Posted on 06/03/2011 10:50:23 AM PDT by SmithL
Jack Kevorkian and his supporters portrayed the death doc as a compassionate man who offered "death with dignity" to individuals suffering from a poor quality of life. I always saw him as a man who preyed on vulnerable individuals by telling them their lives weren't worth living -- as I watched Kevorkian survive over the years, despite medical problems that dwarfed those of many of his victims.
In 2007, I wrote:
Fans of Kevorkian ought to be asking themselves: In that the ailing Kevorkian is in worse physical shape than many of the people whose lives he helped snuff out, why hasn't the death doc used his vaunted "medicide" on himself? . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
So, there is NEVER a reason for war? Never a reason to defend yourself - sounds like a pascifistic attitude to me. I am no pascifist.
When you take it upon yourself to decide FOR me what I can, and cannot do; your life is forfeit. Much the same mine would be if I decided to waltz into your house, and decide that your belongings should be mine, or right to worship is superceded by my religion.
That's what freedom is folks, the RIGHT to decide for yourself, to live your life as you wish. It is not the freedom to trample my rights - you do so at your peril. That's why we had a war with Great Britian, a Civil war; and we are fighting the Islamics today. They have the opinion that THEIR way is the right way, and they are willing to kill us to force us to kneel at their alter. You are apparently willing to do so; because you won't kill to defend yourself. Then, hypocritically you have decided that I must abide by your will. Hence my comparison to Hitler, Stalin and Obama. I refuse to submit to your will - you will allow me to make my own life's decisions, as I will allow you to make yours. I wouldn't dream of forcing my will upon anyone else - and anyone who would force their will upon me - well, there is a REASON the Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms; and it wasn't for 'coon hunting.
I’m sorry that you don’t know the difference between just war and murder. You seem very confused on a number of important points, frankly.
Consider, the Bill of Rights grants us the ‘Inalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness’. Do I have the ‘inalienable right’ to be a slave, if I so desire? Do I have the right to seek misery? Yes, these are my God-given rights - as is the right to seek death.
You seek to oppress others, to force your will - and all tyrants are opposed by Freedom loving individuals. Just as I need not ask, or care about your opinion as to my church, I need not ask your opinion to terminate my life.
Here's a real simple litmus test. A murder victim is NEVER a willing participant. Murder, by it's very essence is a violent act perpetrated against an unwilling victim.
Perhaps if you knew anything about ALS, you would be a bit more compassionate. Think of it as a death sentence that will end with your slow suffocation, where you are just too exhausted to breathe on your own. You see, first you lose your balance and can't hold things. You trip easily, you can't hold your knife and fork. So, someone feeds you and you wind up wheelchair bound. Then you lose your ability to control your limbs entirely, followed by your bowels. Later on, you lose your ability to talk. Then, you find yourself having to consciously concentrate on breathing.
You can't communicate, you can't eat, dress, move, move your fingers or toes - and in the end; you will lie in your bed gasping until you die.
But hey; your kind and loving God WANTS you to suffer this - it must give you and him a heck of a good laugh to watch someone wither and die like this. If you are lucky; this will all happen and you will die in just 6 months or so; if you are not so lucky - you can hang in there for several years in bed.
Meanwhile, the medical bills will mount; you will exceed your $2 Million medical insurance allowance, some self-righeous and arrogant tool will use every legal means to stop you, or your spouse from the inevitable. You will leave behind a bankrupt spouse, without a home, retirement or savings.
But, as you feel good about your decision; that's all that matters, right? My sincere advice? Do not get in the way of someone who doesn't believe as you do, it will not end well. Show them the same level of respect they show you; allow them to live and die, as they see fit. You are free to make whatever decision you want with your life; but not someone else’s.
Consider, the Bill of Rights grants us the ‘Inalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness’. Do I have the ‘inalienable right’ to be a slave, if I so desire? Do I have the right to seek misery? Yes, these are my God-given rights - as is the right to seek death.
You seek to oppress others, to force your will - and all tyrants are opposed by Freedom loving individuals. Just as I need not ask, or care about your opinion as to my church, I need not ask your opinion to terminate my life.
