Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

(AF 447) Recording Indicates Pilot Wasn't In Cockpit During Critical Phase
Der Spiegel ^ | 5.23.2011 | Guibbaud Christophe

Posted on 05/23/2011 6:36:43 AM PDT by libh8er

What happened on board the Air France jet that crashed into the Atlantic en route from Rio to Paris? According to information obtained by SPIEGEL from the analysis of flight recorder data, pilot Marc Dubois appears not to have been in the cockpit at the time the deadly accident started to unfold.

The fate of Air France Flight 447 was sealed in just four minutes. That short time span began with the first warning message on one of the Airbus A330 aircraft's monitors and ended with the plane crashing into the Atlantic between Brazil and Africa, killing all 228 people on board.

Since last week, investigators from France's BEA civil aviation safety bureau have been analyzing the flight data and voice recordings extracted from the cockpit of the Air France flight that crashed on June 1, 2009 while traveling from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. What they have learned from the recordings seems to suggest both technical and human failure.

Sources close to the investigative team have revealed that the recordings indicate that Marc Dubois, the aircraft's 58-year-old pilot, was not in the cockpit at the time the trouble began. It is reportedly audible that Dubois rushed back into the cockpit. "He called instructions to the two co-pilots on how to save the aircraft," the source with inside knowledge of the investigation told SPIEGEL.

But their attempts to save the plane were ultimately in vain.

At the beginning of May, underwater robots were able to retrieve the flight recorders from the wreckage almost four kilometers (2.5 miles) below the surface of the Sargasso Sea. Two weekends ago, investigators succeeded in extracting data from the black boxes. Within 24 hours, reports were circulating suggesting that the crash seemed more likely the result of pilot error than a manufacturing flaw by Airbus.

(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; af447; airbus; airfrance; marcdubois
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-112 next last

1 posted on 05/23/2011 6:36:47 AM PDT by libh8er
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: libh8er

So his going to the bathroom caused the crash?


2 posted on 05/23/2011 6:38:09 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: libh8er

The Captain would have flown the first leg of the flight, and so he would have been taking his break in the crew rest area. Normal procedure.

Turbulence would have alerted him to trouble, and he would have then rushed back to duty.

So, nothing unusual in the article, although they try to make it sound bad.


3 posted on 05/23/2011 6:41:45 AM PDT by ltc8k6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
So his going to the bathroom caused the crash?

My luck is every time I try to go to the bathroom my phone rings. Maybe the pilot's luck was worse than mine is.

4 posted on 05/23/2011 6:42:32 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ltc8k6

I can only imagine that it was horrifying ride down to the ocean.


5 posted on 05/23/2011 6:43:55 AM PDT by TSgt ("Some folks just need killin'" - Sling Blade (2006))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
I can see the FAA over reacting and requiring all long haul pilots be catheterized.
6 posted on 05/23/2011 6:45:24 AM PDT by Never on my watch (WTF happened to my country?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

**IF** human error is the real cause, then it’s not just the left seat guy who was in error.

It’s easy to get complacent when you’re on autopilot and have experienced hundreds if not thousands of hours of prior trouble-free automated flight control, and those have encouraged you to be less than fully attentive and/or situationally aware.

The folks IN the cockpit likely had SECONDS to gain control of the aircraft after the autopilot said “I completely and absolutely give up in 50 different ways”.

Sadly it appears they did NOT take the right series of initial steps in the right time frame.

Yes, I know the facts are still a long way off, but ...


7 posted on 05/23/2011 6:47:35 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: OldMissileer
My luck is every time I try to go to the bathroom my phone rings.

That's why they invented cellphones. But, they don't work on transoceanic flights.

8 posted on 05/23/2011 6:48:35 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: libh8er

In that Egypt Air crash the one guy left the cockpit and the other started the death chanting.. Hopefully not the case here. If so, we’ll get the transcripts though. Not anymore.


9 posted on 05/23/2011 6:50:20 AM PDT by Tolsti2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: libh8er

10 posted on 05/23/2011 6:51:13 AM PDT by libh8er
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HereInTheHeartland; Jack Hydrazine; MortMan; Trod Upon; Moonman62; PiperShade; Clint Williams

<< AF 447 PING >>


11 posted on 05/23/2011 6:51:35 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: libh8er
Dead Pilots always make the best culprits!

(No need to worry about direct testimony or pesky rebuttals).

12 posted on 05/23/2011 6:53:02 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

pure conjecture and I’m not a pilot but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

The tube on the outside of the plane iced over and the computer was receiving inaccurate air speed information.

The plane stalled and the pilots spent as much time fighting the computer as they did trying to recover from a stall.

Assuming they were at approximately 35,000 feet they would have had at least 4 minutes to recover from the stall before impacting the water. They should have been able to recover if the computer let them. Or perhaps they did recover and were too aggressive causing some kind of structural failure.


13 posted on 05/23/2011 6:57:16 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: libh8er

None of this yet explains how they came to be in the middle of a huge thunderstorm. Events leading up to the last 4 minutes are far more interesting in my book.


14 posted on 05/23/2011 6:57:45 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolsti2
Two passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on the Air France flight which crashed with the loss of 228 lives, it has emerged.

SKYNews: Terror Names Linked To Doomed Flight AF 447

15 posted on 05/23/2011 6:59:53 AM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: libh8er

Classic ‘Q/coffin corner’ scenario as shown in that illustration.

Illustration lists @ 2:11 a possible “deep stall” but my understanding of a deep stall is that it peculiar to T-Tail designs - like the MD-80 and the B-727.

But my Vne is a mere 128KIAS and we never get close. Why waste the gas? (have to look at that placard again) .

Q corner puts the nose down, and deep stall keeps you nose up. .... on PowerPoint anyways; reality I have no clue. So I dunno. Never flown or trained to fly a swept wing fast mover.


16 posted on 05/23/2011 7:00:35 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Other flight crews in similar Airbus ships with the same failures DID recover from the condition. ALL involved loss of altitude, IIRC. this is not the first time it happened.

For whatever reasons, this crew did/could not recover the aircraft, likely from some sort of a stall condition with very limited attitude information available to them.

Again, I fly small, single engine slow-movers with that spinning thing out front. IT is VERY hard to lose control of a Champ, a Tri-Pacer, or a 152, or a 172, or a Rocket, etc etc


17 posted on 05/23/2011 7:04:52 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: I cannot think of a name
The “pilot” is not necessarily any more capable at flying the plane or knowing the emergency procedures than the copilot(s). However, the pilot in command is always the one held responsible when a plane goes down.. regardless of the circumstances. Changing the rules so that the PIC cannot leave the cockpit at anytime during a long flight won't make air transportation any safer, but it might make a few in the public feel a little safer. Feel good solutions are what most "laws" created by the FAA are all about anyway.
18 posted on 05/23/2011 7:09:18 AM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
I think if it were day time and the pilots could see the ocean surface below, they may have been able to recover from the stall.
19 posted on 05/23/2011 7:09:51 AM PDT by libh8er
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: libh8er

I’m guessing pitot tube de-icing might have come in handy.


20 posted on 05/23/2011 7:13:43 AM PDT by Ronald_Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-112 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson