear weapons.

BTW, I’m 110% in favor of Israel having nuclear weapons to keep the arab/muslim hordes at bay.


17 posted on 01/27/2011 12:23:35 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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Oh and btw, I’m 110% against espionage against the United States. I’m guessing what Pollard did was serious enough to warrant what was done to him.

Along those same lines, I cannot understand how Israel could put Mordecai Vanunu on release. Obviously he doesn’t have any further info to give out, so I guess they’ve essentially got him in a cage or on a leash.


18 posted on 01/27/2011 12:26:24 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: F15Eagle

The South Africans dismantled their program in 1989.The Vela Hotel 6911 incident was proof positive that Israel and the South Africans were working together on nuclear weapons.The “flash” was produced by an Israeli-South African test code-named Operation Phenix.


19 posted on 01/27/2011 12:27:58 AM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: F15Eagle

As long as Mordecai Vanunu stays quiet he can do what he wants.


20 posted on 01/27/2011 12:29:31 AM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld
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To: Plumberman27

Like a rapist. He took something that cannot be returned. No amount of analysis can twist the simple fact that Pollard committed Treason. What is the punishment? He got it and as an example to all that think his way he must complete his sentence lest we have 1000’s more like him.


21 posted on 01/27/2011 12:42:25 AM PST by liberty or death
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To: BlueDragon

Naw...Trails is correct.

They are slugs.


22 posted on 01/27/2011 12:57:51 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: dervish

One day Mr. Pollard will leave prison and he will do so in a pine box.


23 posted on 01/27/2011 1:00:51 AM PST by trumandogz
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To: dervish
Good for George Schultz! Premier Begin understood that he was a good man unlike the viscerally anti-Semitic Weinberger.

Incidentally, the wiki leaks cables showed the massive spying that went on against Israel by Condelezza Rice.

No one should put airs on me.

24 posted on 01/27/2011 2:41:54 AM PST by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: kbennkc
Yosef Amit for one (third paragraph)

Next time try a search!Anyone anyone anyone?

25 posted on 01/27/2011 2:47:32 AM PST by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: Ronin
You may choose to disagree.

And the Constitution disagrees also: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Article III: Sec. 3

26 posted on 01/27/2011 2:53:30 AM PST by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: dervish

Free hell, let’s hang him and return the body.


27 posted on 01/27/2011 3:10:10 AM PST by org.whodat
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To: Stepan12
What are you suggesting, that we apologize to the poor man born in Texas for the misunderstanding, dust him off and send him on his way?
28 posted on 01/27/2011 4:00:49 AM PST by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: dervish

Espionage needs to be punished by execution.
Who was the recipient of the information should not matter.
A firing squad is needed.


29 posted on 01/27/2011 4:29:21 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Re-Elect President Sarah Palin 2016)
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To: reefdiver

dust hm off and send him to Israel!


30 posted on 01/27/2011 6:21:43 AM PST by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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To: reefdiver

dust hm off and send him to Israel!


31 posted on 01/27/2011 6:21:54 AM PST by Stepan12 (Palin & Bolton in 2012)
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Pollard was caught by prison officials trying to pass classified information even after he was convicted.

He should spend the rest of his life in jail as he is unrepentant.


32 posted on 01/27/2011 7:18:38 AM PST by WaterBoard
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To: WaterBoard

Any way, former Secretary of State George Schulz is not the face I would chose for pronouncements on the innocence of Pollard.

George Schultz has large personal history of involvement with AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and Israeli leaders. He is not impartial, but a hired gun.

“They are also wrong because Israel and its supporters have the right to try to influence U.S. policy.” - George P.Shultz

“Just how total Shultz had become in his passionate embrace of Israel was demonstrated a few months later. While in Israel in mid-October 1987, Shultz inaugurated the George Shultz Doctoral Fellowships at Tel Aviv University. He personally contributed $10,000 to the program, an extraordinary gesture by a secretary of state claiming to be a mediator in the Arab-Israel conflict (Glenn Frankel, Washington Post, October 19, 1987).”


33 posted on 01/27/2011 7:31:21 AM PST by WaterBoard
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To: Lancey Howard

“I have to wonder what the payoff was for the elderly Schultz to betray every principle he ever (allegedley) stood for. “

The Truth?


34 posted on 01/27/2011 9:22:40 AM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: dervish

I free Jonathan Pollard every morning.


35 posted on 01/27/2011 9:27:00 AM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: F15Eagle

This is from a pro Pollard site. Nevertheless much of the info is not in dispute but is historical — such as the US withholding intel from the Israelis in violation of a mu, conviction of espionage not treason, plea bargain was to avoid life sentence.

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/facts.htm


36 posted on 01/27/2011 9:42:10 AM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: trumandogz

“No one else in the history of the United States has ever received a life sentence for passing classified information to an ally - only Jonathan Pollard. The median sentence for this offense is two to four years. Even agents who have committed far more serious offenses on behalf of hostile nations have not received such a harsh sentence.”

why do you think that is?


37 posted on 01/27/2011 9:46:18 AM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: Stepan12

good point.

“The data involved Iranian, Syrian, Iraqi, and Lebanese ballistic missile development and nuclear and biological warfare capabilities. He also transmitted information on planned terrorist attacks against Israel, probably saving Israeli lives. The U.S. withheld this data from Israel despite a 1983 memorandum of understanding entitling Israel to such disclosure.”

http://bigpeace.com/rehrenfeld/2011/01/06/jonathan-pollard-should-be-released-but-not-as-an-obama-bargaining-chip/


38 posted on 01/27/2011 9:56:03 AM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: WaterBoard

citation please?


