Personally, this is my problem with libertarianism (big or little 'L').
The libertarian philosophy sounds wonderful! Yet, it denies reality.
People are imperfect. Libertarians fail to truly understand that simple fact.
Flame away!
Posted on 04/03/2011 2:54:35 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
1) Divine laws exist that men did NOT make, and these “natural laws” are good.
2) Government is limited by the REALITY of natural laws.
3) Laws exist that men DID make, and these “human laws” are often bad because they deny the REALITY of natural and Divine law.
4) Law is the material necessary for the construction of a human conscience, and every human being has a conscience built with either good or bad law.
5) Government cannot save the human soul, but can encourage either its redemption or damnation, therefore, it must also be restrained by the Divine influence of conscience in order to limit the potential damages within its grasp and capability.
6) A conscience built upon good law acknowledges reality and thereby fosters the liberty produced by limited government.
7) A conscience built upon bad law denies reality and thereby fosters the tyranny produced by unlimited government.
8) America was founded by followers of the only religion in the world that exclusively recognized the absolute, non-optional REALITY that government was (and is) limited: Christianity. This is why America must remain a “religion-sanctioned state” as intended by the founders, and refuse both the “state-sanctioned religion” and “secular-humanist state” they rejected.
9) Christianity is as necessary for the maintenance of limited government, as it is incompatible with unlimited government.
10) Secular humanism is the enemy of limited government, and remains incompatible with authentic Christianity.
11) The most powerful way to limit government is to chain… to codify man-created laws to the laws men did not make.
12) A secular-humanist version of conservatism (like libertarianism) denies reality, by refusing to promote the laws necessary for the construction of a human conscience, and, therefore, produces no more lasting liberty than overt liberalism. (See points #4 and #5 above).
Personally, this is my problem with libertarianism (big or little 'L').
The libertarian philosophy sounds wonderful! Yet, it denies reality.
People are imperfect. Libertarians fail to truly understand that simple fact.
Flame away!
No flames from me! :-)
I agree, even if I did post it! ;-)
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
- John Adams
Absolute bunk.
Chrisianity clicked along and grew for more than 1750 years without ever recognizing "that government was (and is) limited".
In fact, Christianity worked hand-in-hand with most of the tyrannical governments wherein it existed for most of that 1750 years.
The founding of the United States was done by reasonable people who were just as sick and tired of religious tyranny as they were of political tyranny.
Virtually every component of the principles AND the processes that they put place came from biblical sources. You know, the stuff they were virtually all steeped in their whole lives.
Absolutely right.
ping
Yes, you're sorry; you got that part right.
I talked to Him, and He wants you, and others like you, to quit making stuff up and assigning His name to it.
Trolls troll trollingly.
Nice way to hijack the thread troll.
Now as we were saying....
These 12 statements are at the very core of the divide in our country. We do not have a political or economic crisis in America, we have crisis of conscience.
When someone posts a religious article in "News", it is subject to any and all criticisms.
The item #8 on which I commented is blatantly contrary to the historical record of the past two thousand years, and blatantly contrary to the historical records of the founding of the USA.
These 12 statements are at the very core of the divide in our country. We do not have a political or economic crisis in America, we have crisis of conscience.
We do have problems of all kinds in our country. Blatant dishonesty and lack of reasoning are among the worst.
Making stuff up for religious propaganda purposes is no better than the liberals making stuff up for communist propaganda purposes.
Some wise fellow once said, "... the truth shall set you free."
Well, someone had to come along and illustrate the pastor’s deeply insightful points. Thanks for volunteering.
What can I say? Takes one to know one.
Yes, even baseless and ignorant ones.
Not that this is a "religious article." Samuel Adams, the father of the American Revolution and the original instigator of the real Tea Party, made all the same points at the very beginning, in a completely civic and governmental context.
Just so we know where you’re coming from, could you please give us a brief synopsis of the “historical record of the past 2000 years”?
And as for the “historical records of the founding” I belive several posters have posted those. The Declaration and Common Sense are two that stick out.
But maybe there is some hidden feemason diaries that really say that they all hated Christ and wanted a humanist society to replace the churchs they all worshiped in every Sunday their entire lives.
sfl
The difference between good government, exercised according to the immutable laws of nature and of Nature’s God, and tyranny, still, to the present day, comes down to the simple difference between right and wrong, a distinction that can made in almost every case even by a small child.
The “historical record of the past 2000 years” was studied in several different parts in several of those school years. Those parts included studies about the Holy Roman Empire, The Dark Ages, The Renaissance, the exploration and settling of the New World, with occasional miscellaneous topics thrown in about the wretched European continent wracked with non-stop religious war, The Protestant Reformation (actually several of these), the back-and-forth haggling between Catholics and Protestants in the British Isles, etc., etc., etc.
US History (at several different grade levels) generally covered the settling of the North American continent, through the French and Indian War, the Revolution, the Civil War, Industrial Revolution, and on up through World War II.
A History of the American People, by Paul Johnson, is an excellent college-level text of the American people, from the early settlements through the twentieth century, with a strong focus on the impact of various religious groups on the development of the different colonies, and on the development of the USA as a nation. Johnson's previous book, A History of the Jewish People, is also widely acclaimed to be an excellent study, but I haven't read that one yet.
There are also many good books that focus specifically on the Revolutionary War period, including the years under the Articles of Confederation and the development of the US Constitution, and the first few years of the new republic.
If you can bother yourself to read just a little of this stuff, get back to me, and we can discuss some interesting stuff about history, like how, once the British were defeated, the greatest threat to liberty and unity were the various religious zealots who insisted that their personal congregations' religious dogma should be the alpha and omega of the Constitution.
Here's a simple internet source with lots of links that gives some hints why many of the Founders saw it necessary to separate our politics from religion, and these very wise Founders' arguments held sway against the zealots who would have turned this new-born nation into the same religious slaughterhouse they left behind in Europe.
Those who believe in American Exceptionalism argue that there are many ways that the United States clearly differs from the European world that it emerged from.
One claim is that while much of European history was wracked with religious wars and conflicts, with tension between Protestants and Catholics ran high, and often erupted into bloody conflicts like the French Wars of Religion, the Spanish Inquisition, the persecution of Protestants under Mary I of England, and the Thirty Years War, the United States has been a religiously pluralistic country since its founding, with no experience of large-scale religious wars. This argument is weakened by a reliance on comparing events from 16th and 17th century European history with later American history, and by a history of small-scale religious persecution ranging from attacks on the followers of Anne Hutchinson by the Puritans to the Utah War of the late 19th century, but it does reflect an important aspect of America's self-image that is not shared by many nations.
Why are you on this site meadsjn?
Also, nice ad hominom attack to lead off. Perfectly sanctimonious and belittling.
I give this troll a 6/10. The wall of text detracted from your score as well as all the generalities. Next time try peppering your rants with some dates and locations, maybe a name thrown in there just for fun.
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