Why 2012 election looks a lot like 1860

Dakota Voice ^ | June 4, 2011 | Star Parker

[wardaddy]

You can sure make that argument no matter how much smart folks here like Freepers and Mark Levin loved Lincoln....Reagan loved him too.

Discussion of Lincoln and his legacy reflects human nature.

I believe we need a Washington now more than a Lincoln...or a Madison would do

[nathanbedford]

We are litterally slaves to a partial socialist system and that is similar to the slavery issue back before the civil war.

No we are not.

[fabian]

Well, you did not refute any of my valid points as far as the taxation. The blacks were fully taxed, so to speak, as slaves...we now are about 20-50% taxed and if you try not paying some of it, you will go to jail and lose your property. And the slave owners did not regularly use the blacks wages to kill unborn babies; ie, tax payer funded planned parenthood.

[FreeReign]

Somewhere among us there is the man for the time and we desperately need him to step forward. Is it Paul Ryan? Is it Gov. Perry? Could it be Sarah Palin?

Palin and Ryan are not afraid to speak the truth about Obama, the Democrats and the media. That is the kind of candidate we need for this time. I would also add Bachmann and Cain to that list.

Perry?? What sign has he show that he is the one for this time.

[Psalm 144]

“A fatuous comparison.”

Accurate criminal profiling.

[nathanbedford]

Lincoln is the most central character in the ending of the Old Republic and the establishment of the increasingly despotic central state that we all must serve today.

I am a loss to understand how Lincoln is responsible for light bulbs or how he enslaved free men but I am inclined to agree with you, as I have already posted, about the abortions.

As to Lincoln's heavy handedness in conducting the war, I have already acknowledged that.

There is every evidence that Lincoln was quite prepared to accept the Confederacy back into the Union with "malice toward none" and John Wilkes Booth deprived us of knowing that for a certainty. The radical Republicans who ran reconstruction were so adamant that they nearly convicted the impeached Andrew Johnson but might not have been nearly so presumptuous against Abraham Lincoln, of their own party. After reconstruction, the South in many respects returned to its traditional role of state sovereignty which lasted until Woodrow Wilson. Even after Wilson, the South was still solid in terms of its independence in many respects even through the New Deal and until Lyndon Johnson really finished federalism off.

The historical sweep of the Industrial Revolution, the migration of peoples, westward expansion, the Great Depression, 2 world wars, and the general federalization because the income tax poured money into Washington, cannot be blamed on Abraham Lincoln but they can be seen as causes of our modern federal system.

[hosepipe]

[ If democracy was the road to communism then how come the FIRST thing the commies did when they SEIZED power was ABOLISH democratic elections? ]

Your WRONG the commies DO NOT abolish elections.. they abolish the other partys..
Russia always had elections.. as do the Chinese..

The patina of democracy is still kept in any democratic country..
As every democracy does as well keeping the patina of fair elections..
And it all seems quite fair to “democrats”.. who do not think too deeply about it..

You know............. like YOU do..

[nathanbedford]

Good God man is it necessary to articulate to you the difference between human bondage and legal obligation?

Is it necessary to articulate the difference between committing a crime and being incarcerated for that and being incarcerated for your human condition?

Is it necessary to articulate the difference between a choice one has to pay a tax and the lack of choice one has when he is a slave?

Is it necessary to articulate the difference between one who chooses to work and create the conditions which obligate one to pay a tax and those who have no choice but must work because they are slaves without any recompense whatsoever?

Is it necessary to articulate the difference between those in a representative democracy who can vote their taxes in or out and slaves who have no vote concerning their freedom or the conditions of their servitude?

Remember, we did not wage a war against taxation, we waged a war against taxation without representation.

[hedgetrimmer]

The Continental magazine of 1862 ran an article describing how the ‘free traders’ of the day fomented the American Civil War.

‘free trade’ is causing a similar division in the citizens of this country today.

I’d say there is more than one reason this election looks like 1860.

[central_va]

It's to bad that the author of this almost good piece has so many of his "facts" wrong.

Then, of course, the question was can a country “conceived in liberty’, in Lincoln’s words, tolerate slavery.

Clearly he is mixing up things up, the reason for the war was states rights, slavery was the occasion not the cause. The Revolutionary war wasn't about tea and taxes.

Lincoln rejected submitting slavery to the vote, arguing that there are first and inviolable principles of right and wrong on which this nation stands and which cannot be separated from any issue, including considerations of growth and expansion.

