Space program was our biggest bridge to nowhere(Ignorance Alert)

The Examiner ^ | July 1, 2011 | Gene Healy

[CharlyFord]

Friday marked the space shuttle's swan song, as the Atlantis lifted off from the Kennedy Space Center for the program's 135th and final flight.

It was President George W. Bush who announced the shuttle's retirement with his 2004 "Vision for Space Exploration," which included a moon base and "human missions to Mars and to worlds beyond." But it was President Obama who put the kibosh on that vision, canceling the moon project and leaving "worlds beyond" in doubt.

"We are retiring the shuttle in favor of nothing," Michael Griffin, Bush's NASA administrator, wailed to the Washington Post recently.

Here, as usual, "nothing" gets a bad rap. I'll be "in favor of nothing" until the advocates of federally funded spaceflight can come up with an argument for it that doesn't make me spray coffee out my nose.

NASA's Griffin failed that test in 2005, when he gave an interview to the Washington Post insisting it was essential that "Western values" accompany those who eventually "colonize the solar system," because "we know the kind of society we would get if you, for example, carry Soviet values. That means you want a gulag on Mars. Is that what you're looking for?"

Well ... is it, punk?

Outside of avoiding the hypothetical horror of Martian gulags, what does the ordinary taxpayer get from the space program?

Not much, says Robin Hanson, a George Mason University economist and research associate at Oxford's Future of Humanity Institute: The benefits are "mostly like the pyramids -- national prestige and being part of history."

[CharlyFord]

Ignorance is bliss. This clown has no clue what advancements in science and engineering the U.S. space programs have provided.

One of the important measures of a culture is it's scientific and engineering advancements. We've had the 'Stone Age', the 'Iron Age', and now the 'Space Age'. This clown would be happy if the U.S. was still in the 'Iron Age' while the rest of the world advanced.

It looks like Mr. Healy would rather spend his money on dope that contribute to the 'Space Age'. Maybe he would be happier living somewhere where they don't throw their money away on technological advancements, like Zimbabwe maybe.

[tanuki]

So what did this clown write this drivel on? A Selectronic?

[a fool in paradise]

I wonder if the luddite who wrote this has a cellphone, uses GPS technology, or listens to sirius radio.

[FlingWingFlyer]

Just another ignorant idiot who just can’t seem to focus. The boy would be surprised to learn what the space program has done to make our lives better. But he can Google it himself. I’m not going to do his job for him.

[cripplecreek]

Pure genius to cede the high ground. [/sarc]

[a fool in paradise]

This has been called the second assassination of JFK, and once again a liberal has pulled the trigger.

[iowamark]

You are so correct. Federal Government spending drives all progress!

I am sure that you agree that we should fully fund Obama’s high speed rail program, wind turbine, and electric car programs as well!

[a fool in paradise]

What benefit does the average taxpayer get from a research associate at Oxford’s Future of Humanity Institute?

[Cvengr]

Indubitably typed by an author on a microcomputer, or texting on his cell phone, while navigating to work by GPS and drinking coffee out of a styrofoam cup after he microwaved a dehydrated meal.

[GAB-1955]

We haven't given up the high ground. SpaceX will be flying by next year.

[Cvengr]

...while listening to XM Radio over a satellite dish cable TV connection....after surfing the Internet for a Satellite Radar Image of a possible hurricane brewing in the Gulf,....

[dhs12345]

Heck, just about every electronic device we use today benefited from Space and the Military.

[Alberta's Child]

I can't argue with the author's logic. Government-funded space exploration has been a very expensive undertaking, and his point is that most people would like to see the private sector pursue this sort of thing.

Even more specific than the general idea of space travel, I'd say the space shuttle has probably been a terrible investment by any measure.

[a fool in paradise]

We wouldn’t even HAVE hurricanes if it wasn’t for US military missile tests under the guise of a space program... < /greenie weenie cheese and whine >

[a fool in paradise]

The trillions of dollars spent in the war on poverty have been a failure at everything except keeping dinosaur racist democrats in DC for decades.

[SatinDoll]

He’s getting a well deserved thrashing in the Examiner’s comments.

But he has a point when it comes to who pays.

There is money, lots of it, to be made in space.

Mining and manufacturing in space is the way of the future.

For environmental reasons as well as technological reasons, it is doable right now, and with present technology.

I really hate to think the Chinese will beat us to this. It is the Third Industrial Revolution and Americans should be on the frontier, leading the way.

One average-sized near Earth asteroid rich in platinum group metals (PGMs, or PeGgyMays) is equal to the entire annual gross product of the world!

We could pay off our national debts very quickly and cause an industrial and technological boom, all at the same time.

The initial start-up will be expensive because so much would have to brought up from Earth. But once a mining/smelting combine is built and materials begin to be delivered to orbiting robotic smelting and manufacturing complexes, the material supply chain starts in earnest and will expand to accommodate demand. It will pay for itself many times over.

That has always been the problem with space exploration: how to make it pay for itself.

I envision a station on the Moon, using a mag-lev launcher utilizing solar power to move cargo between the base and orbiting stations. The U.S.Navy uses rail guns to launch missiles; so can a Moon station launch cargo vessels using one that is larger.

There are materials that can be created in the zero gravity vacuum of space which could revolutionize electronics.