Here's a real simple litmus test. A murder victim is NEVER a willing participant. Murder, by it's very essence is a violent act perpetrated against an unwilling victim.
Perhaps if you knew anything about ALS, you would be a bit more compassionate. Think of it as a death sentence that will end with your slow suffocation, where you are just too exhausted to breathe on your own. You see, first you lose your balance and can't hold things. You trip easily, you can't hold your knife and fork. So, someone feeds you and you wind up wheelchair bound. Then you lose your ability to control your limbs entirely, followed by your bowels. Later on, you lose your ability to talk. Then, you find yourself having to consciously concentrate on breathing.
You can't communicate, you can't eat, dress, move, move your fingers or toes - and in the end; you will lie in your bed gasping until you die.
But hey; your kind and loving God WANTS you to suffer this - it must give you and him a heck of a good laugh to watch someone wither and die like this. If you are lucky; this will all happen and you will die in just 6 months or so; if you are not so lucky - you can hang in there for several years in bed.
Meanwhile, the medical bills will mount; you will exceed your $2 Million medical insurance allowance, some self-righeous and arrogant tool will use every legal means to stop you, or your spouse from the inevitable. You will leave behind a bankrupt spouse, without a home, retirement or savings.
But, as you feel good about your decision; that's all that matters, right? My sincere advice? Do not get in the way of someone who doesn't believe as you do, it will not end well. Show them the same level of respect they show you; allow them to live and die, as they see fit. You are free to make whatever decision you want with your life; but not someone else’s.
Regardless of where you come down on the side of assisted suicide, the fact is that Kervorkian was a murderer:
‘In reviewing the lives and deaths of 47 people whose suicides have been publicly linked to Kevorkian since June 1990, Free Press reporters interviewed hundreds of people and examined thousands of pages of documents, including medical records, autopsy reports, marriage and divorce records, police files, personal notes and letters.
The investigation also debunks perceptions that Kevorkian only helps people who are terminally ill — likely to die within six months — or are in agonizing pain.
In fact, at least 60 percent of Kevorkian’s suicide patients were not terminal. At least 17 could have lived indefinitely and, in 13 cases, the people had no complaints of pain.’
You lack any knowledge or understanding of this matter. You don’t even know the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.
And your ignorance in this case is dangerous. It’s because of selfish, ignorant people like you that thousands more innocents will die today, brutally butchered because of selfishness.
And, as your last post shows, what you’ve really got is a deep problem with God.
You are projecting. I have no problem with God at all.
I have a problem with people who feel that they have some magical ability to dictate how other people live, or how they die. We are all dying; it’s part of life.
We are each accountable to God for how we live, and how we die - and we are accountable ONLY to him, not to you. I have no idea where any of our founding father’s writings, where anywhere in the Constitution you find that you have the ability to dictate how I chose to die.
Do you believe that my life is propety of the State? That only the State can decide when I can die? I claim my life as my own; you claim my life (something that I can find no American values in) as something you have a voice in.
Do you allow total strangers to dictate how you live your life? Is this somehow acceptable to you, or are you of the belief that you are master of your destiny, and somehow are master of mine as well?
Ok, let’s say that a strong 60% could have lived ‘indefintely’ and were not in pain. Would you want to live paralyzed from the neck down for the next decade? How about if you couldn’t talk, because you can’t breathe on your own. You can see, and listen; but can’t move your hands, head, or even chew your food. After some period of time, would you pray for a swift and painless death?
Would you want some arrogant, self-righeous stranger dictating that your family will be saddled with the bills, will lose the house, your savings and retirement? That you haven’t quite suffered enough to satisfy them. That no matter how much you want to die; the promise of jail time to anyone who would help you is a dire threat.
Or, would you prefer to call your family to your side, say your Goodbye and terminate your life, and leave the final judgement up to God. Do you think God would want you to be paralyzed? Unable to feed yourself, getting bedsores and deficating all over yourself because you have no control of such things. Unable to eat, to do anything or interact in any manner - just lying there. Sure, you can watch TV, listen and read - but you can’t do anything else.