More reconstructed history: Lincoln opposed slavery in the territories because he thought the new territories need to be all white. Lincoln was a racist to the nth degree.

[central_va]

No. I don’t. I think things would have been much better if he had lived. If for no other reason than he would have had to have cleaned up his own mess. Andrew Johnson would have never been President. And rather than endure this sort demigod mystique we’ve had to ever since as a result of his assassination, we would have a more objective writing of history.

I agree with everything you just posted. Nice handling of the stock troll question too.

[af_vet_rr]

Palin made comments to Hannity on FoxNews about a 3rd party threat if the GOP don’t come around to Tea Party principles but instead continue to do things as usual.

I have not seen anything to indicate that the GOP is going to engage in anything but business as usual. I see a GOP that signed off on the PATRIOT Act AGAIN, I see Boner going out to play golf with Obama and probably share a few tears about those mean old Conservatives, etc.

Unless we start booting Republicans out in the primaries, I see no indication that anything will change. Many of the same people who supported Bush over the PATRIOT Act and No Child Left Behind are still in Congress.

We are constantly told that a liberal with an (R) next to their name is still preferable to a liberal with a (D) next to their name and that we should automatically support them, even though a liberal with an (R) next to their name is still a liberal and is ultimately out to screw us over. The moderates running the GOP are doing everything they can to keep their power.

I don't agree with Palin on a lot of things, but she's right here. The GOP shows no signs of moving to the right, and a lot of us are going to stop paying attention to the letter next to somebody's name and start paying more attention to what a candidate or politician actually believes in and actually does.

For me, whether or not somebody is a Conservative is more important than the letter next to their name. A liberal with an (R) next to their name is still going to lead us down the road to socialism, they'll just do it a little bit slower than a liberal with a (D) next to their name.

[af_vet_rr]

I respectfully disagree with your point regarding the democrats and gop. The d’s have, as you indicate, become the party of race-baiters and socialists. The gop, however, has had almost as much of a hand in the fiscal destruction of the republic as their so-called opposition.

Let us not forget that the mother of all bailouts, TARP, was initiated not under the current maladministration but under that of President Bush. This was not just the camel’s nose but the whole camel in the tent.

Let us also not forget that things like the PATRIOT Act and No Child Left Behind, both of which helped increase the power and reach of the federal government, were implemented under the administration of President Bush and supported then and now by many Republicans.

[Lazamataz]

See my tagline.

[donmeaker]

Hard core southerners asserted that northern states didn’t have the right to ban slavery. They claimed the right under Dred Scott to take their slaves to free states, and have the government help them keep their ‘PROPERTY’ enslaved.

[SVTCobra03]

“Somewhere among us there is the man for the time and we desperately need him to step forward. Is it Paul Ryan? Is it Gov. Perry? Could it be Sarah Palin?”

Only Allen West meets your criteria and he isn’t running. Secession may be the only answer.

[af_vet_rr]

I do not believe that Lincoln caused the war.

I agree with you. The Civil war was going to happen, it was just a matter of time. We had already had one civil war in the late 1700s over the issues of freedom. The ingredients were there. You had a group of hardcore Christians angry that other Christians are enslaved or who think that man was created in the image of God and that to enslave him is a sin. Toss in a bunch of immigrants who felt threatened over having to compete with slave labor, and don't forget that both groups turned out to vote in large numbers, and things are not going to end well. It could have happened a decade earlier it could have happened a decade later, but it was going to happen.

Not saying Lincoln handled it the best or not, but it was going to happen.

I do not thing the GOP can unify behind a single candidate because their division is over fundamentals.

I also agree with this. Conservatives are finally starting to unify and for the first time, many are starting to realize that the moderates in the GOP are not going to give us what we want. They try to buy us off with half-measures, and that worked in the past, but things are too critical now. The federal government keeps growing in power and size and it's been helped along by moderate Republicans.

[af_vet_rr]

Right. The fact that we're butchering thousands of little babies every day in this country is far worse than the wicked, tyrannical practice of slavery.

Amen. Every time somebody says we are headed for another civil war, I have to laugh. If we aren't willing to have a civil war over the loss of 50 million innocent babies since the 1970s, we aren't willing to have another civil war, period. People will complain and go right back to watching their stupid reality and housewife and American Idols shows.

[tbw2]

It’s the “one person, one vote, one time” system.

[driftdiver]