Earth gravity affects the crystal formation when refining metals; this will not occur in space. Very thin panels can be manufactured, as well as metal whiskers one molecule in diameter.

Asteroids contain iron and nickel as well as PeGgyMays. It will be possible to build a Moon station with materials from asteroids and there is sufficient water on the Moon for a group to survive. Energy from the Sun or nuclear can make the whole operation possible. Due to conditions on the Moon’s surface I believe the station will be mostly underground.

Today we have the technology to exploit space without having to maintain human colonies. Drones have proven that, and robotic manufacturing is far more sophisticated than in the past.

I believe it is something the U.S. should be doing.
Its all a question who spreads out into the frontier of space takes advantage of its potential.

“We can’t afford it...” is true, as the nation is presently run by crazed socialists!

Once the dollar is no longer the international reserve currency the SHTF - assuredly.

But the Muslim fools who caused 9/11 expected the U.S.A. to crumble. We did not oblige them by doing so.

Everyone seems to underate us. Europeans never expected the U.S. to make it after the Civil War, but we fought a war with Spain, then with China, then WWI and came out stronger than ever.

During the Depression we were hit with a debilitating environmental catastrophe causing a “dust bowl” in the Midwest, and all while paying very high taxes. Then came the attack on Pearl Harbor and WWII. Still, we came out stronger.

As you probably guess, I don’t see this as necessarily a bad situation but an opportunity.

We should chuck the United Nations off our shores, for starters, and the IMF after them. Hey, they won’t need our dollars anymore, now will they?

I do not support isolationism, but I know this nation can be energy independent.

I know we can feed ourselves and export any leftovers.
I know we have technological know-how. Hell, that’s why the Chinese are always stealing ideas from us!

Are there people who will riot? Sure, but they’re probably the same folks who riot after football and basketball games. So what!

Right now we need some time to get ourselves reorganized along Constitutional constructs and change to a tax system, either Flat or Fair, which will generate more jobs and revenue.

We must bring our military home from policing the rest of the world. I’m sure you’ve noticed the rest of the world really doesn’t appreciate our efforts.

Screw ‘em.

We can launch the Third Industrial Revolution without the rest of the world. We’ve had the technology for thirty years. Then laugh hysterically watching other nations try to catch up from their failed experiment in the socialist utopia known as ‘Globalism’.”

Five hundred years ago the most sophisticated and powerful political players in the world were the Ottomans (in modern Turkey) and the Chinese (Ming: 1368-1644). No one living then would have expected the 20th century to be industrially developed and dominated by what was then a rustic Europe and a wilderness in North America.

And yes, the market for space fabricated parts would be Earth, at first.

No, I do not believe it is fanciful thinking. The my first paragraph above demonstrates that it is not.

And private investment, just as it was in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries in North America, will be funding this endeavor. The promise of fantastic monetary return and the thrill of risk will be the driving impetus, just as it always has been in the past.

As you can tell, I’m kind of enthusiastic about this subject!

[bvw]

Name them then.

[cripplecreek]

The problem with the private sector is the fact that they don't want to risk the money when any attempts at industrial space might be illegal.

The Outer Space Treaty represents the basic legal framework of international space law. Among its principles, it bars States Parties to the Treaty from placing nuclear weapons or any other weapons of mass destruction in orbit of Earth, installing them on the Moon or any other celestial body, or to otherwise station them in outer space. It exclusively limits the use of the Moon and other celestial bodies to peaceful purposes and expressly prohibits their use for testing weapons of any kind, conducting military maneuvers, or establishing military bases, installations, and fortifications (Art.IV). However, the Treaty does not prohibit the placement of conventional weapons in orbit. The treaty also states that the exploration of outer space shall be done to benefit all countries and shall be free for exploration and use by all States.

The treaty explicitly forbids any government from claiming a celestial resource such as the Moon or a planet, since they are the Common heritage of mankind. Art. II of the Treaty states that "outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means". However, the State that launches a space object retains jurisdiction and control over that object. The State is also liable for damages caused by their space object and must avoid contaminating space and celestial bodies.

Technically private industry should be outside this treaty but then again, maybe not.

It’s time to rethink international space law

The res communis doctrine resounds most prominently when dealing with property ownership rights in outer space. The Outer Space Treaty not only forbids claiming of territory by nations, but its child, the Moon Treaty, attempts to extend that prohibition to private legal entities also. Although the United States is not a signatory to the Moon Treaty, it has not taken open actions to actually refute its legal viability. The result is that the Moon Treaty and its res communis doctrine has slowly crept into the realm of accepted international law.

Business generally acts according to current law and not what the law might be sometime down the road.

'What prudent merchant will hazard his fortunes in any new branch of commerce when he knows not that his plans may be rendered unlawful before they can be executed?'

-James Monroe

[muir_redwoods]

" I'll be "in favor of nothing" until the advocates of federally funded spaceflight can come up with an argument for it that doesn't make me spray coffee out my nose."

Attention, Mr. Healy, no one needs to explain anything to you nor convince you of anything. You are an ignorant nobody with unfounded delusions of adequacy.

Be quiet and stop convincing everyone of what a fool you are.

[Graybeard58]

microwaved a dehydrated meal.

The space program has provided many advancements but microwave and dehydrated food precedes the space program by a good number of years.