Posted on 03/12/2011 10:22:33 PM PST by SteveH
Edited on 03/12/2011 11:37:14 PM PST by Jim Robinson. [history]
The type of accident occurring now in Japan derives from a loss of offsite AC power and then a subsequent failure of emergency power on site. Engineers there are racing to restore AC power to prevent a core meltdown.
First came the earthquake, centered just off the east coast of Japan, near Honshu. The horror of the tsunami quickly followed. Now the world waits as emergency crews attempt to stop a core meltdown from occurring at the Fukushima Daichi nuclear reactor, already the site of an explosion of the reactor's housing structure.
(Excerpt) Read more at scientificamerican.com ...
Complex systems fail in complex ways.
Must be run by liberals.. no replacement electicity generators.. to run the pumps..
Sounds to me like Situation Normal - all Fukishima’d up.
Everything was probably submerged and will be filled with mud and sand. Whatever the Japanese are they aren’t “liberals”.
so they need AC power - can that be gotten somehow from a battleship or a nuke sub linking up to some transmission lines?
I believe that complex systems fail in simple ways.
The power went out. A simple thing taking out a rather complex set of devices designed exclusively to provide simple power to maintain each piece of the complex system..
Most systemic failures require three things to simultaneously occur. This one seems to be...
1. Earthquake
2. Power goes down
3. Backup pump systems run out of battery power
Simple, not complex.
Even simpler, ...not just one quake, but a series of over 24 quakes within 24 hrs all over 6.0. 30 such quakes within a week and 3 of them over 7.0, with a 10m tsunami thrown in for grins and giggles.
I suspect the place has numerous problems and likely that even if a nuke sub sat adjacent the site, they might still not be able to get power to the circuits requiring the power.
I wonder many conduits and duct banks have been severed in the plant just from seismic activity. If Japan shifted 8 ft, just imagine how much displacement is likely to have happened within the confines of the plants.
By looking at the quake websites, the entire region off the coast in a 100mi radius appears unstable.
I am still interested in where our carrier group is.
They are likely on site by now. We have capability to provide, at the least, unlimited fresh water.
I am wondering if this capability is being kept quiet because there is a lunatic in the neighborhood who would toss out his last nuke to make a point.
Wonder where those benevolent Chinese with their shiny new boats are today.
Maybe, but it's being fixed by nuclear and chemical engineers. In my experience, they are far from liberal.
In fact, I'd wager if they heard you say that, they'd kick both our asses.
We have the ability to provide fresh water for several thousand people,...not a million.
Their natural resources and infrastructure restoration is the quickest and most efficient way of rescue from their calamity.
They still are having about a 5.0 quake every 10 minutes in that 100mi radius.
Nagasaki and Hiroshima didn’t receive as much destruction from atomic warfare as the recent tsunami, not even considering all the seismic damage.
As is well known, so this shouldn't have been unexpected.
lol.......
People need to remember the backdrop of why this happened. A 9.1 magnitude quake. They probably should have had better planning and no one ever expected.......
Unfortunately - the stuff no one expects usually happens. I am sure a lot of brave Japanese are trying to save this plants. Saving one is hard enough but when 6(?) are is serious trouble it is almost impossible.
I had heard that they had been using fire engine pumps to try to pump in cool water yesterday.
Poor Japanese.
Only from a source other than the ships themselves though. Seriously ships water del sal plants generally have enough for the reactor or boiler feed water whichever the case may be and for potable water for the crew. Almost any aircraft carrier vet has experienced water hours in their time onboard. They can helo and drop though what is shipped to them that and food. Navy ships are designed primarily for combat missions not rescue.
Someone mentioned rigging a power line from the ship? You're getting into some complicated wiring issues. For example to get 110 volts from what I remember a ships wiring is two 55 volt hots rather than a 110 volt hot and out of phase with each other and a ship wiring has no neutral return. It's a bit different than utility wiring. That's the way it was explained to me. But shipboard electrical loads are a delicate matter all in itself.
8.9-magnitude earthquakes and tsunamis are profoundly disruptive events so it is easy to understand how this failure came about.
A more interesting example might involve autonomous, interconnected systems that magnify the effect of a few minor screwups:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003#Findings
One wouldn’t normally expect a couple of untrimmed trees in the middle of nowhere to take out power to the entire eastern U.S.
I have every confidence that the engineers will do what needs to be done, up to and including the loss of their lives doing so.
I was told in engineering school that when a doctor screws up, they can lose a patient, but when an engineer screws up, they can lose a city. These are pros. I believe they deserve our gratitude and prayers.
It’s hard to quantify and qualify acts of God before the event, especially if one ignores Him.
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