Posted on 07/17/2011 11:09:54 AM PDT by Bigtigermike
I used “extremely limited release” to avoid the argument over a “test market” and “limited release”.
I think “limited release” would apply to the movie; “limited release” is also used when they drop a movie in New York and Los Angeles before the Academy awards, for example. I just don’t want to get into that argument.
I don’t know if there is a number of theaters that defines “limited release”, although the term “wide release” is defined as 600 or more theatres. By that definition, I would call “10” an extremely limited release, relative to say the 300 theaters in the limited release of “Atlas Shrugged”.
What they are doing I think is called a “Platform release” — you put out a movie in a few theaters, and then roll it out after it gets good word-of-mouth from the first showings. It is important, for this to work, that the per-theater numbers be big, because they are expected to be larger than those of most general-release movies.
They also like to see a large uptick in the saturday numbers from the friday numbers. For example, the movie “Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara” made $222,000 on friday in 88 theatres, for a $2522/screen number. But Saturday they made an additional $598,000, for $6500/screen (I think they added 4 screens) — a 252% increase.
Undefeated had $28,700 friday, and $37,000 saturday, an increase of 29%.
So I don’t know if “The Undefeated” has actually done “well”, if they roll it out to more theaters over the next month then we will know it achieved the desired results. Hopefully the numbers won’t drop off today.
I suspect that most Freepers agree with us.
Comes a point where a person has exhausted all of their reasonable arguments against any particular candidate, and thereafter, all they can do is either continue to repeat those arguments ad nauseum, or go into attack mode.
The other alternative, is to simply grant people the simple right to support who they will, and go about the business of supporting the candidate of your choice.
Option three is my chosen modus operandi.
Apparently, some people in this community choose option two, which in my mind, is baffling and counter-productive. It's also wearisome to many regulars, and pollutes the forum.
It did well as a limited release. It then failed on wider release. It was released in 300 theaters, which I would not call “a few”, but your definition may vary.
$5640 for 300 theaters was a very good limited release; right now “The Undefeated” is at $6570 in only 10 theaters, although it has another day to go.
This was my point in referencing “Atlas Shrugged” — it’s too early to know if “The Undefeated” will do well. One weekend of a 10-theater release does not tell you how it will do over the next month.
Were there theaters where “The Undefeated” was on more than one screen?
That worked out real well for FR's pissant.
“So I don’t know if “The Undefeated” has actually done “well””
If you don’t know, you don’t understand the movie business.
Nobody knows if ‘The Undefeated’ will do well in wide release. But to assert anything other than this picture succeeded wildly at the box office this weekend is just Baghdad Bob insisting that the American troops are on the run.
You also asserted “Atlas Shrugged” was a success. I posted the numbers showing it was not. You have no credibility on this topic.
Hang in there, perfect_rovian_storm!
They are using the good box office numbers to show how strong her support is; they used the various blog sites to advertise and gin up support for the movie. Of course, we WANT to see the movie; But we want to see it this weekend, because that shows support and helps get the movie into more theaters.
It wasn’t in any theaters in my area, or I’m sure we would have arranged to get people there.
It looks like you two just started posting your stuff without even reading the article.
Let’s try this one more time, since you seem to be arguing that “The Undefeated” is a success based on 2 days of a 3-day weekend, and also arguing that Atlas Shrugged was a failure when it did very well on it’s first full weekend, in a lot more theaters than “The Undefeated”.
I do actaully understand the movie business, but you don’t have to understand the movie business to know that we don’t have the full weekend numbers yet, and that “The Undefeated” as of Saturday was not a clear winner. There’s a non-name indie flick out this same weekend that is in more theaters than “The Undefeated”, had limited advertising, and is soundly beating “The Undefeated” at this point.
“The Undefeated” had an excellent Friday night. The Saturday numbers were good, but not great — as I pointed out in another thread, they only increased 29% over Friday, while the other big limited release film increased by 252% from it’s friday numbers.
After we have the sunday numbers, we’ll know how well it did relative to the other limited releases from this weekend. IT was a tough weekend for any movie, with Harry Potter coming out.
Atlas Shrugged had a successful first weekend. We were happy here at FR with the numbers; it had good per-screen numbers for it’s 300-screen release. It was a perfectly valid comparison to the numbers for the first weekend of “The Undefeated”, when you adjust for number of theaters.
