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Cop threatens to execute driver over concealed weapon permit
Jalopnik ^ | 7/21/2011 | Justin Hyde

Posted on 07/22/2011 1:14:25 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter

Among the pressures facing police officiers working the streets of America is the rising number of people legally carrying concealed guns. But when one such licensee was pulled over in Canton, Ohio, an officer threatened to shoot him on the spot. Here's the chilling video.

The arrest took place in early June, but the video only came to light today from a group called Ohioans for Concealed Carry. They had been working on behalf of the driver of the Pontiac Grand Prix, known so far only as William, who was arrested and charged in the stop.

As the 17-minute dashcam video shows, the two Canton police officers see the car pulled over in a neighborhood and detain a male passenger and a woman standing outside, whom the officers quickly identify as a prostitute. After telling the driver to stay put, they detain the male passenger and search the back of the car for a few minutes.

Only after that search does Officer Daniel Harless start questioning William, some seven minutes into the video — who then admits, when he can get a word in, that he has a concealed weapon, and tries to show Harless his permit. When he discovers William's gun in his belt, Harless instead becomes enraged: "You are supposed to say that right off the goddamned bat!"

Right now, the shit that you just pulled, I could blast you right in the mouth...I am so close to caving in you're goddamn head...you're just a stupid human being...People like you don't deserve to move throughout public. Stupid idiot."

After searching the car, getting worked up with his partner, and hearing from police dispatch that William does indeed have a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon, Harless comes back to the cruiser where William has been detained:

I swear to God man this little bull crap you just pulled right now has got me so hot. You know what I should have done? I'll tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40 and just put ten bullets in your ass and let you drop. And I wouldn'tve lost any sleep. And he would have been a nice witness as I executed you because you're stupid.

William was charged with two misdemeanor counts; one for stopping in the roadway, and another for failing to inform officers of his weapons.

After the video surfaced, the Canton police announced that Harless had been put on indefinite suspension last month, and the case forwarded to Internal Affairs. Ohio gun activists are raising money for William's defense. And the rest of us get to hope the next misunderstanding ends more amicably, rather than less.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; gelato; libertarians; medicalmarijuana; ohio; prostitutes
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The video
1 posted on 07/22/2011 1:14:27 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: Straight Vermonter

I certainly can’t excuse the officer’s conduct, but for background purposes, did something happen in either Ohio or the officer’s personal life that had him so on edge?


2 posted on 07/22/2011 1:33:59 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Straight Vermonter
William was charged with two misdemeanor counts; one for stopping in the roadway, and another for failing to inform officers of his weapons...."You are supposed to say that right off the goddamned bat!"

Ah, I didn't know that CCW license holders are required to offer that info immediately upon being stopped. ...even if they're not asked.

3 posted on 07/22/2011 1:37:24 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Mr. Mojo

All I’ve ever heard is that it’s ALWAYS a good idea to tell them right away — that way there are no mistakes made, and no-one gets hurt... NOT telling the officer you are armed is a really easy way to get your head blown off. Especially if they’re asking you to exit your vehicle.

I’m guessing the police officer was more embarrassed than anything — he was completely unaware that the guy had a gun, and were it not a law-abiding citizen... well, in his head he’s probably thinking that he might not have gotten to go home ever again. That’s probably why he got so upset — more at himself, and probably at the driver, too because I don’t think cops WANT to shoot anyone unless they have to.

It’s kind of like the times when you have the right of way as a pedestrian, but the car turning isn’t going to stop — you have the right of way, but is it really worth risking your life to prove it?

Please note — I don’t personally have a CCW permit, so I don’t know all the laws that apply to it. Just seems to be common sense to me.


4 posted on 07/22/2011 1:51:18 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: Jonty30
, but for background purposes, did something happen in either Ohio or the officer’s personal life that had him so on edge?

1) Excess steroid use has given him a very small penis.

5 posted on 07/22/2011 1:51:18 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all - Aristotle)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Standard police intimidation factor.

I have to wonder how many folks would volunteer to be servants of the people if they were unarmed? The cops, not the people.


6 posted on 07/22/2011 1:51:22 AM PDT by wita
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To: Mr. Mojo

I should have added that the officer was way out of line in regards to how he handled the situation (obviously). Let’s all pray it’s a suspension that turns into a termination...


7 posted on 07/22/2011 1:52:55 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: Jonty30

As a native of that part of Ohio I would have to say that the cop’s behavior was about what one could expect from the LEOs in the area.


8 posted on 07/22/2011 1:59:36 AM PDT by gruffwolf
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To: Jonty30
I'm guessing he was a cop either in Ohio or in another state. Dunno

U wonder WHY anyhody would be cop. What does a cop make now'days after all their training, degrees and experience? $29k?

What's the worth of low life scum-bag?

