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Electric cars may not be so green after all, says British study (another lib myth down the tubes)
The Australian ^ | 06/10/11 | Ben Webster

Posted on 06/13/2011 12:13:38 PM PDT by nhwingut

ELECTRIC cars could produce higher emissions over their lifetimes than petrol equivalents because of the energy consumed in making their batteries, a study has found.

An electric car owner would have to drive at least 129,000km before producing a net saving in CO2. Many electric cars will not travel that far in their lifetime because they typically have a range of less than 145km on a single charge and are unsuitable for long trips. Even those driven 160,000km would save only about a tonne of CO2 over their lifetimes.

The British study, which is the first analysis of the full lifetime emissions of electric cars covering manufacturing, driving and disposal, undermines the case for tackling climate change by the rapid introduction of electric cars.

(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.com.au ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alternative; cars; electric; electriccars; electricvehicles; energy; environment; globalwarming; green; greencars; greenvehicles; morons

1 posted on 06/13/2011 12:13:44 PM PDT by nhwingut
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To: nhwingut

Gee what a shocker, isn’t that what we’ve been saying to these nutjobs forever?

What idiots.


2 posted on 06/13/2011 12:15:54 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: nhwingut

I’ve been waiting for someone to bring up batteries. Not only do you have to make the chemically nasty things, but you have to dispose of them. Can you imagine how many there would be to dispose of if everyone drove electric cars?


3 posted on 06/13/2011 12:16:36 PM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: Secret Agent Man

I mean there was an article a long time ago saying the carbon footprint to make a prius was far larger than what it took to make a hummer (when we made them). Because of the battery.


4 posted on 06/13/2011 12:17:13 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: nhwingut

The person that buys an electric car DOES NOT want to hear this.

The reason he buys the car is to feel good about himself for “doing something to save the erf”.


5 posted on 06/13/2011 12:18:09 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: nhwingut
I saw an add yesterday that showed people using every little machine you could think of, and every little machine was noisy and spewing noxious gases. Eventually, the announcer said, "Imagine if everything ran on gas." And then we saw some smug Liberal plugging in his car -- no gasoline for him!!

I turned to my wife and said, "Running on coal is sooooooo much better."

6 posted on 06/13/2011 12:18:21 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: nhwingut

The assumption here is that CO2 is a pollutant, which of course it is not. Even worse though, the concept of green implies something good for plant life, but plant life loves co2, so in reality, anything that produces co2, and especially if it produces lots of it, should be considered green.


7 posted on 06/13/2011 12:18:28 PM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: nhwingut

Boy, this is a real stunner of a study, ay?

So, one has to drive nearly 80-thousand-miles before it makes any appreciable difference in emissions.

Golly, who’d thunk it?


8 posted on 06/13/2011 12:18:40 PM PDT by RexBeach (Mr. Obama can't count.)
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To: RexBeach

....then it is time for a new battery, so that resets the clock, or totals the car. Not green.


9 posted on 06/13/2011 12:21:24 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: nhwingut
An electric car owner would have to drive at least 129,000km before producing a net saving in CO2.

I suspect it is far FAR greater than that. I never see anyone take into account the amount of energy that a battery looses while just sitting. This is something NO battery can overcome, no matter how well it's insulated.
10 posted on 06/13/2011 12:23:10 PM PDT by rottndog (Be Prepared for what's coming AFTER America....)
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To: MrB
The reason he buys the car is to feel good about himself for “doing something to save the erf”.

There was an episode called Smug Alert on South Park that dealt with these electric car nazis -- and how it made them feel better. It was hysterical.


11 posted on 06/13/2011 12:25:17 PM PDT by nhwingut (Palin '12... Accept No Other)
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To: nhwingut

I bought my super-low emission Honda Hybrid because I commute 1000 miles a week and it gets 47 mpg. Just pure naked greed on my part. p.s. I used the $4500 clunker deal to allay the cost.


12 posted on 06/13/2011 12:25:56 PM PDT by oncebitten (Re: Obama: "I could carve a better man out of a banana." T. Roosevelt)
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To: nhwingut

13 posted on 06/13/2011 12:28:09 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: nhwingut

Wake me up when the liberal geniuses figure out that the electrical plug of the car eventually connects to some dirty fossil fuel power plant.


14 posted on 06/13/2011 12:29:04 PM PDT by avacado
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To: Secret Agent Man

That was actually from The Recorder, a student newspaper at Central Connecticut State University.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1904448/posts


15 posted on 06/13/2011 12:33:38 PM PDT by matt04
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To: nhwingut

bkmk


16 posted on 06/13/2011 12:36:23 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: nhwingut

This British study is horse manure. Even if not for the batteries, unless you charge it with solar/hydro/wind/geothermal/atomic, you have to burn fuel. Most of our electricity comes from coal, and a car engine is more efficient than a steam turbine.


17 posted on 06/13/2011 12:37:22 PM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: HerrBlucher

HB,

Good to know that many of my friends here at FR understand that CO2 is moist plant food.

Now if we could just overcome the fact that the average IQ is 100...

Too many people just don’t understand the most simple science.


18 posted on 06/13/2011 12:37:22 PM PDT by TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed (Yahuah Yahusha)
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To: nhwingut

Wondering if they account for the 50% or more coal source of the electricity. Checking...


19 posted on 06/13/2011 12:44:28 PM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed
Now if we could just overcome the fact that the average IQ is 100...

Standard average IQ is 100 by definition................

20 posted on 06/13/2011 12:45:13 PM PDT by Red Badger (Nothing is a 'right' if someone has to give it to you................)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Except the EPA is going to regulate coal out of existence.

Then what?

I’ve been to Africa...almost everyone was walking. That must be what Michelle wants for us. Walking and not enough to eat. And having to walk miles everyday just to get water. Then Obama won’t have to apologize for us anymore.


21 posted on 06/13/2011 12:45:47 PM PDT by Aria ( "If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.")
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To: RexBeach

And how many miles can you get out of a hybrid before the battery fails?

Unlike a traditional car battery, witch can be replaced between $100-200 in just minutes, the labor and parts needed to remove and replace hybrid batteries in a high mileage car must be in the thousands. At that point, replacing the car seems like a much more likely scenario.


22 posted on 06/13/2011 12:45:47 PM PDT by matt04
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed

What we need is more people on the ‘right side’ of the bell curve instead of the ‘left’..................


24 posted on 06/13/2011 12:47:58 PM PDT by Red Badger (Nothing is a 'right' if someone has to give it to you................)
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To: Clara Lou

Disposal of worn out batteries for these cars is a hidden cost that will be dumped on society as the battery packs wear out.

Wait until thousands of tons of batteries hit the recyclers. The volume will dwarf a system that today is geared up to handle regular car batteries that are miniscule in comparison.

These batteries are full of acids and caustic mixtures and can’t just be split open at the junk yard to mine the lead and other metals.

Of course when it does happen, the disposal cost and pollution from these batteries will be “unexpected”.


25 posted on 06/13/2011 12:56:20 PM PDT by Iron Munro (“Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.” Sun Tzu)
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To: nhwingut

You mean...energy gets consumed to generate electricity?! But...but...we don’t see the combustion, so it doesn’t exist! Quick! Somebody must inform der Fuhrer (cut to You-tube spoof).


26 posted on 06/13/2011 1:02:36 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Iron Munro
IMHO, you're mostly right.

Where you might be wrong, is in underestimating the ability of the private sector to respond to a new revenue source. Unless government steps in to thwart them, battery recyclers will be able to match the demand. Especially considering the cost of lithium.

Of course, once government regulators (prodded by the usual enviro-fascists) get into the act; battery recyclers will be too tied up in red tape to move. Then, your scenario would be 100% correct.

27 posted on 06/13/2011 1:06:18 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: nhwingut; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; calcowgirl; Gilbo_3; NFHale; ..
I dont care if it's really green or not, what is important is that my liberal friends think it is and I will be OK in their eyes.

Classic SP Reference : Kyle's father Gerald buys a new hybrid car (based on the Toyota Prius) and drives it all over town to show it off and gain attention. He soon decides that his commitment is not enough and starts an unwelcome campaign to convert the other townspeople to environmentally friendly vehicles. After alienating all of his friends with his preachy attitude, Randy tells Gerald that he's become so smug that he loves the smell of his own farts. After deciding he cannot live among such “backward and unsophisticated” people, Gerald decides to move his family to San Francisco.
Stan is horrified that his best friend is leaving, and tries to convince Gerald to change his mind, but Mr. Broflovski says he will not be returning until everyone feels the same way as he does about the environment

Smug Alert!(SouthPark Episode 141) !

28 posted on 06/13/2011 1:06:18 PM PDT by sickoflibs (If you pay zero Federal income taxes, don't say you are paying your 'fair share')
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To: Secret Agent Man
Gee what a shocker, isn’t that what we’ve been saying to these nutjobs forever?

I don't know about forever, but I do recall discussing this aspect of the problem while in college.

Twenty years ago!

29 posted on 06/13/2011 1:07:58 PM PDT by MAexile (Bats left, votes right)
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To: Clara Lou

Yep. The batteries can join the mercury light bulbs and create more pollution. Just another government solution where the cure is worse than the disease.