What you posted was numbers showing how Atlas Shrugged had a good opening weekend in limited release, but failed on wider release.
Since I was addressing the 1st weekend comparison, you are simply wrong to suggest that I was incorrect. In fact, my entire point was that Atlas Shrugged did well in it’s limited release, and then fell off, and we need to wait a month or two to see whether “The Undefeated” suffers the same fate.
So oddly, you made my point while mistakenly arguing that I had no idea what I was talking about. So I guess I should thank you — apparently some people didn’t know that “Atlas Shrugged” fell off later, and I had assumed everybody knew that and would understand the comparison.
Yours is a reasonable question (with a little anger tossed in, but that is understandable).
It is because I find the blind spot for some Gov. Palin supporters to be problematic for Conservatives in general, and, IMHO, supporters of Gov. Palin.
If I can get 1 or 2 FReepers to pause and consider the POTENTIAL realities of Gov. Palin’s current position and activities, be it her movie, her possibilities of running and/or her messing with the MSM, then that I have accomplished my objective.
I am not the enemy — I am the Devil’s Advocate at worst.
I really think I am doing good here — even for supporters of Gov. Palin.
I have grave concerns about what her candidacy may mean, but since I can no longer express them, at least I can help people keep their eyes clear.
Thanks for taking it down a notch and asking instead of just reacting. And I do suggest you review the responses to my posts and ask whether you would support a candidate whose supporters merely yell down anyone who asks questions.
I think that sums things up.
Good morrow to all of you.
According to the article, there was only ONE theater which put the film on two screens at a time, for ONE showing. FreeReign was suggesting, incorrectly I believe, that the per-screen numbers would be lower than my numbers because he thought my numbers were per-theater numbers, and not per-screen numbers.
I was trying to find out if he had any evidence that theaters had the movie on multiple screens, because if they didn’t, the per-theater and per-screen numbers would be the same anyway, and we wouldn’t have the argument. I am ignoring the one dual-screen showing, as it was a single instance, and not a screen available all the time (if you said “11 screens” you’d skew the numbers).
I have no idea why, based on a response to a person who seemed to confuse theaters with screens, you chose to claim that I hadn’t read the article, when in fact I’ve read this article, the previous article, and found two other articles that I used to cross-check my numbers and get further information.
I was simply trying a polite way of continuing the conversation with a freeper, rather than your typical response.
A 29% percent increase Saturday-over-Friday is cause for celebration. That another indy release is also doing well in no way vitiates that.
No entertainment industry professional will back your assertion that ‘The Undefeated’ didn’t do well this weekend, or that it’s too soon to know, or whatever the hell it is you’re trying peddle here.
It did well enough to be released wider. And it will be. I guess the distributor and AMC don’t agree with you.
Ten theaters, and yes, one of them did use more than one screen, it was in the article.
This great success does not help Mitt Romney and his supporters at all.
Blind spot? Oh, you mean like the "blind spots" some conservatives had about Reagan, who also had his all-too-human warts?
Here we have someone finally stepping up the the plate in national politics, who comes about as close to a dream candidate as any of us have seen in a generation, and you'd prefer that we take a pass on her because she's got a wart or two?
That logic fails, and is hereby dismissed as a pathetically weak excuse on your part, for your attacks on this rare patriot.
If I can get 1 or 2 FReepers to pause and consider the POTENTIAL realities of Gov. Palin’s current position and activities, be it her movie, her possibilities of running and/or her messing with the MSM, then that I have accomplished my objective.
What potential realities would you have us consider, pray tell?
Her current position? She's more well-positioned to boot Bammy from the Oval Office, than any other candidate in (or out) of the race. She's also the de facto leader of the Tea Party movement.
Her activities? She led the charge in the 2010 midterms, to elect a virtual tsunami of Republicans to office across the country.
She's knocked the Obama White House off point over and over again with her tweets and published articles.
She's met with leaders of allied countries abroad, forging bonds that should be the domain of our president (except he's voting 'present' as usual).
She published an account of her life and career in politics that went to number one on the NY Times best seller list.
She's spoken to large groups of conservative activists at many organized functions.
