Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Singapore's Lee Kwan Yew: 'we can integrate all religions and races except Islam'
American Thinker ^ | 02/05/2011 | Thomas Lifson

Posted on 02/05/2011 11:47:57 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Lee Kuan Yew ranks as one of the most successful statesmen of the 20th century, having led Singapore to independence, and built a thriving prosperous mini-state with a world class economy, out of an ethnically diverse population. He retired as the world's longest serving prime minister, and at 87 years of age, has little to lose in speaking his mind.

Thus, his candor in discussing the assimilation of Muslims is perhaps understandable, but stil startling in a world of political correctness and compulsory sensitivity to Muslims, who are never expected to reciprocate. Singapore has a substantial Muslim minority, mostly Malays but also some Indian Muslims. Throughout its history, Singapore has striven to keep ethnic tensions minimized among its diverse population (ethnic Chinese being the largest group [74%], followed by Malays[13%], Indians, and others -- including many westerners). At one point in the 1960s, Lee spearheaded a merger with majority-Muslim Malaysia, but it quickly fell apart.

Now, Lee has published a book on Singapore's future, and he is speaking his mind:

In the book, Mr Lee, when asked to assess the progress of multiracialism in Singapore, said: "I have to speak candidly to be of value, but I do not wish to offend the Muslim community.

"I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came, and if you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration - friends, intermarriages and so on, Indians with Chinese, Chinese with Indians - than Muslims. That's the result of the surge from the Arab states."

He added: "I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except Islam."

He also said: "I think the Muslims socially do not cause any trouble, but they are distinct and separate."

Mr lee then went on to speak of how his own generation of politicians who worked with him had integrated well, including sitting down and eating together. He said: "But now, you go to schools with Malay and Chinese, there's a halal and non-halal segment and so too, the universities. And they tend to sit separately so as not to be contaminated. All that becomes a social divide."

He added that the result was a "veil" across peoples. Asked what Muslims in Singapore needed to do to integrate, he replied: "Be less strict on Islamic observances and say ‘Okay, I'll eat with you.'"

Hat tip: Andrew Bolt


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: caliphatism; culture; islam; leekwanyew; singapore; trop
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last

1 posted on 02/05/2011 11:48:03 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Well at least Lee Kwan Yew can speak his mind. He can do this because :

1) He’s retired and does not aspire to higher office.

2) He’s a Singaporean and his party controls the place.

3) Singapore is not PC.


2 posted on 02/05/2011 12:04:55 PM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

He’s right. This is because Islam is not just a religion but a rival political and legal system, so when you permit it into your country, you’re essentially allowing in a 5th column.

And while Muslims may be inoffensive when they’re powerless, as soon as they suspect they might be able to gain power, even if it means killing their next door neighbor or their own children, they’ll do it. They have no loyalty to their country or its culture; their only loyalty is to the establishment of the totalitarian political system that is the “ummah,” the Caliphate.


3 posted on 02/05/2011 12:05:52 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
"I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except Islam."

Ditto that. Time for extermination of the islam pedophile pervert and his violent followers.

4 posted on 02/05/2011 12:07:23 PM PST by NoGrayZone (WTF?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The man speaks a universal truth that is obvious. Islam doesn’t integrate.


5 posted on 02/05/2011 12:08:09 PM PST by pallis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: livius

From an article by Edward Cline :

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.520/pub_detail.asp

Below two percent Muslims are well-behaved citizens and cause little apparent trouble for the host society.

At two percent and three percent Muslims begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

From five percent on Muslims exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. They push for the introduction of halal (”clean” by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves—along with threats for failure to comply (United States, Switzerland, Sweden). At this point, Muslims work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, or Islamic law. (England, Netherlands, Philippines).

When Muslims reach 10 percent of the population, they increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris—car burning). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam, Denmark—Mohammed cartoons, murder of Theo van Gogh).

After reaching 20 percent of a population expect hair-trigger rioting, Jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning (Indonesia, Ethiopia).

After 40 percent you find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare (Bosnia, Chad).

From 60 percent you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and jizya, the tax placed on [conquered] infidels (Sudan, Albania).

After 80 percent, expect to find state-run ethnic cleansing and genocide (Syria, Egypt, UAE).


6 posted on 02/05/2011 12:08:47 PM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
John 14:6

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

No you can not.

