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To: HKMk23

Wonderful post. Absolutely correct. I particularly like:


And since that is true, we know that Jesus didn’t mean what you think he meant, and that it is therefore invalid to claim that “People will NOT come to true faith from reading the account of the book...” Indeed, some have come to faith by it, and more undoubtedly will.


The business about Abraham & lazarus and the Rich Man is a straw dog.

1. It was a parable.
2. I assume, nevertheless that it was also true.
3. I assume it was TRUE FOR THAT SITUATION WITH THOSE PEOPLE FOR THAT TIME.
4. I do NOT assume that it was for all people in all situations for all times.
5. Scripture indicates in the NT that such experiences are to be expected in the NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH ERA. It is UNBIBLICAL to NOT expect them.


123 posted on 03/11/2011 8:11:39 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Thank you. If I am right; glorify God who helps me, and know that I am not nearly so pleased to point out that someone may be in error, as I am to point out that God is True.

Now consider Jesus’ point in saying, “If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.”

Doesn’t Jesus’ claim really hinge upon why they weren’t already convinced to repent by the testimony of Moses and the Prophets?

To put it in modern language, isn’t Jesus essentially saying, “If they’re so deaf they can’t hear the testimony of Moses and the Prophets, they’re too deaf to hear anyone’s testimony no matter how amazing their story is”?

So, why would someone not be convinced to repent by the testimony of Moses and the Prophets?? Wouldn’t that unconvinced person be someone who was not receptive to the Spirit of God?

By contrast, isn’t the person who responds to the work of the Spirit within them, wooing and drawing them to God a person who believes the testimony of Moses and the Prophets and repents? [I speak in the context of the time before the establishment of the New Covenant.]

Now, consider the inverse of what Jesus said, “If they hear Moses and the Prophets, they will also be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.”

So, what Jesus is really pointing out in the parable is that it doesn’t matter from whom the testimony that leads to repentance and faith comes; what matters is that the testimony is made alive in the heart of the hearer by The Spirit of God. It is not the source of the testimony that draws the unbelieving heart to repentance, but the working of the Spirit in the inner man.

The purpose of Jesus’ statement, then, is not to nullify the testimony of a resurrected person; it is to point out that NO testimony is sufficient to convince a person to repent apart from the inner working of The Spirit of God.


154 posted on 03/11/2011 11:35:54 PM PST by HKMk23 (It won't be "Justice" until wicked people fry.)
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