She's made speeches at Tea Party events, the big Glenn Beck shindig in Washington, and in Wisconsin, in support of Governor Walker's efforts to end collective bargaining for public unions.
She also found time to film a series about her home state of Alaska, and has worked as a conservative commentator for Fox.
Don't forget her bus tour and Rolling Thunder.
Her movie? What movie? Palin hasn't made a movie. Steven Bannon made a movie about her life, but she had nothing to do with that.
Her possibilities of running? What of it? Are you perhaps referring to the fact that she's chosen not to jump into the race early, and be a part of the demolition derby we're watching?
Her messing with the MSM? You say that like it's a bad thing. You think maybe she should forgive and forget, after what they've tried to do to her and her family these last three years? Do you not realize that the press hasn't attacking Sarah Palin -- they've been attacking every good and decent thing about you and I, and every other patriot American?
...then that I have accomplished my objective.
And what objective would that be? To knock down one of this nation's most promising leaders, because (gasp!) she has a couple of warts?
Because of high-ticket sales, the Phoenix theater put 'The Undefeated' on two screens during one showing to accommodate demand,Assuming you actually want the per-screen numbers to look good, you should understand that having a single showing on a second screen does not get counted as having another screen; if it did, it would skew the numbers down artificially.
The article also said that they moved some of the showings to bigger screens to handle more people.
My original post noted that the numbers from the article in this thread included Saturday, which is why they were different than the friday-only numbers I posted.
Another freeper suggested that one of the numbers was for theaters, rather than screens, as if that would make a difference. For this movie, showing on one screen per theater (except for the one specific instance for a single showing), the per-theater and per-screen numbers would be the same. The only way they'd be different would be if the theaters were showing the movie on multiple screens.
But none of the numbers WERE per-theater, they were per-screen, or total box office (which you then divide by the number of screens to get per-screen).
It's a shame we can't have a simple discussion of the actual numbers, without people looking to pick fights over nothing.
I’m glad you read the article, I hope freedumb2003 will read it.
FREEPMAIL.
LOL, perfect PDS wish....
:-)
Here are all the limited-release movies for this weekend, and how their saturday compared to friday:
+168% - Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara +156% - Snow Flower and the Secret Fan +29% - Undefeated +180% - Deiva Thirumagan +221% - Life Above All +76% - Salvation Blvd. +29% - LuckyAs you can see, of the 7 reported new limited-release movies, Undefeated's saturday increase over friday was tied for the worst with Lucky, while the average increase was 154%, Undefeated only increase 29%.
You can argue whether this is good enough, I think it is for now, but don't act like you have some knowledge of "entertainment industry professionals" -- instead, go see what they are saying. For example, at the site where I got the numbers I use, they quote: "Undefeated, a portrait of Sarah Palin, grossed $65,700 at 10 screens with a fast start and diminishing returns."
Now, you can dismiss what "industry professionals" say if you'd like, by arguing they are liberals. But that's what they are saying. Since I'm not an industry professional, i can can only compare Undefeated to all the other similarly situated movies, and read what the industry professionals are saying, and report it.
Other than big blockbusters, most movies do much better on Saturday than Friday, because Friday people are at work. For example, Transformers (not a new release), did 133% better saturday than friday. Winnie the Pooh did 69% better. Cars 2 did 145% better. Horrible Bosses did 118% better.
Do you see the trend? The only movie which did less business saturday than friday was Harry Potter, and that's because they opened friday at midnight, so the friday numbers include "thursday" viewings that were sold out.
If we exclude Harry Potter, the average for wide-release movies that were reported in both friday and saturday numbers was 119% increase, and for limited-release it was 154%.
I don't think this is that hard to understand. In terms of the numbers, a 29% increase from friday-saturday is NOT a good number. It isn't close to average for movies released this weekend, and of the movies that had numbers released friday and saturday, 29% is in the bottom three.
This doesn't mean Undefeated isn't a "success", or that it won't get a wider release. But it's absurd to say that a 29% increase is a "cause for celebration". That flies in the face of the simple facts as shown by the actual numbers. Sorry.
I want this movie to be a success. I want to to get released into theaters in my area. But we shouldn't ignore the facts, because the people in business to make money won't. As I said, I do think the numbers are good enough to get a wider release, so from that measure it was a "success".
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