Definitely MORE than that for certain. WHY would anybody be a cop? It is MORE stupid than NOT to be an atheist.

9 posted on 07/22/2011 2:03:52 AM PDT by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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To: Mr. Mojo
In some states you are required to show your permit no matter if you are carrying at the moment.
I had a problem with a rookie after calling in a disturbance. He cuffed me after I told him
the only weapon I had was a pocket knife, then he found my backup Mag
that I forgot about since I carry all the time. He took my ammo AND my knife.
I had to call his Sup to get the knife back but they wouldn't return my ammo.

Never assume the police know or understand the law, 98% don't.
He also tried to ask me a ton of questions and my only reply was "am I required
by law to answer your questions?". Yea, that pissed him off.

10 posted on 07/22/2011 2:05:20 AM PDT by MaxMax
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To: LibertyRocks
Especially if they’re asking you to exit your vehicle.

Of course. But how about if you're pulled over for a minor violation and you're not asked to exit the vehicle (as is most often the case). Should you immediately inform the officer that you have a CCW permit and that you're armed? Sounds to me like that's what this officer is saying.

11 posted on 07/22/2011 2:07:05 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Straight Vermonter

6:53 Officer: “Why do you keep having that?”

The officer seems to mean the concealed carry permit that the driver has been offering up all along.

8:45 Officer: “It’s how f***ing cops get killed!”

Nonsense. People who fill out the forms, satisfy the requirements, and work through the process to get carry permits do not murder police officers. Traffic stops are dangerous for police, but concealed carry permits are not.

Incidentally, in some jurisdictions one is required to I.D. one’s self to peace officers upon demand, but beyond that experts recommend calmly and politely declining to answer questions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrbNLt7Om8


12 posted on 07/22/2011 2:09:34 AM PDT by BladeBryan
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bump


13 posted on 07/22/2011 2:11:28 AM PDT by Ghengis
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To: Mr. Mojo

Good point... Hard to answer that one. It’d probably be safer to tell them right away so they don’t glimpse it by chance when you reach for your wallet for your license, or the glove-box for insurance. I’d have to think about that for a while though... Seems like it might open a can of worms that doesn’t really need to be opened.


14 posted on 07/22/2011 2:14:50 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: raygun

Bastiat wasn’t an atheist; he wasn’t even agnostic. Perhaps he was stupid enough to be a cop? Yet I doubt you think him that dull.

I leave the obvious conflict for you to ponder; I cannot answer it for you.


15 posted on 07/22/2011 2:25:51 AM PDT by HKMk23 (YHVH NEVER PLAYS DEFENSE! WHICH MEANS; IF YOU'RE ON DEFENSE, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.)
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To: raygun

according to salary.com, the average salary for a patrol officer in canton ohio is just under $50k/yr

not bad, considering it comes with a lifetime pension at the top of your pay grade for your career

as for this cop, he’s an idiot. if this was a bad guy, the cop and his partner would have been dead. they were lucky. instead of thanking his lucky stars, he informs the citizen that had he seen the gun, he would have shot him (brilliant... just what the public wants to know... there is now a high probability of getting killed if a moronic cop mistakes your cell for a gun)

i’m thinking the HR department needs to screen / test their people a bit more thoroughly


16 posted on 07/22/2011 2:26:02 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: raygun

U wonder WHY anyhody would be cop. What does a cop make now’days after all their training, degrees and experience? $29k?
############

Cops in Dallas start at $42,890. plus very generous benefits. One needs two years of college or two years of military service to be hired.

A sergeant makes $81,966.00

That’s more money than the vast majority of the cops could make in the private sector. It’s also enough money that police departments don’t have to keep thugs on the payroll.


17 posted on 07/22/2011 2:26:59 AM PDT by SUSSA
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To: raygun

U wonder WHY anyhody would be cop. What does a cop make now’days after all their training, degrees and experience? $29k?
############

Cops in Dallas start at $42,890. plus very generous benefits. One needs two years of college or two years of military service to be hired.

A sergeant makes $81,966.00

That’s more money than the vast majority of the cops could make in the private sector. It’s also enough money that police departments don’t have to keep thugs on the payroll.


18 posted on 07/22/2011 2:26:59 AM PDT by SUSSA
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To: LibertyRocks
All I’ve ever heard is that it’s ALWAYS a good idea to tell them right away — that way there are no mistakes made, and no-one gets hurt... NOT telling the officer you are armed is a really easy way to get your head blown off. Especially if they’re asking you to exit your vehicle.

In CA it is not required that you tell cops you have a CCW and are packing. That is if you are lucky enough to live in one of the counties that actually issue permits. In fact, my CCW instructor told us that it was stupid to tell them, since you(in CA)are not legally obligated and because some cops go ape sh** when they find out you have one.

If you are complying with the law and your firearm is concealed as it should be there is no reason for them to ever know you have one.

19 posted on 07/22/2011 2:32:10 AM PDT by calex59
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To: Straight Vermonter

This idiot cop needs to be terminated pronto.


20 posted on 07/22/2011 2:38:10 AM PDT by Silver Sabre
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To: Straight Vermonter

Looks like traffic stops in Ohio are life threatening for CCW citizens.


21 posted on 07/22/2011 2:47:37 AM PDT by moshiach
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To: Straight Vermonter

I have a slow internet connection, so I won’t be looking at the video.

what exactly is the crime of
‘stopping on the roadway’?


22 posted on 07/22/2011 2:49:22 AM PDT by 50gunsalute
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To: Straight Vermonter

The helping the hooker story aside....which is a bullshit telltale out of the gate.

This cop based on what we see an hear in this video needs his certifications an commission pulled. Name an social added to a national database to ensure he never works in or near law enforcement again an fired with prejudice as well as sued back to the ice age in civil court.

This so called cop has some issues... then threatening to harass the guy an have his car towed every time he sees him from now on !

Bad cop....your fired an exhibit a against your department an the city for letting your psycho ass have a badge....

Video an sound is on....duh !

Gheeesh ...


23 posted on 07/22/2011 2:53:25 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: raygun

This thread’s full of stupid posts, and yours is a good example.


24 posted on 07/22/2011 2:55:40 AM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
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To: LibertyRocks

From the way it appeared to me the cop wouldn’t let the guy get a word in edgewise. He had a hard on when he stepped out of the cruiser. He admitted it wouldn’t bother him to kill an innocent man then cover it up. This guy needs to be taken off the streets. Now I’ll wait for the “cops can do no wrong” crowd.


25 posted on 07/22/2011 2:56:35 AM PDT by Terry Mross (I'll only vote for a SECOND party.)
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To: Mr. Mojo
I didn't know that CCW license holders are required to offer that info immediately upon being stopped. ...even if they're not asked.

According to my CHL instructor, in Texas, when pulled over, we're supposed to roll down the window, and stay in the vehicle with both hands in plain sight on the steering wheel. When the officer walks up, we announce our name, tell the officer we are licensed to carry a concealed weapon, and state whether or not we are packing.

It's also my understanding that the computer readout in most police cars in Texas will tell if the vehicle's owner is a CHL holder.

26 posted on 07/22/2011 2:56:40 AM PDT by Zakeet (The Wee Wee's real birth certificate got shredded with his Rezko mortgage records)
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To: Silver Sabre

Terminated? The pig should do prison time for armed assault and kidnapping under the color of law amongst other things.


27 posted on 07/22/2011 3:00:19 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: raygun

They want to be cops because they’re lazy, like to buy crap on the cheap from pawn shops and like the power. At least that describes the ones I worked with during my short LEO career. And several of them liked to beat people up.


28 posted on 07/22/2011 3:02:17 AM PDT by Terry Mross (I'll only vote for a SECOND party.)
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To: Zakeet

I understand in VA they already know from your plate so by the time he comes to the window there is no need to tell them what they already know.


29 posted on 07/22/2011 3:07:40 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Jonty30

Good thing he didn’t have his dog in the car he might have shot that.


30 posted on 07/22/2011 3:08:50 AM PDT by bikerman (Where Has My America Gone?)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass
Alrighty then.

Lets just cut our loses right now.

Lets agree not to talk amongst ourselves any longer?

31 posted on 07/22/2011 3:12:55 AM PDT by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Best plan is probably to have an in-car hidden camera always recording when you are in the car, with a 16GB chip that it just keeps cycling over.

If more like this are caught, they’ll stop. And these cases need more publicity, like newspaper publicity. Same way you decrease any crime. Show them their likely to be caught.

There are a few candidates on Amazon, but they probably don’t do exactly what I want. Does anyone know of a good one?


32 posted on 07/22/2011 3:14:19 AM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
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To: raygun

I’d rather you reexamined your 4 paragraphs and realized I’m right. Blame it on needing coffee if you like. I find it hard to believe you’re that dumb all the time?


33 posted on 07/22/2011 3:16:28 AM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
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To: Straight Vermonter
This ol boy answers one of my questions

Profanity: How small minds try to speak with strength?

34 posted on 07/22/2011 3:23:22 AM PDT by don-o (Abolish FReepathons. Be a monthly donor.)
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To: LibertyRocks

LibertyRocks,
“I don’t think cops WANT to shoot anyone unless they have to”?
Reference the police shooting people simply walking across a bridge in N.O. after hurricane Katrina???
I do have a ccw and in the class I had to take one of the first things they went over was that if you are stopped by authiorities first thing you should do is announce that you have a ccw and are carrying. Then they went over where it is NOT legal to carry, (courthouse, bars) etc.


35 posted on 07/22/2011 3:25:56 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

Its good that you find it ‘difficult’ to believe.

I’m going to have to ask you a favor:

What the hell is the problem with the 4th paragraph?

I have an extrmely hard time reconcileing whatever you just said.

Was there actually a pont you had, or do you just normally spout off ‘bout thing? If you want to communicate with other people, you should have a method to do that...


36 posted on 07/22/2011 3:26:18 AM PDT by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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To: Straight Vermonter

That’s a cop who needs immediate termination. Because he’s a LEO doesn’t give him the right to threaten to kill someone. In my years of LE I never, not once, spoke to someone or heard a fellow officer speak to anyone in the manner portrayed in this video. We never threatened to cap someone and if we did we would have been in front of the IA in the Chief’s office handing in our badge and service weapon the next day.


37 posted on 07/22/2011 3:29:54 AM PDT by whatshotandwhatsnot (Islam wants you dead.)
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To: sten

Too many cops in an attempt to maintain strength and size against weight lifting criminals, take steroids and work out in the gym. Granted they bulk up and get ripped physically but the steroids also make them very aggressive and agitated. I am willing to bet between the stress and affects of steroids many cops are capable of losing it in very simple situations.


38 posted on 07/22/2011 3:31:29 AM PDT by Fee
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To: Jonty30
Sounds like steroid rage.
39 posted on 07/22/2011 3:32:47 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: Straight Vermonter
The officer's statements couldn't frame more accurately a growing public perception of police. Which is unfortunate.

One of the major aspects of that perception is that the police have a license to kill. And when they do the presumption of police officials, prosecutors, judges, and politicians is that they were justified and it takes extreme evidence that must be public before anything is done. And then the actions taken for wrongful killing are inappropriate like mere suspension or at the most dismissal.

Given that capital punishment is so limited by the States, why is extrajudicial, and summary, execution countenanced by the States? Not to mention the citizenry? Because that is just what so much of police violence against citizens is, what happened in Arizona for example. Another troubling aspect of the growing perception is the evident brutality and deadened conscience as shown in this case.

40 posted on 07/22/2011 3:32:47 AM PDT by hfr (For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom 10.4)
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To: bikerman

Grim LOL


41 posted on 07/22/2011 3:33:05 AM PDT by Salamander (I'm your pain.)
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To: Jonty30

“I certainly can’t excuse the officer’s conduct, but for background purposes, did something happen in either Ohio or the officer’s personal life that had him so on edge?”

Small penis?


42 posted on 07/22/2011 3:33:41 AM PDT by Salamander (I'm your pain.)
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To: Jonty30
Sounds like steroid rage.
43 posted on 07/22/2011 3:34:31 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (When the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn (Pr.29:2))
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To: Mr. Mojo

We used to be required to inform police without being asked,if stopped, but no longer ,here in Texas,anyway. Only if they ask, now


44 posted on 07/22/2011 3:35:29 AM PDT by Quickgun (As a former fetus, I'm opposed to abortion. Mamas don't let your cowboys grow up to be babies..)
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To: bikerman

Dogs and cops do not mix.


45 posted on 07/22/2011 3:35:43 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Straight Vermonter

later


46 posted on 07/22/2011 3:37:00 AM PDT by digger48
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To: raygun

No doubt the cop over reacted with his statments and attitude towards the CCW permit holder. That said, the guy with the CCW permit was indeed stupid to have waited sooooooo long to advise the LEO. Neither were innocent in this incident but, I am siding with the officer on this one, except for his language and attitude.

Most often, (I DID NOT SAY ALL THE TIME) the people the LEO’s have to deal with on the streets are up to no good. They (LEO’s) deal with the dregs of society more than the good guys and if you saw what they are up agains’t from day to day, you might think different of the LEO’s who so often are condemed here on FR. Yea, I know there are bad LEO’s out there but most of them are the good guys.


47 posted on 07/22/2011 3:41:41 AM PDT by Progov
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To: raygun

My primary problem is why you chose, in a hotbutton thread about guns, to randomly start an argument with the 99% of FReepers who are Christian?


48 posted on 07/22/2011 3:45:23 AM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

My issue is your percpetion of raondomness. Not only thatg, but that such trivial issue is PRIMAY in your mind.

You are a fool as far as I’m concerned.


49 posted on 07/22/2011 3:48:27 AM PDT by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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To: wastoute

“I understand in VA they already know from your plate so by the time he comes to the window there is no need to tell them what they already know.”

Yeah, it’s tied to your plates but screwups occur. I just hand them my permit with my license so there is no question. No muss, no fuss, and VA cops are generally used to dealing with permitholders. Plus we have VCDL for those unfortunate “misunderstandings.”


50 posted on 07/22/2011 3:49:53 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (STOP the looting - Repudiate the National Debt)
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