30 posted on 06/13/2011 1:08:14 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: MrB
The reason he buys the car is to feel good about himself for “doing something to save the erf”.

I'd like one simply because the electricity would be much cheaper than gas for my fairly short, in-city commutes and errands. At a price such as $25K for the Nissan Leaf it pretty much works out. A Honda Civic is cheaper, but gas price would offset that over several years. However, that Honda could easily last me 200K miles, which puts a dent in the calculations since there's no way the Leaf's battery will. I'm still going to wait a bit on an electric car, but I like the concept.

31 posted on 06/13/2011 1:21:15 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: nhwingut
do I really have to say it???

32 posted on 06/13/2011 1:25:50 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: nhwingut

So when our electrical prices “skyrocket” per Dear Leader, electric cars will be more expensive to use than gas cars. The next step will be mandated, overpriced, subsidized public transportation, and then a bicycle tax. It’s a brave new world, folks. Amerika is becoming a 3rd world country by design.


33 posted on 06/13/2011 1:31:22 PM PDT by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all......)
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To: nhwingut
Get ready for electricity prices to “necessarily skyrocket" (Bills go up as much as 60% by 2014)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2733681/posts

[Snap!]


34 posted on 06/13/2011 1:41:10 PM PDT by familyop ("Dry land is not just our destination, it is our destiny!" --"Deacon," "Waterworld")
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To: Clara Lou
I’ve been waiting for someone to bring up batteries. Not only do you have to make the chemically nasty things, but you have to dispose of them. Can you imagine how many there would be to dispose of if everyone drove electric cars?

Not only that. You also have the issue of getting the raw materials for the batteries. The US does not have large reserves of lithium and flake graphite needed to manufacture these batteries. You know who does? China. So we would be changing from a dependence on foreign oil to a dependence on foreign minerals. The difference is we could vastly reduce our dependence on foreign oil by developing our own resources - we could not reduce a dependence on foreign minerals needed for the batteries, as we do not have any significant reserves to develop.

35 posted on 06/13/2011 1:42:12 PM PDT by CA Conservative
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To: nhwingut
People talk about the electric cars having a range of 145km between charges.

Did anyone calculate the reduction in range the first time you have to heat or cool the vehicle?

Trust me, when the outside temperature is -40 F before you add wind chill, a significant factor in a metal box, you are going to need some form of heat. As it is proven every winter in the northern tier of states using a candle for light and heat can have lethal side affects.

Trust me again, when the outside temperate is +100 F before you consider the heat index, you going to want some way of cooling the air. otherwise, the metal box you are trying to travel in turns into a slow oven.

Bottom line - the advertised 145km range of an electric vehicle assumes you are not using any other system that needs electrical power to function. You have a choice - getting home or surviving the trip. Which one do you chose?

36 posted on 06/13/2011 1:52:40 PM PDT by Nip (TANSTAAFL)
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To: Nip
Did anyone calculate the reduction in range the first time you have to heat or cool the vehicle?

Yes. Nissan states 100 miles for the leaf, but also gives scenarios between about 60 and 150 miles for specific use cases, some of which include heavy use of heat and A/C. IIRC, the 60 mile one gave the scenario of creeping traffic jam driving in sub-freezing temperatures.

Trust me, when the outside temperature is -40 F before you add wind chill, a significant factor in a metal box, you are going to need some form of heat.

Even more than for you, you need that heat for the batteries, which will be basically dead at that temperature. One use case Nissan did not give was estimated miles when using the optional battery heater. Or maybe they did and I didn't notice since I'd never need it.

37 posted on 06/13/2011 2:32:54 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: sickoflibs

” I dont care if it’s really green or not, what is important is that my liberal friends think it is and I will be OK in their eyes. “

No sh....I mean, devoid of excrement.


38 posted on 06/13/2011 5:08:40 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: nhwingut

The Greens are destroyers. The are destroying wealth, the country and worst of all they are destroying common sense.

Al Gore the destroyer.


39 posted on 06/13/2011 5:50:36 PM PDT by ully2 (ully)
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To: sickoflibs; fieldmarshaldj

Best part was that everyone in SF did like the smell of their own farts. ;-p


40 posted on 06/14/2011 6:14:43 AM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: nhwingut

Sorry according to an article by the guys at www.TheEV.biz

http://theev.biz/green-living-2/what-electric-cars-not-so-green-after-all/

several statements in an article published in The Australian (June 10, 2011) featuring the headline “Electric cars may not be so green after all, says British study” and the referenced study itself contain many facts that are highly suspect and incorrect about Electric Cars.


41 posted on 06/28/2011 9:09:05 PM PDT by luckymon88 (Austraian newspaper article and British EV study full of holes)
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