I would chose death, and I suspect you would too. In biblical times, paralysis of this sort was a death sentence; the misery would eventually end. Today, we can maintain this state as long as the brain remains active; we don’t even need a heart or many internal organs to remain functional anymore.
This is why SOME (not all, but some) patients have successfully sued the hospital to remove their feeding tubes, and have voluntarily starved themselves to death. I guess if watching a person starve to death over a period of weeks makes you feel good - you are the ‘sick’ one. I would ask you ‘where is the Compassion for your fellow man?’
The merciful thing to do would be to first assure that they have the ability to make up their mind, and if they are sure they want to escape their mortal coil; to allow them the bliss of death in a painless and compassionate method - such as a strong opiate.
We show this compassion to an animal, but we deny this same level of compassion to another human. Some would call this Sadism.
Government has a sworn responsibility to protect innocent human life. That’s the primary reason for its existence. But you know nothing of any of this. As your posts show, you think the source of rights is a piece of paper, or your own will.
By the way, if you want to hear God’s views on this, read Genesis chapter nine. God’s imperative command when it comes to the shedding of innocent blood has never been revoked or revised.
In other words, take it up with Him, not me.
But the point is - YOU are injecting yourself into MY decision.
My stance is simple; what you do, is YOUR business. As long as you exploit no minor, cause no harm to anyone else, threaten or destroy anyone’s property - what you do is YOUR business. You are captain of your destiny. How long you live, what you do, and how you die is your choice, and yours alone. The State has no claims on you, or your soul.
I demand the same rights you claim, for myself and everyone else. Freedom for me, and Freedom for thee.
If I am not free to decide for myself; then I am not free.
Look. Your posts on this thread show you to be a danger to yourself and to others. And your worldview is one hundred and eighty degrees out of phase with the views of the founders of this republic.
You don’t have the first idea what true freedom is.
free·dom /ˈfridəm/ –noun
1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint: He won his freedom after a retrial.
2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.
3. the power to determine action without restraint.
Source
It would appear, based upon the definition of Freedom, that you have no idea what freedom is. You seem to have "Oppression" nailed down pretty good, though.
Sources please. Surely, to make such a blanket statement like that, you have some sources - or are you having an emotional temper-tantrum?
“Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.”
— George Washington
op·press /əˈprɛs/
–verb (used with object)
1. to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to a burdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power: a people oppressed by totalitarianism.
2. to lie heavily upon (the mind, a person, etc.): Care and sorrow oppressed them.
3. to weigh down, as sleep or weariness does.
Who made you King for a day? Why do you get to decide what other people do? How about you manage YOUR life, and let the rest of us manage ours? I think you have a pretty full plate just keeping track of your own business.
This falls onto the concept of:
lib·er·ty /ˈlɪbərti/ <–noun, plural -ties.
1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.
I reserve the right to make my own decisions. Some will be mistakes, but they are MINE ...no matter how stupid, immoral or selfish. This is my right, and you have no right to impose on them. God will judge me; not you.
As was pointed out many times on this thread (and others about Kevorkian lately), nothing is stopping you or any other suicidal person from killing themselves. Happens every day. There are organizations that print books - or at least one that I know of - to give people methods for suicide.
What you apparently want is the Huge Nanny State Government to hold your hand and give its stamp of approval on suicide and rope in all manner of medical profressionals from pharmacists to doctors to nurses and turn them into executioners.
You cannot tell me what is stopping people from committing suicide right now. What hyporcits who prate about “freedom” want is huge government intervention to help you with your death wish. Instead of just taking responsibility for your own life and death (as you falsely state is your reason), you have that freedom right this very cotton picking minute.
What you want is the government and medical profession to dance to your tune and take that responsibility away from you.
I think you are projecting a little bit.
I don’t want anything from the Gov’t. I don’t want to control anyone’s life. If you want to be tied to a machine - hey ... it’s YOUR life. In fact, your Nanny State is the one enforcing this mind-set.