39 posted on 01/27/2011 9:57:28 AM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: dervish

SELLING secrets to China is not treason?

Pollard did harm U.S. interests. Pollard is a spy and a traitor.

I would have more sympathy for his claims of dual loyalty if he had not also SOLD our secrets to Israel. No, he didn’t give them away out of ideology, he SOLD them.

After he SOLD our secrets to Israel, he also SOLD our secrets to China.

The guy is lucky he isn’t feeding the worms.


40 posted on 01/27/2011 9:58:49 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: All

I know this isn’t the case with Pollard, but I tell ya what. If I ever somehow got my hands on documents indicating that the U.S. was planning on selling out Israel to the muzzies, you bet I’d hand ‘em over to the nearest Israeli embassy.


41 posted on 01/27/2011 10:03:24 AM PST by sand lake bar
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To: allmendream

citation please.

Why would George Schultz former Secretary of State, Laerence Korb a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense, Former CIA Director R. James Woolsey, Phillip Heyman former Deputy US AG all say Pollard did not harm US and advocate for his release if he had spied for China?


42 posted on 01/27/2011 10:12:52 AM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: dervish
Because they are paid hacks?

No damage? The Defense Department says differently....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/4/netanyahu-seeks-pardon-for-imprisoned-spy-pollard/

By the time he was caught, he caused enough damage to U.S. intelligence that, according to the Defense Department, it cost between $3 billion and $5 billion to fix because of what he compromised,” Mr. DiGenova said. “That the country he spied for is seeking clemency is not only unprecedented, it is a joke.”

Joseph DiGenova, the former U.S. attorney who prosecuted the case, said Tuesday that Pollard was a spy who was paid and who tried to entice others to join his operation.

Officials said at the time that the documents revealed information about the identities of U.S. and allied agents and electronic eavesdropping programs, as well as data that compromised codes used in secret communications.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/blogs/route_17/pollard_chinese_spy

Just because Pollard started off spying for Israel, and most Jews think Pollard was spying only for Israel, a new report from the Department of Defense, “Changes in Espionage by Americans: 1947-2007,” lists China, on Page 108, as a beneficiary, alongside Israel, of Pollard’s espionage.

43 posted on 01/27/2011 10:21:15 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: dervish
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/venona/dece_pollard.html

In 1993 Secretary of Defense Les Aspin reported that Pollard had tried 14 times to disclose classified information in letters written to various recipients from his prison cell.

Also....

then Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said, “It is difficult for me...to conceive of greater harm done to national security.”

By his own estimates Pollard passed to his Israeli handlers more than 800 classified publications and more than 1,000 cables, probably the largest cache of materials ever passed through espionage. At one point, when Pollard's new wife was hoping to clinch a job interview at an international public relations firm with branches in China, he brought home five secret studies on China. Her presentation was assessed as brilliant.

Me again....

Pollard also tried to sell/trade secrets with investors, revealing classified information that he thought could aid them in their investments, and for which he hoped to be rewarded later.

In short it seems that there wasn't much that Pollard wouldn't steal, and nobody he wouldn't sell it to.

44 posted on 01/27/2011 10:30:58 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: dervish

You think Obama will do it?


45 posted on 01/27/2011 12:53:34 PM PST by swarthyguy (KIDS! Deficit, Debt,Taxes! Pfft Lookit the bright side of our legacy -America is almost SmokFrei!)
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To: allmendream
In short it seems that there wasn't much that Pollard wouldn't steal, and nobody he wouldn't sell it to.

I also remember allegations that the little weasel had a cocaine habit he needed to support. Pollard was/is nothing more than an unprincipled, selfish piece of sh!+. He's probably what psychiatrists would call a sociopath. In any event, there is absolutely nothing noble about him.

46 posted on 01/27/2011 1:13:54 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: dervish

I’m trying to figure out why you (and some others) seem to take a special interest in this weasel Pollard? Couldn’t you just as easily work on freeing John Walker, Jr., Aldrich Ames, or Robert Hanssen? What makes Pollard so different from those other traitors?

Huh... I can’t figure it out.


47 posted on 01/27/2011 1:21:42 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Couldn’t you just as easily work on freeing John Walker, Jr., Aldrich Ames, or Robert Hansen? What makes Pollard so different from those other traitors?

Agreed. I remember the Walkers.
48 posted on 01/27/2011 1:48:31 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: dervish; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; ...

Thanks dervish. Looks like some cover fire for the upcoming UNSC resolution vote.
RELATED:

49 posted on 01/27/2011 4:41:37 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Lancey Howard

Sure you can.

Uh I’m not “working” on anything. George Schultz and others are.

But do you really want to compare spying for Israel to carrying arms for the Taliban post 9/11 against the US and spying for the Soviets during the Cold War?

My feelings that Pollard has been treated unfairly treatment stem from people like you comparing incomparable acts of treason.

..............

John Walker 20 years, 17 with good behavior - carried arms for the Taliban against US forces

Aldrich Ames, life sentence - spied for Soviets during critical Cold War period, caused death of several CIA assets, by his own admission compromised most of the CIA Soviet agents he knew

Robert Hanssen, life sentence, spied for Soviets during critical Cold War period, caused surveillance tunnel under new Soviet Embassy to be revealed, gave Soviets list of all double agents


50 posted on 01/27/2011 8:35:42 PM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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