7 posted on 02/05/2011 12:12:28 PM PST by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

He’s wrong: the US Muslim population is under 2%, and we’re already having problems with them in places where they live. But of course we have a Muslim promoter in the WH right now, and we have also never developed a response to the political pressure of Islam and in fact in many states, Islamic law is already being discussed as an alternative to US law.

Why?


8 posted on 02/05/2011 12:13:53 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

One of my ex-GF’s was Singaporean. They are not exactly that un-PC because but I;ve been there..VERY draconian in their laws. I admire how they were able to work out their healthcare system though which places emphasis on responsibility. You have no money (like a mexican) you are placed on public tier 2 which you deserve but if you pay into a private plan, you belong to tier 1, which you can pick your own hospital and clinic based on what u pay into the system.

That damn simple, no freebies, no easy way in.


9 posted on 02/05/2011 12:14:09 PM PST by max americana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl; AmericanGirlRising; autumnraine; bergmeid; bethtopaz; Brad's Gramma; Dewey Revoltnow; ..
How does one integrate Buddha and hinduism into the saving grace of Christ alone???

Romans 3:23 for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death. ."

10 posted on 02/05/2011 12:21:51 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I think instead of “integrate”, he probably should have said “coexist”.

Islam cannot coexist with other world views indefinately, Eventually, there will be blood shed.


11 posted on 02/05/2011 12:31:45 PM PST by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

He has let the cat out of the bag. The Singapore Gov’t will employ its muslim citizens in certain Civil Service jobs, but never the top ones, and never in any positions of responsibility in the military.


12 posted on 02/05/2011 12:32:13 PM PST by PGR88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: livius

“....US Muslim population is under 2%, and we’re already having problems with them ...”

.
This is because we are hopelessly PC and government has had their kneepads on from the very beginning that they let the muslims into the country.

We sold our souls for their oil while we have plenty of it ourselves. It’s only government that is to blame for the large influx of muslims and still is for allowing more to come in every day.

It is a disservice to its young men and women to send them overseas to fight islam and at the same time allow these enemies to freely into the country.


13 posted on 02/05/2011 12:38:30 PM PST by 353FMG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Asked what Muslims in Singapore needed to do to integrate, he replied: "Be less strict on Islamic observances and say ‘Okay, I'll eat with you.'"

"And resist the urge to strap dynamite on your children, and make loud, public pronouncements that Hitler didn't go far enough. These would be a good start. Until that point, Muslims should be forcibly sterilized and deported back to their festering open wound countries."


Today is a good day to die.
I didn't say for whom.

14 posted on 02/05/2011 12:40:08 PM PST by The Comedian (Muslim Brotherhood = A.N.S.W.E.R = Soros = Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mountn man

Both Buddhism and Hinduism are pagan religions that have tiny elements of the truth, and their practicioners can be led to the truth in some cases, or if they can’t be, for cultural reasons, they are not utterly closed to it.

Hinduism is very similar to the pre-Christian Roman religion, which had a multiplicity of frolicking deities for the simple people but was monotheistic for the philosophers.

We haven’t made a lot of efforts to convert Hindus, although the devoted Indian Christians in Goa (evangelized by the Portuguese in the 16th century) show what great Christians they make.

That said, the only religion which specifically rejects Christianity is Islam and it is also the only one that purports to be a complete political, economic and religious solution. So this is where our enemy lies.


15 posted on 02/05/2011 12:40:52 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

the headline says it all!

I will use it till I end...


16 posted on 02/05/2011 12:42:12 PM PST by sit-rep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: livius
He’s wrong: the US Muslim population is under 2%, and we’re already having problems with them in places where they live.

Across the nation, the Muslim portion of the demographic might be below 2%, yet certain localities have a much higher percentage than that. You can be confident that Muslim-related problems will arise first in areas with higher concentrations. I do think the <2% = benign characterization is reasonable as long as you look at localities individually.

17 posted on 02/05/2011 12:46:52 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: livius

Lee Kwan Yew said :

“Be less strict on Islamic observances and say ‘Okay, I’ll eat with you.’”

The question is this -— why not eat Halal and then eat with others who don’t?

The great thing about Christians is this — they can eat almost anything — Kosher, Halal, etc.


18 posted on 02/05/2011 12:54:41 PM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: livius
I understand that Islam is our enemy. BUT, to integrate Buddhism and Hinduism dilutes Christs saving grace.

