FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution, Afterword and Suggested Reading

A Publius/Billthedrill Essay | 9 March 2011 | Publius & Billthedrill

[Publius]

Ping! The final thread has been posted. This FReeper Book Club has now concluded.

Earlier threads:

FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution
5 Oct 1787, Centinel #1
6 Oct 1787, James Wilson’s Speech at the State House
8 Oct 1787, Federal Farmer #1
9 Oct 1787, Federal Farmer #2
18 Oct 1787, Brutus #1
22 Oct 1787, John DeWitt #1
27 Oct 1787, John DeWitt #2
27 Oct 1787, Federalist #1
31 Oct 1787, Federalist #2
3 Nov 1787, Federalist #3
5 Nov 1787, John DeWitt #3
7 Nov 1787, Federalist #4
10 Nov 1787, Federalist #5
14 Nov 1787, Federalist #6
15 Nov 1787, Federalist #7
20 Nov 1787, Federalist #8
21 Nov 1787, Federalist #9
23 Nov 1787, Federalist #10
24 Nov 1787, Federalist #11
27 Nov 1787, Federalist #12
27 Nov 1787, Cato #5
28 Nov 1787, Federalist #13
29 Nov 1787, Brutus #4
30 Nov 1787, Federalist #14
1 Dec 1787, Federalist #15
4 Dec 1787, Federalist #16
5 Dec 1787, Federalist #17
7 Dec 1787, Federalist #18
8 Dec 1787, Federalist #19
11 Dec 1787, Federalist #20
12 Dec 1787, Federalist #21
14 Dec 1787, Federalist #22
18 Dec 1787, Federalist #23
18 Dec 1787, Address of the Pennsylvania Minority
19 Dec 1787, Federalist #24
21 Dec 1787, Federalist #25
22 Dec 1787, Federalist #26
25 Dec 1787, Federalist #27
26 Dec 1787, Federalist #28
27 Dec 1787, Brutus #6
28 Dec 1787, Federalist #30
1 Jan 1788, Federalist #31
3 Jan 1788, Federalist #32
3 Jan 1788, Federalist #33
3 Jan 1788, Cato #7
4 Jan 1788, Federalist #34
5 Jan 1788, Federalist #35
8 Jan 1788, Federalist #36
10 Jan 1788, Federalist #29
11 Jan 1788, Federalist #37
15 Jan 1788, Federalist #38
16 Jan 1788, Federalist #39
18 Jan 1788, Federalist #40
19 Jan 1788, Federalist #41
22 Jan 1788, Federalist #42
23 Jan 1788, Federalist #43
24 Jan 1788, Brutus #10
25 Jan 1788, Federalist #44
26 Jan 1788, Federalist #45
29 Jan 1788, Federalist #46
31 Jan 1788, Brutus #11
1 Feb 1788, Federalist #47
1 Feb 1788, Federalist #48
5 Feb 1788, Federalist #49
5 Feb 1788, Federalist #50
7 Feb 1788, Brutus #12, Part 1
8 Feb 1788, Federalist #51
8 Feb 1788, Federalist #52
12 Feb 1788, Federalist #53
12 Feb 1788, Federalist #54
14 Feb 1788, Brutus #12, Part 2
15 Feb 1788, Federalist #55
19 Feb 1788, Federalist #56
19 Feb 1788, Federalist #57
20 Feb 1788, Federalist #58
22 Feb 1788, Federalist #59
26 Feb 1788, Federalist #60
26 Feb 1788, Federalist #61
27 Feb 1788, Federalist #62
1 Mar 1788, Federalist #63
7 Mar 1788, Federalist #64
7 Mar 1788, Federalist #65
11 Mar 1788, Federalist #66
11 Mar 1788, Federalist #67
14 Mar 1788, Federalist #68
14 Mar 1788, Federalist #69
15 Mar 1788, Federalist #70
18 Mar 1788, Federalist #71
20 Mar 1788, Brutus #15
21 Mar 1788, Federalist #72
21 Mar 1788, Federalist #73
25 Mar 1788, Federalist #74
26 Mar 1788, Federalist #75
1 Apr 1788, Federalist #76
4 Apr 1788, Federalist #77
10 Apr 1788, Brutus #16
5 Jun 1788, Patrick Henry’s Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention #1
7 Jun 1788, Patrick Henry’s Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention #2
14 Jun 1788, Federalist #78
18 Jun 1788, Federalist #79
20 Jun 1788, Melancton Smith’s Speech to the New York Ratifying Convention #1
21 Jun 1788, Melancton Smith’s Speech to the New York Ratifying Convention #2
21 Jun 1788, Federalist #80
23 Jun 1788, Melancton Smith’s Speech to the New York Ratifying Convention #3
27 Jun 1788, Melancton Smith’s Speech to the New York Ratifying Convention #5
28 Jun 1788, Federalist #81
2 Jul 1788, Federalist #82
5 Jul 1788, Federalist #83
16 Jul 1788, Federalist #84
13 Aug 1788, Federalist #85