I want to be left alone; I want to make my own decisions; without a single voice from anyone else. It’s really that simple - you are making this far more complex than it is.
If I am in an automobile crash, and wind up paralyzed from the neck down - I want the ability to die, WITHOUT the vote, permission or blessing of some arrogant 3rd party.
I also think, that if I am paralyzed - and I request help in a suicide; that anyone who is compassionate enough to grant my wish, not be thrown in jail for murder.
And, I’d think that if you were looking at the prospect of lying in a bed, unable to move, unable to talk, unable to control your bowels - in time, you too would pray for death.
No one HAS to do anything, that would be enslavement. However, if someone were to act with compassion; why would you punish them? You wouldn’t say that every Vetinarian in the USA is a sadist, yet they euthanize beloved pets every day of the year. It’s an act of mercy that we extend to beloved animals; but not to people who want nothing more than to die.
You, just like all the other death monger hypocrites who want Big Nanny State Government to authorize, legalize and assist your demises, you lie and ignore the actual facts.
Get your suicide book and pills/bags/guns or whatever you need now. Why depend helplessly on Huge Nanny State Government and try to get the medical aka as the “healing” profession involved in what you claim is merely your own personal decision?
You guys are nothing but weakling hypocrites wanting someone else to take responsibility for your suicides.
Any self-responsible adult would just take care of business himself without trying to get the Huge Nanny State Governemnt and entire medical profession involved by law.
You wanna die? Do it yourself like a man. Your whine “s’pose I’m all paralyzed and everything and can’t hold a gun to my head”.
Simple answer - write a living will or whatever they’re called and legally provide for such scenario and legally demand that if you become a quadrapelegic that no one give any nourishment or water. After all, it’s said to be a “euphoric” way to die.
Or if that’s not good enough for you, you can privately - no Nanny State Governemnt involved - get a friend or relative to agree to do whatever it takes before hand. It’s called planning for the future, what people do who - get this - take personal responsibility for their lives.
And your assumption that if I’m in unbearable pain or helplessness and will want to take my life - you have no clue what kind of life I’ve led or suffering I may have endured.
My, my, my ... such a temper tantrum.
I lie? Really, you have never met me; you know absolutely nothing about me - but you seem to think you do. Seems someone should be taking his meds.
You seem to be the one crying for the Nanny state. You want the Nanny state to decide if/when the plug should be pulled. Why? Are you that afraid of taking some personal responsibility?
And exactly how does one dodge taking responsibity for their suicide? That’s simply delusional. And who said anything about invoking the law to force a Doctor to terminate someone else? That’s the most childish arguement you can make. Good God ... if you are that delusional; you should be here. Here’s a hint. ... take what I’ve said, in any one of my posts ... and show me the error in logic that I have made.
Please ignore the voices in your head; as they are babbling about something completely unrelated (in any known dimension), to what I have said.
I reserve the right to make the decision to terminate my life; and I don’t need your ‘say so’ if I so choose. That does not make me suicidal, that makes me a ‘realist’. I don’t know what is going to happen to me on the drive home.
For example, if a gas truck collides with me; and I’m awash in gasoline and the inevitable spark hits ... I’m sitting in a ditch with 1,000 of burning gas. I’d consider it a act of mercy if the policeman (who cannot get close enough to rescue me) were to fire his weapon to kill me; lest I’m burned to death. That would be compassion.
You would charge such an act of mercy as ‘Murder’ for you cannot see the difference between a drive-by shooter; and an act of mercy. Perhaps someday you will be in a position to ‘enjoy’ the hypocrisy you are spouting.
And, by the way ... how generous and kind to offer to let me die by starvation. You cretin; you would scream for a man who put an animal down in this manner to spend year of his life in jail - but your “Christian charity” cannot extend that same compassion to another human. Again, perhaps destiny will allow you to participate in the cycle of life; so you too can witness a person slowly dying. Perhaps you are not wise enough to know this, but in all seriousness ... dying by starvation and dehydration is not nearly as “euphoric” as you would think. I’ve seen it first hand, it isn’t pretty.
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