In the end time days a ONE world religion will be implemented, and I see the "integration" of these or the desire to, into one as just that.

19 posted on 02/05/2011 12:56:11 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

How can those who want to live be tolerant of those that wnat to kill them.


20 posted on 02/05/2011 1:04:14 PM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mountn man

I’m not sure what Prime Minister Lee exactly means by integration.

If by that, he means tolerance for each other’s religion ( by tolerance, I mean you believe the other person is wrong, but nevertheless, allow him the freedom to believe what he does ), then, Christianity has to be the most tolerant religion in the world.

I don’t see how Buddhism or Hinduism does not have that tolerant tradition as well.

If by integration, he simply refers to races ( i.e., an Indian marrying a Chinese ), Christians ought to have no problems with that as well ( as long as they share the same faith ).

But if by integration, he refers to intermarriage between people who have different religious beliefs, then I am afraid Lee does not understand the teachings of each particular religion.

Biblical Christianity does teach friendship with all people, but it frowns upon marriage with non-believers ( Being unequally yoked ).

So, the key is trying to understand what Lee meant when he refers to “integration”. He seems to mix racial and religious integration up in his statement.


21 posted on 02/05/2011 1:05:13 PM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: mountn man; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; ...
1. LEE KWAN YEW has been a member of the globalist elite for a long time. He's not at all ignorant of their plans, schemes etc.

2. He may well be talking about

A) The Vatican Alice In Wonderland School Of Theology, Reality Mangling, Chronic Professional Blaming, Wailing and Whining Institute.

AND

B) The also very compromised watered down pretend 'Christian' groups of other labels.

.

CERTAINLY the globalists are keenly aware that

A) PENTECOSTALS
B) SOUTHERN BAPTISTS
C) CHARISMATICS OF ALL LABELS
D) CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE IN THE 2ND COMING OF CHRIST--PARTICULARLY IN OUR ERA

.

ARE NOT going to be amenable, compliant, cooperative, tolerant of the NEW WORLD ORDER's ONE WORLD RELIGION nor government.

Therefore, they have been slated for extermination.

Interestingly, they don't seem to have any problem at all with REPLACEMENTARIANS, PRETERISTS et al and likely even have hired many as their agents.

22 posted on 02/05/2011 1:06:58 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

I don’t recall which of these links . . . one of them asserts that the globalists are going to totally exterminate all ISLAM.

I believe they will do it or come close but before then, they will use Islam to destroy as much of Christianity and Western culture as they can.


23 posted on 02/05/2011 1:08:35 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

OOOPS FORGOT THE LINKS:

Walter Veith of AMAZING DISCOVERIES

http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/123/211-232K/

John Moore’s series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Ieca5utqo

I don’t recall which of these links . . . one of them asserts that the globalists are going to totally exterminate all ISLAM.

I believe they will do it or come close but before then, they will use Islam to destroy as much of Christianity and Western culture as they can.


24 posted on 02/05/2011 1:10:53 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: mountn man
How does one integrate Buddha and hinduism into the saving grace of Christ alone???

He's talking about integrating into society, not combining religions. I had to read it twice to figure it out. Kinda confusing.

25 posted on 02/05/2011 1:12:45 PM PST by Islander7 (There is no septic system so vile, so filthy, the left won't drink from to further their agenda)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Anyone who canes vandals for spray painting cars is OK by me.


26 posted on 02/05/2011 1:13:31 PM PST by Daveinyork
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mountn man

Who’s integrating them?

Christian doctrine has always said that God is knowable through reason, although the truths of Christianity are knowable only through revelation and faith. But Christianity has always accepted the virtuous pagan, that is, the person who never had Christianity preached to him or had it preached in such a way that he could not understand it, and instead relied on the flakes of truth in his own religion. It is up to us Christians to bring these people to the fullness of the truth.

My point is that Islam is entirely different. It is an Arab superiority cult that is actively hostile to Christianity.


27 posted on 02/05/2011 1:17:45 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Quix
one of them asserts that the globalists are going to totally exterminate all ISLAM.

In that case, sign me up for the Illuminati Infantry.

Let's get that first job done, then we can start fragging officers...


Today is a good day to die.
I didn't say for whom.

28 posted on 02/05/2011 1:19:41 PM PST by The Comedian (Muslim Brotherhood = A.N.S.W.E.R = Soros = Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: steve86

That’s right, the first problems did arise in places like Dearbonistan.