[Steely Tom]

Is there a FReeper book club for children's books?

My daughter loves to read. She's been bringing books home from school. Most of them are from Scholastic, which, when I was growing up, I liked.

Last week, she asked me to read her to sleep from one of the books she brought from school. It was Out Of The Dust, by Karen Hesse. She asked me to read from a particular chapter of the book.

I was horrified by what I read. I won't even describe it here, it's not worth it. The book is utter trash. After reading it, I put the book down and said softly "they're preparing you to be slaves." She said "what do you mean?" I had to tell her I'd explain to her some day (she's ten).

What happened to the good books?

We went in to my wife's room; my wife wanted to hear it. I told her I'd read it to her later, I didn't want to read it again in front of our daughter.

Later, when I read it to my wife, she thought I was cherry-picking a bad part. She asked me to choose a page at random, and read that page. I did. When I stopped, my wife said "there are some sick teachers out there."

Where are the good books for kids? Girls, in particular?

[SZonian]

Bookmarked, thanks for posting this.

FRegards,
SZ

[Bigun]

That is quite a reading list!

I have a copy of the majority of those in my personal library and can second the motion as to their value to anyone seeking to understand what was REALLY happening back then.

[Publius]

Is there a FReeper book club for children's books?

Any FReeper can start a FReeper Book Club on any book. There are a few simple rules to follow.

• Tell Jim Robinson you are planning to start a FReeper Book Club. He'll tell the mods not to relegate book club threads to Chat.
• Start an introductory thread with a well written essay explaining what you are planning to do, and ask individual FReepers to join.
• Build a ping list for those Freepers who wish to join your book club.
• Post one thread per chapter, set a strict schedule for posting threads, and stick to that schedule. In each thread, synopsize the chapter, write essays laying out whatever points you wish to make, and build a set of discussion topics for club members.
• Use the keyword "freeperbookclub" so that your thread can be accessed by clicking on the category "FReeper Book Club" on the upper right side of the main page.
• Keep the discussion going, and stick with it to the end.

Good luck.

[Jude in WV]

Thanks for all your hard work.

[Jude in WV]

My granddaughter likes the American Girl books.
I always loved Nancy Drew mysteries (and the Hardy boys).
My sister loved the Anne of Green Gables books.

My favorite book as a small child was “Little Black Sambo”. Our library (and many others)pulled it from the shelves because they deemed it “racist”. How ridiculous! It was wonderfully fun make believe about a little Indian boy with pointed shoes and pretty new clothes. He was not a black African person at all.

You can find most anything on the web. My son downloaded every Sherlock Holmes mystery (one per night) until he read them all. Many can be found on the Gutenberg project. Others can be found with a Google search.

[Billthedrill]

Well, here we are, then. What this project did for me was to capture an incredibly intense period in American history, less than two years of actual activity that had to be placed in an ever-widening context to make any sense at all. It was, in miniature, a thread containing the gist of Western political philosophy, a road littered with the wrecks of failure and brave starts that were overtaken by events.

We've had a pretty good run, in my opinion, this two centuries of creaky stability threatened by power mongers, would-be despots, social reformers, and utopian fascists who ultimately came up against the bulwark of the Constitution and have been relegated to nibbling at its peripheries and tunneling desperately to undermine its foundations. Unfortunately a fair number of these populate the institutions whose charge it is to defend the Constitution. The wonder is not the damage they have done but the strength of the edifice that still stands.

