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We've Become a Nation of Takers, Not Makers. More people work for government than most industries.
Wall Street Journal ^ | 04/01/2011 | Stephen Moore

Posted on 04/01/2011 7:56:35 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

If you want to understand better why so many states—from New York to Wisconsin to California—are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, consider this depressing statistic: Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.

It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods. Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing. New Jersey has just under two-and-a-half as many government employees as manufacturers. Florida's ratio is more than 3 to 1. So is New York's.

Even Michigan, at one time the auto capital of the world, and Pennsylvania, once the steel capital, have more government bureaucrats than people making things. The leaders in government hiring are Wyoming and New Mexico, which have hired more than six government workers for every manufacturing worker.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News; Government; US: California; US: Florida; US: Indiana; US: Michigan; US: New Jersey; US: New York; US: Pennsylvania; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: california; democrats; florida; government; indiana; liberalfascism; makers; michigan; nannystate; newjersey; newyork; pennsylvania; pensions; public; socialistutopia; takers; unions; wisconsin; wisconsinshowdown
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1 posted on 04/01/2011 7:56:41 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

What most people don’t understand is that every dollar that government “spends” has to be taken from someone else first.

Now we have more people riding in the cart than pulling it, and this is unworkable.

As a good friend once observed, “Wealth is created on the shop floor.”

She’s right.


2 posted on 04/01/2011 8:00:02 AM PDT by Tigerized (pursuingliberty.com)
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To: SeekAndFind
Since we flushed our country down the toilet in 2008, I've thought that we can turn things around with elections.

We may need to start thinking about a plan B. I'm not sure elections are going to undue the damage.

A tax revolt, or serious enforcement of the 10th amendment by courageous governors.

3 posted on 04/01/2011 8:01:51 AM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: SeekAndFind
That's F’d up. A recipe for certain disaster.
4 posted on 04/01/2011 8:06:05 AM PDT by ryan71 (Dear spell check - No, I will not capitalize the "m" in moslem!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Stephen Moore who wrote this is pro open borders and amnesty. See where open borders has led us Steve.


5 posted on 04/01/2011 8:10:24 AM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: SeekAndFind
Add to that the number of people receiving government checks for not working and it looks still worse. How many people are directly dependent on government? Never mind all those who work in private companies with government contracts.
6 posted on 04/01/2011 8:12:00 AM PDT by Chuckster (When I was a kid, this was a free country)
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To: SeekAndFind
What conditions fostered the departure of the U.S. Manufacturing Base to third world countries, and who were the parties responsible for the destruction of U.S. Manufacturing?
7 posted on 04/01/2011 8:16:53 AM PDT by gitmogrunt
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To: Tigerized

Not just that, but then there’s people who claim that employing more govt workers means tax revenue goes up. While this may be true, government pay goes up even more. For every extra $20 or so the government gets off their taxes, they first have to pay out $100.


8 posted on 04/01/2011 8:18:01 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: SeekAndFind

You ever try to make something is this country today with EIR’s and fees and taxes.

We only have the government to blame and our fellow citizens that elected liberals.


9 posted on 04/01/2011 8:38:36 AM PDT by edcoil (Rule One: Fear No Man)
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To: gitmogrunt
"What conditions fostered the departure of the U.S. Manufacturing Base to third world countries, and who were the parties responsible for the destruction of U.S. Manufacturing?"

I don't know the specifics, but being 63 years old, I can recount a few memories.

Before I joined the Army in '65, I could work almost anywhere an inexperienced teenaged kid could work.

After Army in '67, I got my first job walking into a cellophane wrap factory (NOone remembers collecting cig wrappers and turning them in for donated prosthetics ?? .. I do).

When could I start?
Tomorrow
Be here at 7AM

It was that easy.


Then came hippiedom and drugs and sex and rock and roll and I was hooked.

I sort'a woke up around '80/'81 and realized a lot had changed, not the least of which seemed to be a lot of talk about taxes sending companies overseas.