But now big problems are cropping up in New York and more local problems (installation of mega-mosques) are appearing even in places that have virtually no Muslims, such as rural areas in the South and Midwest. This is because Muslims, thanks to Obama, feel that they have been given the keys to the kingdom and it all belongs to them now.


29 posted on 02/05/2011 1:22:28 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Thank you, St Peter! The vision that St Peter had in Joppa of the sheet being lowered with all the animals in it may sound a little off the wall to modern folk (”what God has made clean, you must not call profane”), but it did mean that faith and practice no longer revolved around taboo foods.

The bizarre thing is that Islam took the Jewish taboos and made them absolute foundations of its cult. But of course Islam still won’t acknowledge the roots of these taboos...


30 posted on 02/05/2011 1:27:15 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Thanks for that information - I need that kind of ammunition.

It is obviously antithetical for America to accept Muslims. Being an American means adherence to a belief set that includes, among other things, FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

Does it appear Muslims are willing to accept that belief set? I think not, they will never be true American citizens. No immigration of any Muslims. The Somali's here in Minnesota are a criminal pain in the A$$.

31 posted on 02/05/2011 1:28:41 PM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Quix

Thanks folks forget about the Masonic P2 Lodge in Italy.


32 posted on 02/05/2011 1:30:31 PM PST by investigateworld (Free Traders don't need guns 'cause they know The Peoples Republic of China are their friends)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian
As a money-saving idea, how about Mandatory Masturbatory Martyrdom?
33 posted on 02/05/2011 1:32:25 PM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: The Comedian

I understand the sentiments.

However, I wouldn’t even hint at favoring one sub-atomic particle of the illuminati groups.


34 posted on 02/05/2011 1:44:11 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: investigateworld

It would be great if you’d post a summary of your convictions on that.


35 posted on 02/05/2011 1:44:58 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Lee Kwan Yew is on any serious list of the twentieth century’s greatest political figures along with Churchill, Thatcher, Reagan, Adenauer, etc.


36 posted on 02/05/2011 1:47:53 PM PST by denydenydeny (Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak-Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: livius; SeekAndFind; NoGrayZone; pallis; bmwcyle; max americana; mountn man; Salvavida; 353FMG; ...
The bizarre thing is that Islam took the Jewish taboos and made them absolute foundations of its cult. But of course Islam still won’t acknowledge the roots of these taboos...

They kind of acknowledge the Jews to be the "chosen people" but who later went astray. They even consider the Arabs to be the descendants of the other son of Abraham. Many back this up by claiming that the rituals were more or less observed even before Islam - such as circumcision.

Here's an online discussion on a Muslim board that reveals what they think of non-Muslims. It's disturbing, and frightening, considering how Muslims have been let into non-Muslim countries without giving even a fraction of a forethought on what a HUGE problem they are going to be, within these non-Muslim societies:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Assalamu alaykum brothers and sisters

My understanding of Jihad is that it can be done for the following reasons:

1) defending yourself

2) help oppressed people and i think also helping an ally

3) spreading the rule of islamic sharia on earth. This is not the same as forcing our religion onto people, because this of course is forbidden.

The third option is a last resort, which muslims take only after they do the following:

1) Invite the non muslims to revert to islam. If they don't accept that then

2) Ask them to live under islamic rule as non muslim citizens of the islamic state ( with freedom of worship), they will of course have to pay jizya . If they dont accept that then

3)If all fails then wage war on them until you conquer them and implement sharia upon them. Once you have done this you must let them live in peace(and give them freedom of worship) under islamic rule. And of course as non muslim citizens they will have to pay the Jizya.

Note: i'm pretty sure the muslims are supposed to put a lot of effort into the first 2 options. If these 2 options are not accepted by the non muslims then war must be waged as the last resort. Also while the non muslims pay Jizya the muslims must pay zakat, so it is not unjust as the devious kuffar claim.



I used to believe that the 3rd type of Jihad was wrong. But as i studied the reason for it i came to accept it. Basically the reason for spreading islamic rule on the earth is for the benefit of the human race for the following reasons:

1) Laws of Allah(sharia) are based on wisdom and his justice, and therefore they are beneficial to mankind.

