Posted on 04/30/2011 5:57:09 PM PDT by mlo
What is that link supposed to be?
Then I misunderstood you. I apologize.
Yes it was. So you should stop reading other things into it.
Wanting to see evidence is not a problem. It's how you handle evidence that is a problem.
As I've already indicated, saying Obama has witheld personal documents, or asking to see more information, is not irrational. It also doesn't make you a birther. Birthers go way beyond that. It's what they do with the information that's available that is irrational.
You dance purty.
Perhaps. Either that, or you are thinking that a dual citizen can't also be a natural born citizen. But that's not true. They are not mutually exclusive.
A natural born Amercian citizen is such because of our law. If some other country also considers him a citizen because of his parentage, that's none of our concern. Amercian law does not bow to foreign law.
Sorry. Supposed to be this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c&feature=player_embedded
It seems like dancing to you only because you are having trouble following logical thought. When you can’t follow it it seems random.
Actually, proof still is needed.
Goodnight.
BTW, *I* wanted him to produce the long form too. I just thought it would only confirm what we already knew. Guess what?
I also like Palin. So looks like Jim and I are on the same page so far. :-)
No, that would be you.
"Including that the Founders did not risk it all in order to give it to someone with divided loyalties."
Meaning what? The Founders prohibited anyone that wasn't a citizen by birthright from being President. That's the constraint they chose. You can't immgrate here and fill that office.
It's an objective measure. They couldn't impose some mental subjective "divided loyalty" test. That's silly. They had to choose something external. They chose the citizenship test.
******
Do you have any theory why Obama went to all that trouble and expense---he sent a lawyer all the way to Hawaii to pick it up and bring it back to Washington---to obtain his long form birth certificate from Hawaii in the first place?
Do you think that the President of the United States simply lost the one he had? People lose birth certificates all the time.
Or, is it possible that Obama NEVER had a long form birth certificate to begin with? Just wondering.
Then I do disagree with you. I do not see how a person of dual citizenship at birth can ever be an NBC.
Stanley Dunham was underage when Obama was born, and under US law at that time, his citizenship was that of the father. He was a British subject. I believe this law no longer pertains but it was the law in effect in 1961, and would have applied to Obama. Obama would at birth have been a British subject, or possibly a dual citizen.
It would be a convoluted path for someone to be born an NBC and also be a dual citizen. Unless you disagree with the definition of an NBC as someone born in the USA of two parents who are citizens. In which case I would disagree with you on that point. I think the Vattel definition is the operative one.
The puzzle is especially interesting if the “citizen” was adopted by an Indonesian and given Indonesian citizenship, and never applied to be naturalized as an American citizen.
If this person was a British subject at birth (according to USA law), then adopted as an Indonesian citizen as a child, and never reapplied to the State Department to return to American citizenship in some form or fashion as an adult, and applied for student aid as a foreign citizen, then it would be an interesting undertaking to determine this person’s actual legal citizenship.
Since long before Obama was elected, liberal journalists have attempted to deceive the public about Certifigate. One of the techniques used by these hacks has been to withhold basic, relevant facts from their audience. To keep this reasonably short, I'll provide just three.
Withheld Fact #1: If Obama had been born outside the United States, he would not be an American citizen.
Here is a link to the relevant portion of the United States Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
See that "state.gov" in the URL? That means that the document comes from the U.S. Department of State website.
Here is the relevant section of that document:
7 FAM 1133.2-2 Original Provisions and Amendments to Section 301
(CT:CON-204; 11-01-2007)a. Section 301 as Effective on December 24, 1952: When enacted in 1952,section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children. The ten-year transmission requirement remained in effect from 12:01 a.m. EDT December 24, 1952, through midnight November 13, 1986, and still is applicable to persons born during that period. As originally enacted, section 301(a)(7) stated: Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States by such citizen parent may be included in computing the physical presence requirements of this paragraph.
Obama's mother was eighteen when she gave birth. Fourteen plus five equals nineteen.
In other words, Obama's birthplace matters. For America to have elected a non-citizen as president would have been a huge national embarrassment, not to mention a blackmail risk. A president hiding such a secret would clearly be unfit for office. Obama's birth history deserved serious investigation, yet the MSM refused to investigate.
Withheld Fact #2: Obama failed to release his best-quality birth certificate until a few days ago.
In the dozens of MSM articles on Certifigate that I read, almost none mentioned Obama's long form birth certificate. The MSM refrain repeated ad nauseum was "HE HAS ALREADY RELEASED HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE," referring to the short form Certification of Live Birth (COLB), implying that it was the only birth certificate available. That was a lie by omission, and the MSM propagandists shouted it to the rooftops. They never mentioned -- not once that I saw -- that the long form contains additional information that could help verify Obama's place of birth: the name of his birth hospital and the name and signature of the doctor who delivered him. Those are details that can be checked. If Obama had been born outside the United States, and his birth had subsequently been registered with the Hawaiian Department of Health, he might have been able to produce a valid short form COLB, but he would not have been able to produce a valid long form showing a real Hawaiian birth hospital and the signature of a real Hawaiian obstetrician. The long form is thus much better proof of Obama's Hawaiian place of birth than the short form. Since the long form was always available, there never was any point in worrying about the legitimacy of the short form. The short form was just a distraction from the main event.
Because Obama's birthplace matters to America, it was important for Obama to provide the BEST AVAILABLE EVIDENCE proving that he was born in Hawaii. He wasn't applying for a Hawaiian driver's learner's permit or voter registration card. Second-rate documentation might be good enough for those purposes. He was trying to prove his eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States. Yet the MSM's position was that anyone who wanted to see the best available evidence of Obama's place of birth was crazy or racist or both. Which is itself crazy or racist or both.
Withheld Fact #3: The only thing preventing Barack Obama from releasing his long form birth certificate was Barack Obama.
Hawaiian Governor Neil Abercrombie said that he planned to put the rumors surrounding Obama's birth certificate to rest. He failed to do so. After a delay, he said that he was unable to release Obama's birth documents because of privacy concerns. The MSM refused to report the obvious: the problem was not with Hawaii's privacy laws, but with Obama's failure to consent. Once Obama consented, the Hawaiian Department of Health instantly released the long form.
In other words, Obama could have ended this mess years ago by using the same amount of effort he would need to lift up his little finger. He chose not to do so, which tells some of us plenty about our president.
How about some evidence of fact:
A. Obama was required to give proof of birth before the congress and States (Hawaii required proof at the time). He gave something that wasn't his birth record.
B. Obama the MSM politicians and even conservatives here stated this was all the information required.
C. Then the required form shows up about three years after it was required and after he got the job.
D. the lie was outed when the required form was submitted. The other forms were not the proper forms
At this point it is so easy to speculate if the form is real. Why? because I FEEL!
That is right I feel after we were lied to by each and everyone of these people. They have no credibility left.
The difference between my feelings and liberals is I base my feelings on facts.
You are damn right I feel!
That’s a fairly strident, idiotic assessment.
Wrongy Dongy dufus! The Constitution requires an NBC with the only exception being those (like Washington) who were alive when this doc was written! You’re a leftwing troll...
JC
No. You couldn’t simply be a citizen and become President. You had to be a Natural Born Citizen. Under your definition an anchor baby could be President and that is NOT the intent of the Founders and is a perfect example of divided loyalties. Natural Born Citizen WAS the “test”.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.