Ultimately Hamilton, who had to be dragged into the conclusion, was right: nothing in the Constitution is any stronger than it is made by the will of the voter to maintain it. When the voter becomes lazy, complacent, lulled by promises of great wealth to be had at the cost of only a little theft, that structure must fail in the end. "A republic, madame, if you can keep it," was Franklin's formulation, and his fear that the populace whose members were already forgetting the costs of liberty would end up selling it for a mess of pottage. That brilliant student of the human condition would be disgusted, I think, at the sight of those who have, and not a little thrilled by those of us who still refuse to, lo these two centuries hence.

If I learned one thing from all of this personally it is that we're still fighting about the same things. That's actually pretty encouraging. Thanks, all, for reading.

[Jude in WV]

LITTLE HOUSE IN THE BIG WOODS
Wilder, Laura Ingalls
Laura and her pioneer family share a home in the wilderness of Wisconsin in this first of a beloved series.

The Dollhouse Caper, Jean O’Connell (books like this were a favorite of my daughter)

Where the Red Fern Grows (this was a favorite of my son)

Old Yeller

100 Best Books of the 20th Century
http://www.cattermole.com/page4.htm

[SunTzuWu]

You guys have done an amazing job. Thank you for all your work and for the education. I've still got a lot of reading ahead of me.

[Publius]

I always loved Nancy Drew mysteries (and the Hardy boys).

These two series originated with the Stratemeyer Syndicate, which was based on South Orange, New Jersey, but which has since moved on to better digs. Edward Stratemeyer wrote the plot outlines but hired anonymous ghost writers to actually write the books under various house names. In 1977 Canadian author Leslie McFarlane wrote The Ghost of the Hardy Boys, a story of how he ghost-wrote most of the first 26 books that comprised the series. It's one of the funniest books I've ever read.

By the early Sixties, the syndicate had a new generation of ghost writers rewrite the originals with a less literary content to match a less literary readership. The originals from the Twenties and Thirties are available from boutique publishers.

[Publius]

...nothing in the Constitution is any stronger than it is made by the will of the voter to maintain it.

I occasionally play a parlor game where I state the following quote: "The Constitution means whatever the American people wish it to mean." Then I ask which president said that. The first guess is always FDR. I keep saying "Earlier" until I get to the correct answer: President John Quincy Adams, who said it in 1826. It is the mantra of the loose constructionists.

[MontaniSemperLiberi]

“LITTLE HOUSE IN THE BIG WOODS”

We just got through this one in the Montani house after finishing The Last Battle. The part about the pig’s bladder used as a balloon toy was hilarious. Oh the joy of having a young one.

[Loud Mime]

"The Constitution means whatever the American people wish it to mean."

Sounds like Thrasymachus in his argument with Socrates about 'justice.'

Great Job, Gentlemen.

[Huck]

Throughout it all, the one towering figure seldom visible in the public debate, the eminence grise of the Constitution, was George Washington, who had formed his own preferences for central government, and in particular for the superiority of an army belonging to one as he had dodged enemy fire and rallied his defeated troops during the French and Indian War some thirty years prior. He, who had laid down his commander’s sword to the astonishment of Europe and who would not be king, had taken the presidency of the Constitutional Convention with reluctance, and would accept the office of President that was designed for him in what was quite sincerely the same frame of mind. For constitutional government, however, he was far from reluctant. It was in no small measure his voice echoing in the debates at Poughkeepsie by way of his young aide-de-camp turned Chief of Staff, Alexander Hamilton.

Beautifully written and spot-on.

[MontaniSemperLiberi]

Congratulations Publius. You did it.

Reading and writing aren’t quite the same thing, are they? Reading is rather personal. When writing do you find it’s hard to let go of the ideas, at least sometimes?

[Publius]

The ideas will flow forward to the next book. “Democracy in America” is looking like it will be our next project.

[RoadGumby]

Just a suggestion / hope. Perhaps you and billthedrill could take this ‘work of art’ and consider publishing it. Looking forward to the next one.

[Publius]

We will be turning it over to our agent in New York in the not too distant future.