2) sharia law allows the muslims to enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, is there something wrong with this, of course not. This would create a pure society without the immorality and corruptness of the non muslim world. Such a society would be beneficial to mankind(Quran surah 3 verse 110)

3) Living in an islamic system will bring many of mankind into the fold of islam. For example when muslims ruled from spain to china many non muslims reverted to Islam out of their own free will. All these reverts in such a short span of time (within first 100 years of islam) would not have happened without this sort of jihad. Even honest non muslim historians admit that these people were not forced.


Also this type of Jihad is no different to what Allah himself does? think about it. I once said to a christian that "Your God also spreads his religion in a similar way to the muslims" . The christian couldn't reply because he knew i was telling the truth. If you need me to explain this further then just ask.

...

Since no one has asked me to explain this, i'll do it anyway. God according to the christians, jews and muslims sends prophets to invite people to his religion. If the people accept, then great, but if the people don't accept and reject the messenger, then guess what happens?.Yes that's right God destroys them just like he destroyed all those other nations for rejecting his messengers. So basically christians, jews and muslims all believe God destroys nations for not accepting his prophets or religion, and for carrying on with their evil ways. This is very similar to what muslims do. Muslims first invite non muslims to convert to Islam or live under islamic rule, if the non muslims accept any of these options then that's great, but if they reject our proposals, then we conquer them and destroy the system they were living under and implement islamic sharia instead. These conquered non muslims will then live under islamic law in peace and security, with freedom of worship. Christians and jews should ask themselves, is this so different from what God has been doing for thousands of years, if they are honest they will say "no". Remember, the christians condemn the muslims by saying " your forcing your way of life onto people by force". They also say "your giving non muslims the ultimatum of either accepting your options or going to war, and this is wrong". Well then, if it is wrong what do the christians think of God. Do they think their God is wrong or immoral for giving the disbelievers (of the past) the ultimatum " accept my prophet or be destroyed".  . And also will they condemn their God for destroying all those nations that rejected God's message, of course they won't, but if muslims do anything similar to this they object and call it barbaric, violent and giving people horrible ultimatums  .

That's my view of this whole issue. It is a bit like the christians saying how barbaric the muslims are for stoning adulterers or cutting of the hands of thieves. There is a more harsher punishment than all this, and it is the punishment of God. God according to christians (and muslims) will burn disbelievers in hell for eternity, that's a lot more painfull than stoning or cutting hands, which of course is temporary. Will the christians now condemn God as truly barbaric. The christians don't seem to realise that by condemning muslims for such acts, they also inadvertently condemn their own God.

 

Last edited by Gajibur; 24-05-2007 at 04:29 PM.

 

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?22018-Surah-9-29-fight-those-who-dont-believe-until-they-pay-the-Jizya/page2&s=da826eb032820153c81ac6c2d0c5a1dc

37 posted on 02/05/2011 1:50:54 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

Have you read any of Joel Rosenberg?

Or any of the converted Muslim books?

Or lived with a muslim as a roommate for over a year?


38 posted on 02/05/2011 1:53:50 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

The NWO, which includes all the Bush Family, loves Chaos. What quicker way to bring that about than by bringing in Third World savages?


39 posted on 02/05/2011 1:57:41 PM PST by investigateworld (Free Traders don't need guns 'cause they know The Peoples Republic of China are their friends)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Quix

Books I have read, but I doubt there will be a day when I’ll have to live with a Muslim.


40 posted on 02/05/2011 2:09:24 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

THANKFULLY, my roommate was a recent convert.

He’s now head of a strong Christian family in the midwestern USA.


41 posted on 02/05/2011 2:13:28 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: mountn man; livius

Here’s some interesting reading. I know, I know! It’s wiki! Still,,,, interesting;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity


42 posted on 02/05/2011 2:16:47 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
On the same lines:

 

  "Nay, and of hearts which follow other gods
In simple faith, their prayers arise to me,
O Kunti’s Son! though they pray wrongfully:
For I am the Receiver and the Lord
Of every sacrifice, which these know not."
 
- Bhagavad-Gita, Ch: IX, Lines: 92-96.

 

 The Bhagavad-Gita.
 
Chapter XII
 
 
ARJUNA:

LORD! of the men who serve Thee—true in heart—
As God revealed; and of the men who serve,
Worshipping Thee Unrevealed, Unbodied, far,
Which take the better way of faith and life?
 
