[A.A. Cunningham]

My point is that the new generation of classic airframes (F-15, F-16, F-18) probably can’t go nose to nose with the F-22 and the Ruski and Chicom knockoffs (again, I said probably — no one really knows IMHO).

That answer has been known for several years. Don't drink the "stealth makes me invisible" kool aid.

[freedumb2003]

I was speaking in terms of pure dogfight-style maneuvering.

I seem to recall there is an odd story behind that capture you posted, maybe someone knows what I am talking about?

I always assumed stealth meant from ground-based detection, not eye in the sky nor enemy craft on-board detection systems.

But really my point is that the classic airframes we have in place are still dominant — there are physics realities beyond which you start hitting diminishing returns (such as thrust vectoring). It is those physical realities that are sinking the F-35.

To really outdo those frames, it will require a quantum jump in design approach and technology — the F22 (and variants) are really just increments.

Let me clarify my point: The F-15, F-16 and F-18 (and variants) are still the dominant aircraft in their respective spheres and will remain so for quite some time. The F-22 is IMHO slightly better, but only slightly, when adjusting for avionics that can be put onto the listed airframes. The F-35 will never be put into any useful role except as a multi-million dollar paperweight and a sop to special interests.

In the meantime I keep emailing the guys reverse engineering the anti-grav craft at Area 51 telling them to hurry but for some reason they don’t answer...