Japan had ceased to be an econamic threat (we ran through the transister stage in about 2 or 3 years) and I just had a conversation with someone that claimed it was the VCR that killed America.

Whatever ... IMO, the simple answer to "What conditions .. " seems to be the desire to make cheaper the products we invrnted and higher taxes followed to make up for lost revenue when a local factory went to Japan or China.

The snowball rolled and we're in the middle of the belly of the snowman.

10 posted on 04/01/2011 8:38:49 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: gitmogrunt

U.S. manufacturing has not been destroyed. Yes, some manufacturing sectors have declined in output (notably steel), but we are still the largest manufacturer in the world, but we don’t need that many people to work in manufacturing because of automation. We also need fewer people in farming to produce the same, or more, agricultural output. The same would be true of construction if it weren’t for trade-unions preventing a lot of the economies that would result from pre-manufacturing large building components. The market will naturally seek efficiencies, and cutting labor costs is one of the quickest ways to cut costs in any enterprise.

Naturally, the government, which seems to have the opposite incentive structure, absorbs more and more labor.

Now there are some manufacturing sectors that for strategic reasons should not have been allowed to decline — steel and semiconductor devices come readily to mind — but to preserve them would have meant (and to revive them would mean) modernizing them and thereby making them less labor-intensive (i.e. fewer jobs).


11 posted on 04/01/2011 8:41:29 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Frantzie
Stephen Moore who wrote this is pro open borders and amnesty. See where open borders has led us Steve.

Do his positions on borders and amnesty invalidate his message? If so, how? If not, then what's the point of your post?

12 posted on 04/01/2011 8:45:09 AM PDT by thesharkboy (<-- looking for the silver lining)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ah, the golden goose - government jobs.


13 posted on 04/01/2011 8:54:40 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: Tigerized

Fewer farmers to feed the pigs...


14 posted on 04/01/2011 8:55:27 AM PDT by April Lexington (Study the Constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Understand, too, that the government jobs produce zero.....they are siphons of public earnings. NOTHING of value is produced by the Government, and the constant over-sight and regulation stifle productivity, innovation, and cost-effective production. We PAY much more for goods and services in the real world because of un-Constitutional interference in personal endeavors by the government, and bloated schemes to reward the politico’s donors.


15 posted on 04/01/2011 8:59:50 AM PDT by traditional1 ("Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: SeekAndFind
"its the governMENTAL dependency, stupid"...to bastardize a borrowed quote...

thanks for the post seekandfind...

16 posted on 04/01/2011 9:06:07 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: SeekAndFind; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; calcowgirl; Gilbo_3; ...
RE :” It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employees. Is it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

I pinged a great post a while back that said (my interpretation here) that government employees and government employee unions are the (sole) Island of the liberal/progressive/socialist dreams, where the employees get to decide their terms of employment without the laws of economics or competition or productivity to hinder them. It's the model of their utopia and their own safe Island to launch political attacks and battles from . (I think I wrote it better here LOL. )

They pay for political ads that portray their mission to rape the taxpayer as ‘protecting all worker's rights”. A liberal on MSNBC pointed out the other day that collective bargaining for government employees becomes 20% MORE popular and supported when they add the word ‘rights’ at the end. “The government is taking away workers rights and the workers are standing up for them.”. Be aware of the enemy's activity.

17 posted on 04/01/2011 9:08:54 AM PDT by sickoflibs ("It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: SeekAndFind

The parasite is now about to kill the host.


18 posted on 04/01/2011 9:15:36 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: sickoflibs

Government Unions Are Different

http://freemarketsfreepeople.net/?p=363

With the lack of market forces, taxpayers must rely exclusively upon management to say no to costly demands. Management in this case of the current issue in Wisconsin is the Governor, but the scenario is no different throughout other levels of government. County Executives, Mayors, & Town Councils all act as management in the government “corporation”. The government official must work even harder to represent the taxpayer in negotiations with public employee unions under these circumstances. There is a political party, however, that is beholden to the very government unions they are supposed to be negotiating with.


19 posted on 04/01/2011 9:28:20 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: SeekAndFind

For every one government job saved, a private job is not created.For every one government job created, a private job is destroyed.


20 posted on 04/01/2011 9:39:34 AM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: WOBBLY BOB
RE :”Government Unions Are Different

My point in #17 was they (Democrats/liberals) are purposefully blurring that fact and convincing non-government taxpayer voters that their rights are being threatened too by the government union measures. They are poll testing those phrases and using them as weapons. The fact that you and I and 99% of freepers understand the issue doesn't mean we have won (yet many freepers seem to think the opposite.)

Anyway here is attempt to regain the message, I posted a thread here with this great video in it:
Youtube : A Liberal Teacher explains Union Busting

21 posted on 04/01/2011 9:45:51 AM PDT by sickoflibs ("It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: mjp
Heard this a long time ago and it hit me then and still does:

Government doesn't work.

22 posted on 04/01/2011 9:56:31 AM PDT by Art in Idaho (Conservatism is the only hope for Western Civilization.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It is too late to stop the leftist vermin. This system of government was never intended to function with half the population behaving in the most despicable way any human could ever act.

If you have children then I suggest you all kiss them goodbye. There will be NOTHING in their futures but poverty, misery, torment, and death. They are finished. They are as good as dead.

The only thing to do is get some revenge on the enemy and then take our own lives before they manage to capture us.


23 posted on 04/01/2011 9:59:26 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: SeekAndFind

How many paper pushers can they hire? who’s going to do the labor work?Oh wait I got the mexicans.


24 posted on 04/01/2011 10:13:49 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: SpringtoLiberty; SeekAndFind; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; calcowgirl
A tax revolt, or serious enforcement of the 10th amendment by courageous governors.

Bloat in the government payroll is not limited to just the Federal government, so I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here.

25 posted on 04/01/2011 10:20:46 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: The_Reader_David

Thank you for the only sane post on this entire thread.


26 posted on 04/01/2011 10:22:04 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: edcoil; SeekAndFind
We only have the government to blame and our fellow citizens that elected liberals.

The statist disease is not limited to liberals. Conservatives suffer from it too.

27 posted on 04/01/2011 10:24:32 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: rabscuttle385

In a word?

Secession.

A free and independent republic of Texas.


28 posted on 04/01/2011 10:25:24 AM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: rabscuttle385

Republicans suffer from it.

Conservatives, by definition, do not.


29 posted on 04/01/2011 10:28:16 AM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: SpringtoLiberty
We may need to start thinking about a plan B. I'm not sure elections are going to undue the damage. A tax revolt, or serious enforcement of the 10th amendment by courageous governors.

Our last chance before plan B is the 2012 election. If we don't take both houses and the White House with a conservative revolution and if they do what needs to be done, we may survive. That's why 2012 is so important. Barring that it's on to plan B. . .

30 posted on 04/01/2011 10:28:43 AM PDT by Art in Idaho (Conservatism is the only hope for Western Civilization.)
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To: SpringtoLiberty
Republicans suffer from it. Conservatives, by definition, do not.

Definitions aside, many conservatives are dumb enough to vote Republican--even statist Republican--even if evidence of their statist tendencies is paraded about in public.

31 posted on 04/01/2011 10:30:53 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: rabscuttle385

I’m not trying to pick a fight here.

I’m just saying that if you ARE a conservative, then statism is the exact opposite of what you believe in.

Maybe what you meant is that are people in the “Republican” party who claim to be conservatives but are only using true conservatives to keep themselves in office.

In mu opinion those people are more dangerous than the die hard liberal.


32 posted on 04/01/2011 10:32:19 AM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: rabscuttle385
Thank you for the only sane post on this entire thread.

Even though he is correct on the manufacturing data it does change the reality of explosive government growth destroying our Republic. The parasite class (govt at all levels) is growing at a pace that unsustainable. The parasite class will surely crush and kill the golden goose of capitalism.

At all levels government spending and controls are pushing us towards a socialist hell. For our Republic to survive, government at ALL levels must be severely slashed.

33 posted on 04/01/2011 10:35:29 AM PDT by sand88
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To: Art in Idaho

I want so bad for us to turn it around in 2012. I really really do.

But look what has happened in WI.

The people voted in record numbers and in an historic fashion to get conservatives in office.

But, did that matter to the left? Even after they passed a LAW! the leftists have found ways to ignore the will of the people. So, although I want to believe that an electoral repudiation of statism will happen in 2012, I think that the left is too emboldened and too entrentched for elections to matter now.


34 posted on 04/01/2011 10:36:52 AM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: rabscuttle385
The statist disease is not limited to liberals. Conservatives suffer from it too.

you hit the nail on the head. The Statist on our side are just as dangerous as the ones on the left. Statism is a cancer on Liberty.

35 posted on 04/01/2011 10:37:47 AM PDT by sand88
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To: rabscuttle385

Not conservatives but many in the current GOP-Republican party.


36 posted on 04/01/2011 10:43:40 AM PDT by edcoil (Rule One: Fear No Man)
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To: SpringtoLiberty
Secession. A free and independent republic of Texas.

That doesn't do anything to solve the problem.

A "free and independent republic of Texas" can just as easily suffer from rampant, runaway statism as a nation of fifty States and associated territories.

37 posted on 04/01/2011 10:46:10 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: rabscuttle385

All governments fail. All of them. A new nation would give us the opportunity to return to first principals of liberty and then we would have a few generations before yet another eventual bloat and revolt.

Nothing new under the sun here.


38 posted on 04/01/2011 11:25:10 AM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Depressing! Just wait until the government sector (and net recipients of government largesse) become 50% of the population. They'll just vote themselves bigger paychecks.

It's time to go Galt, folks!

I've been explaining the situation as if this were an upside-down food pyramid. Growth and prosperity begins with the raw material and manufacturing base. If it's healthy enough, we can have a thriving service sector. On top of this is government, supported only by the profitability of all the sectors beneath it.

Unfortunately, the base is dwindling, which means there will be less demand for services, which means we can afford less and less government. But, even through this ongoing recession, government has been the one and only growth sector. It's insane.

39 posted on 04/01/2011 11:49:25 AM PDT by Fredgoblu
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To: SeekAndFind

Consumer Non-Producers !


40 posted on 04/01/2011 12:22:38 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: SeekAndFind
There is more to this than the economical imbalance of trying to serve the debt created by union dependency and entitlements.

Government workers will naturally vote for more government - that also means voting for democrats. It becomes a cultural path for them. Along with that culture is the acquiescence or belief in one world governance and Agenda 21; the use of environmental smoke and mirrors to control all economy and property.

I think we all see the inevitable future and understand that we are now past the point of no return.

World governance ...world tax ...world courts ...Sharia.

I doubt we can turn back...

41 posted on 04/01/2011 9:23:12 PM PDT by Baynative (Truth is treason in an empire of lies)
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To: SeekAndFind

Jobs related to government contracts are some of the few in the private sector that offer more than the civil service. Their employers, like the civil services, are able to outbid private employers. Not unfailingly true: the inventive industries are expanding enough that only the second-rate in such fields work for the government. One can be pretty sure it was second-raters who were doing the inspection down on the oil rig that blew up.


42 posted on 04/01/2011 9:42:43 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: thesharkboy
Do his positions on borders and amnesty invalidate his message? If so, how? If not, then what's the point of your post?

Exactly. I knew wasn't the only one thinking along that line.

If you can't appreciate the pure beauty of the violin after hearing this, something's wrong with your ears.

43 posted on 04/01/2011 10:42:44 PM PDT by rdb3 (The mouth is the exhaust pipe of the heart.)
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To: Fredgoblu

It’s the insane government salaries and benefits that hurts us the most. The average government salary is what? 65K? Add to that the free (or nearly free) health insurance, unbelievable 90% pensions, 20 year retirements, holidays, sick and vacation leave, etc. etc. etc. and you have a recipe for disaster. The only work these people do is come up with more regulations to shut down businesses or force them to move overseas. How much land does the government own? Things like parks, wilderness areas(means keep people and business out) take up HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of acres of productive land in this country. This should all be turned over to private business to run. That alone would create thousands and thousands (of normal paying) jobs instead of having thousands of bureaucrats running around crying about some three toed centipede.


44 posted on 04/02/2011 3:36:42 AM PDT by conservaterian (Sarah/DeMint '12)
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To: SpringtoLiberty

“But look what has happened in WI. Even after they passed a LAW! the leftists have found ways to ignore the will of the people.”

That is very disturbing; here in NJ when we vote down school budgets, rather than simply leave the budget at the current level, there is some kind of process that results in increases anyway. Now that many people pay $10K+ in property taxes (that is how our public schools are funded), the taxpaying population and corporations are leaving and they still won’t shrink school systems/cut budgets. One result of the teachers’ battle with Governor Christie is that the teachers have kept everything while the cops & firemen get cut (since they can now only raise taxes so much, and it is not even enough for the teachers’ pay increases and costs of benefits - they simply cut somewhere else).

The Democrats’ prime concern has to be stopping the migration of taxpaying Americans from the lib states; they take their electoral votes and tax revenues with them, leaving illegal aliens, our permanent underclass, and the public employees to “administer” the reservation with few resources. If they “nationalize” the socialism, there would be nowhere to flee to; the serfs would be stuck on their communes. They push home ownership at all costs because it ideally generates a property tax revenue stream and they realize that high-earning tenants are the first to flee.


45 posted on 04/02/2011 3:40:29 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: sand88

“The parasite class (govt at all levels) is growing at a pace that unsustainable. The parasite class will surely crush and kill the golden goose of capitalism. For our Republic to survive, government at ALL levels must be severely slashed.”

There is no better illustration of this than what has happened in CA, NJ and NY, yet there is no willingness to face reality. I’m glad to see Governor Christie isn’t losing popularity, as he is the only governor of the 3 states to tell it like it is. Governor Cuomo has presented a reduced budget, but I’m hearing a lot of people call it smoke and mirrors. Being ignorant of the details, I’ll wait & see; Like NJ and CA, NY has lost a lot of taxpayers and the corporations that used to employ them.


46 posted on 04/02/2011 3:45:34 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: SeekAndFind

So America.

How’s that outsourcing thing working?


47 posted on 04/02/2011 3:45:49 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (Palin / Trump 2012 - America First)
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To: RobbyS

“Jobs related to government contracts are some of the few in the private sector that offer more than the civil service. Their employers, like the civil services, are able to outbid private employers.”

Many of these jobs are subject to the “51% of workers must be certain ethnic minorities or women” as well; the taxpayers tha fund the projects are often prevented from working on them by their skin color and gender. To compensate for the tokens, a job that requires 50 men simply hires 49 white men and 51 “others” in order to get the work done; what a bargain!


48 posted on 04/02/2011 3:49:55 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: SpringtoLiberty
A free and independent republic of Texas.

FedGov™ is evil. There is only three choices you can make in the face of evil.

  1. Join the evil bastards.
  2. Kill The evil.
  3. Seperate (secede)from the evil.

Can I come too? All I ask is don't shoot me coming across the border, I'm on your side.

49 posted on 04/02/2011 3:59:08 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: rabscuttle385
A "free and independent republic of Texas" can just as easily suffer from rampant, runaway statism as a nation of fifty States and associated territories.

As long as people like you stay away. Texas will be just fine.

50 posted on 04/02/2011 4:00:50 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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