KRISHNA:

Whoever serve Me—as I show Myself—
        5
Constantly true, in full devotion fixed,
These hold I very holy. But who serve—
Worshipping Me The One, The Invisible,
The Unrevealed, Unnamed, Unthinkable,
Uttermost, All-pervading, Highest, Sure—         10
Who thus adore Me, mastering their sense,
Of one set mind to all, glad in all good,
These blessed souls come unto Me.
        Yet, hard
The travail is for whoso bend their minds         15
To reach th’ Unmanifest. That viewless path
Shall scarce be trod by man bearing his flesh!
But whereso any doeth all his deeds,
Renouncing self in Me, full of Me, fixed
To serve only the Highest, night and day         20
Musing on Me—him will I swiftly lift
Forth from life’s ocean of distress and death
Whose soul clings fast to Me. Cling thou to Me!
Clasp Me with heart and mind! so shalt thou dwell
Surely with Me on high. But if thy thought         25
Droops from such height; if thou be’st weak to set
Body and soul upon Me constantly,
Despair not! give Me lower service! seek
To read Me, worshipping with steadfast will;
And, if thou canst not worship steadfastly,         30
Work for Me, toil in works pleasing to Me!
For he that laboreth right for love of Me
Shall finally attain! But, if in this
Thy faint heart fails, bring Me thy failure! find
Refuge in Me! let fruits of labor go,         35
Renouncing all for Me, with lowliest heart,
So shalt thou come; for, though to know is more
Than diligence, yet worship better is
Than knowing, and renouncing better still
Near to renunciation—very near—         40
Dwelleth Eternal Peace!
        Who hateth nought
Of all which lives, living himself benign,
Compassionate, from arrogance exempt,
Exempt from love of self, unchangeable         45
By good or ill; patient, contented, firm
In faith, mastering himself, true to his word,
Seeking Me, heart and soul; vowed unto Me,—
That man I love! Who troubleth not his kind,
And is not troubled by them; clear of wrath,         50
Living too high for gladness, grief, or fear,
That man I love! 

Who, dwelling quiet-eyed,
Stainless, serene, well-balanced, unperplexed,
Working with Me, yet from all works detached,
That man I love! 

Who, fixed in faith on Me,
        55
Dotes upon none, scorns none; rejoices not,
And grieves not, letting good and evil hap
Light when it will, and when it will depart,
That man I love! 

Who, unto friend and foe
Keeping an equal heart, with equal mind         60
Bears shame and glory, with an equal peace
Takes heat and cold, pleasure and pain; abides
Quit of desires, hears praise or calumny
In passionless restraint, unmoved by each,
Linked by no ties to earth, steadfast in Me,
        65
That man I love! 

But most of all I love
Those happy ones to whom ’tis life to live
In single fervid faith and love unseeing,
Eating the blessèd Amrit of my Being!
 
Here endeth Chapter XII. of the Bhagavad-Gîtâ,
        70
entitled “Bhakityôgô,” or “The Book of
the Religion of Faith”.

43 posted on 02/05/2011 2:23:37 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
Forgot the last bit:


“Here shall no end be hindered, no hope marred
No loss be feared: faith—yea, a little faith
Shall save thee from the anguish of thy dread.”
 
-          Bhagavad-Gita, Ch: II, Lines 140-142.
 
ARJUNA:

“And what road goeth he who, having faith,
Fails, Krishna! in the striving; falling back
From holiness, missing the perfect rule?
Is he not lost, straying from Brahma’s light,
Like the vain cloud, which floats ’twixt earth and Heaven
When lightning splits it, and it vanisheth?
Fain would I hear thee answer me herein,
Since, Krishna! none save thou can clear the doubt.”
 
KRISHNA:

“He is not lost, thou Son of Prithâ! No!
Nor earth, nor heaven is forfeit, even for him,
Because no heart that holds one right desire
Treadeth the road of loss! He who should fail,
Desiring righteousness, cometh at death
Unto the Region of the Just.”
 
-          Bhagavad-Gita, Ch: VI, Lines 125-138.
 
  “Of many thousand mortals, one, perchance,
Striveth for Truth; and of those few that strive—
Nay, and rise high—one only—here and there—
Knoweth Me, as I am, the very Truth.”
 
-          Bhagavad-Gita, Ch: VII, Lines 8-11.
 
