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To: Venturer
"Making gas from Food runs up the cost of grain When the cost of grain goes up the cost of meat goes up(what do you think they feed all those cows and chickens)."

Knowing more than just a little about this subject, I have to interject to dispel this particular myth. Contrary to popular belief, cows and chickens are rarely fed grains. Most of what they eat is composed of a variety of waste products (some including their own), along with grasses in the case of cows. Cattle are only fed grain, if at all, for a short period before slaughter.

In fact, these days they are likely to be fed an ethanol by-product called either WDGS (Wet Distiller's Grains with Solubles) or DDGS (Distiller's Dried Grains with Solubles). The process of producing ethanol from corn only removes the starch from the kernel. Everything else, including the protein and nutrients remains in the WDGS or DDGS that is left over. DDGS in particular has therefore become a highly sought-after animal feed and is used extensively to feed cattle, poultry, and to a lesser degree fish in fish farms. Because of its concentrated nature, it actually contains a higher protein level than a similar mass of raw corn.

Therefore, contrary to the belief that the ethanol production process creates a food versus fuel dilemma, it actually produces BOTH at the same time. While ethanol production has increased corn prices slightly, most of the price increase has been due to oil price increases (a major input into the cost of producing and transporting corn). If ethanol were to blame for high corn prices, then why is it that wheat, barley, and other grains have also mirrored the rise in the price of corn? They are not used to produce ethanol.

I know what I have said is almost heretical around here, but it is the truth. As conservatives, we must always remember that we are the group that favors rationality and facts, wherever they may lead, over unthinking ridicule and emotionalism. We should never jump on a popular bandwagon, just because it gives us an excuse to beat up on liberals, when we don't know the actual facts. To do so is to undermine our credibility on issues where we DO have the facts on our side.

47 posted on 02/07/2011 3:22:46 PM PST by noiseman (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: noiseman
"DDGS in particular has therefore become a highly sought-after animal feed and is used extensively to feed cattle, poultry, and to a lesser degree fish in fish farms. Therefore, contrary to the belief that the ethanol production process creates a food versus fuel dilemma, it actually produces BOTH at the same time."

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Another FReeper states: "You cannot ferment out the starch component of the corn and call it not reduced as a feed source energy has been removed. what is left is DDG with solubles, which is the protein portion of the corn grain plus the cellulose seed coat and yeast cell culture waste. This feed source is devoid of carbohydrates by the nature that the yeast ate it all to make ethanol. To feed animals you need carbohydrates and proteins especially for monogastrics like swine as they cannot process cellulose to ATP like a rumen can. So while yes DDGS is feed it is no where near the caloric quality for rumens as whole dent corn and monogastrics can only eat it in less than 10% or so quantities. Monogastrics need carbohydrates at 2/3 of total energy vs protein content of 10-18% in grow out feeds. Whole dent corn which is mostly starch and 10% or so proteins is used at +50% in monogastric rations with soy making up the remainder of the 9 essential ammio acid profile. Dent corn and soy are the primary feed of swine and fowl DDGS is only a minor ingredient as it is biologically impossible to meet these animals basal requirements with high nitrogen protein rich DDGS renal failure will soon occur if pure DDGS was feed to fowl or swine same for rumens they can only process so much N based proteins relative to cellulose which is just polyglucose so no you are wrong that DDGS is the same as whole dent not even close." 38 posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2010 by JD_UTDallas http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2627577/posts Dent corn (the same corn used for ethanol) is used for animal feed, corn meal and lots of other food items. The end result is dairy, eggs, and meat. In other words, in the end it is used for human consumption.

58 posted on 02/08/2011 5:09:12 AM PST by anglian
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To: noiseman; Renfield; Kevin J waldroup

Bravo, noiseman. The riots in Egypt are not "food riots", and they have nothing whatsoever to do with ethanol production anywhere, in particular the US; the riots are egged on and/or organized by jihadists operating on funds (and inspiration, and leadership) from outside Egypt. There's been some extremely nutty crap floating around FR about ethanol, and this has been going on for some time.
61 posted on 02/08/2011 6:01:32 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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