  “There be those, too, whose knowledge, turned aside
By this desire or that, gives them to serve
Some lower gods, with various rites, constrained
By that which mouldeth them. Unto all such—
Worship what shrine they will, what shapes, in faith—
’Tis I who give them faith! I am content!
The heart thus asking favor from its God,
Darkened but ardent, hath the end it craves,
The lesser blessing—but ’tis I who give!
Yet soon is withered what small fruit they reap
Those men of little minds, who worship so,
Go where they worship, passing with their gods.
But Mine come unto me! Blind are the eyes
Which deem th’ Unmanifested manifest,
Not comprehending Me in my true Self!
Imperishable, viewless, undeclared,
Hidden behind my magic veil of shows,
I am not seen by all; I am not known—
Unborn and changeless—to the idle world.
But I, Arjuna! know all things which were,
And all which are, and all which are to be,
Albeit not one among them knoweth Me!”
 
-          Bhagavad-Gita, Ch: VII, Lines 69-90.
 
  “Nay, and of hearts which follow other gods
In simple faith, their prayers arise to me,
O Kunti’s Son! though they pray wrongfully:
For I am the Receiver and the Lord
Of every sacrifice, which these know not
Rightfully; so they fall to earth again!”
 
-          Bhagavad-Gita, Ch: IX, Lines 92-97.
 
 
“Yet not by the Vedas, nor from sacrifice,
Nor penance, nor gift-giving, nor with prayer
Shall any so behold, as thou hast seen!
Only by fullest service, perfect faith,
And uttermost surrender am I known
And seen, and entered into, Indian Prince!
Who doeth all for Me; who findeth Me
In all; adoreth always; loveth all
Which I have made, and Me, for Love’s sole end,
That man, Arjuna! unto Me doth wend.”
 
-          Bhagavad-Gita, Ch: XI, Lines 332-344.
 

44 posted on 02/05/2011 2:30:35 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: livius; SeekAndFind; NoGrayZone; pallis; bmwcyle; max americana; mountn man; 353FMG

Interesting.

If you care to delve into the real reasons, and history of Islam, I suggest “Secrets of the Koran”, by Don Richardson. He is a cultural anthropologist and former Christian missionary. I met him at a conference and was facinated how he did his research. It’s a very easy read.

He uses Islamic sources to make his case: the 109 war verses in the Koran in their context, actually demonstrate that radical Islam isn’t radical after all. It’s foundational to their doctrine.


45 posted on 02/05/2011 2:35:59 PM PST by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

Most interesting! Thank you! It’s interesting to note the many similarities in doctrine, lifestyle, etc.. And it’s also interesting (that word again!) that there was a presence of Buddhists in the Holy Land prior to Christ’s birth.


46 posted on 02/05/2011 2:38:42 PM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

You’re welcome!

However, the Bhagavad-Gita is Hindu scripture, not Buddhist, although both share a lot in common.


47 posted on 02/05/2011 2:41:07 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Quix

Amen. We are called to come out of Babylon

Mathew 24:48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’

24:49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards,

24:50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,

24:51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


48 posted on 02/05/2011 2:43:21 PM PST by Lera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Well, wiki can be okay.

There were various monotheistic faiths throughout the East and ME, such as Zoroastrianism in Persia. But the revelation to the Jews gave the Jews the law and the concept of God (without any mysterious Roman/Hindu style nymphs or Buddhist philosophical negationism), and Jesus then not only extended the concept, but through his death and resurrection, brought all mankind into it and gave us all an eternal future, free from ethnic connections (Judaism) or ancestral connections (Buddhism) or the threat of reincarnation (Hinduism and Buddhism).

The doctrine of the Church has always been that the Divine Revelation through Christ fulfilled pagan religions, since all of them longed for immortality and attempted to establish a moral system that would enable a person to be virtuous. I guess it’s up to Christians to tell them that...which I believe is called evangelization!

Still, I think it’s undeniable that Islam is different entirely, because it is like a reverse image of Christianity. Everything that is good to us is bad to them; this is not true of most of the developed pagan religions, not counting the really primitive cannibalistic, great-leader-centered tribal religions such as those discovered by the Spanish in the Americas. So Islam is the one “religion” (it’s really a political cult based on Arab superiority) that won’t fit in anywhere.


49 posted on 02/05/2011 2:59:41 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Aevery_Freeman
This is what I am afraid of, that our own dearly held belief in freedom of religion will be our undoing. Of course every religion has to obey the secular laws of the country. So perhaps we can use that to smack down the muslims.
50 posted on 02/05/2011 3:07:26 PM PST by armordog99
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson