The euro crisis will give Germany the empire it’s always dreamed of

Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | July 21, 2011 | Peter Oborne

[Olog-hai]

The faith of leading European politicians and bankers in monetary union…can be traced back to the set of temporary political circumstances in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, and which was brought to bear without serious economic analysis, is essentially irrational. Indeed, in many ways, the euro bears comparison to the gold standard.…

…By authorizing a huge expansion in the bailout fund that is propping up the EU’s peripheral members (largely in order to stop the contagion spreading to Italy and Spain), the eurozone has taken the decisive step to becoming a fiscal union…yesterday will come to be seen as the witching hour after which Europe will cease to be, except vestigially, a collection of nation states. It will have one economic government, one currency, one foreign policy.…This is the final realization of the dream that animated the founders of the Common Market more than half a century ago—which is one reason why so many prominent Europeans have privately welcomed the eurozone catastrophe, labeling it a “beneficial crisis”. …

While these nations relapse into pre-modern economic systems, Germany is busy turning into one of the most dynamic and productive economies in the world. Despite the grumbling, for the Germans, the bailouts are worth every penny, because they guarantee a cheap outlet for their manufactured goods. Yesterday’s witching hour of the European Union means that Germany has come very close to realizing Bismarck’s dream of an economic empire stretching from central Europe to the Eastern Mediterranean.…

[OldNewYork]

It may be a German reality now, leading to empire, but it was France’s dream - when they weren’t allowed by their allies and the world community to just annex Germany’s Saarland outright after WWII like they did Elssetz and Lothringen (Alsace-Lorraine) after WWI. That coal and industrial agreement between the two is the core from which the EU developed.

[MrEdd]

Or Europe will collapse back into smaller states, and the socialists will be humiliated.

[nickcarraway]

An empire where people are free to send sentences in prepositions...

[allmost]

The Germans may find it too large of a burden to bear. Just a though.

[cartan]

The author is not quite grasping the depth of insanity among German politicians. Nothing about the EU is in the German interest. These politicians are selling out their own country’s interests for their dream of a European superstate, a kind of European Union of Socialist Soviet Republics led not by Berlin but by communists in Brussels. They presumably expect a nice position in the ruling bureaucracy of Brussels in the future. Nobody in Germany wants any of this, except some left-wingers, of course, and nobody agrees with throwing trillions of German tax-payer money out the window for the EU.

[gr8eman]

What is amazing is that the majority of Germans have no clue that their socialist Eutopia was just sold down the road to Greece...or whoever. The microsecond that money is transferred...its gone...poof...like the first “bailout”. When it only gets worse a year from now....what will they say then?

[cartan]

Good question. I guess we are going to see an annual repetition. And when the standard of living keeps falling, the government-owned media will blame greedy capitalists and the US again, and people will believe them as usual. We probably need a really big crash until people wake up. I wonder how long it is going to take.

[Malesherbes]

When I arrived in Germany for a six year stay, my next door neighbor told me, “Forget about the German work ethic. It doesn’t exist anymore. Just try getting something repaired.”

It’s all relative, of course. The work ethic may have declined in Germany. but it is still stronger there than among its neighbors.

[Olog-hai]

---

The author is not quite grasping the depth of insanity among German politicians. Nothing about the EU is in the German interest. These politicians are selling out their own country’s interests for their dream of a European superstate, a kind of European Union of Socialist Soviet Republics led not by Berlin but by communists in Brussels

---

I agree that ultimately it’s not in the German interest insofar as the people, but the EU is most definitely not led by the undemocratic government in Brussels; they’re just a proxy for Berlin. The 2009 decision of Germany’s Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe made them, as Die Tageszeitung put it, “overseers of the EU” in a legal sense.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Olog-hai. Germany’s population will exceed Russia’s before a.d. 2100; Poland will exceed Germany’s and Russia’s.

[European Guest]

You said:

“....Thanks Olog-hai. Germany’s population will exceed Russia’s before a.d. 2100; Poland will exceed Germany’s and Russia’s....”

Nope.

The fertillity rate of Russia: 1.42 children born/woman (2011 est.)

The fertillity rate of Germany: 1.41 children born/woman (2011 est.)

The fertillity rate of Poland: 1.3 children born/woman (2011 est.)

Source: CIA factbook.

P.S. Polish women -although they are catholic- seem to have discovered the pill even more than their sisters in Germany and Russia. ;)

[European Guest]

The German interest is not a superstate, the basic German interest are open markets for German goods. Only very few here know that Germany sells the same amount of goods into the Netherlands i.e. like into the United States. Furthermore it imports 2 times as much from the Netherlands than from China.

Other European countries could be added like France, Austria and Italia. This are the important markets where Germany earns its money. The US or China i.e. are only minor matters in comparison to the EU from the German point of view.

This is the reason why Germany is paying for the Greek bailout in the moment. Strategic interests...

[cartan]

Is that so? Seems like the current financial crisis is distorting the statistics. As of 2005, for example, the list goes:

France	$99 billion	10.2% of total German exports
US	$85.5 billion	8.8%
UK	$76.7 billion	7.9%
Italy	$67 billion	6.9%
Netherlands	$59.2 billion	6.1%

All parties have an interest in free markets, not just the German side. And this is the common excuse made for the tons of money German politicians have been pouring into the EU pit, indeed. However, it seems less and less likely that this is justified. We already had free trade before the Euro was introduced. And since the introduction of the Euro, the part of German exports going into the Euro countries has actually gone down. We can have free trade without a European superstate, and without a European currency. We already had, for decades. And Germans were much better off back then. That does not explain the constant drive to transfer all power to Brussels.

No, you do not understand how German politicians think :-) They want to prove to the whole world that they are now much better than not only the Nazis, but better than everybody else! They, the Germans, are willing to sacrifice everything for the common good! If that means borrowing extra money to put all of Greece on German social welfare, great! If it means giving up all sovereignty for the “European dream,” great! If it means to de-industrialize Germany for the phantasies of the eco-Nazis, great! Yay, we, the Germans, are going to save the planet all alone! And everybody will love us for it!

They are nuts! Insanity was what drove German politics back in the 1930s and 40s; and now we are getting back there.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks E.G. The CIA World Factbook has Germany’s population growth rate at -0.208%, Russia’s at -0.47%, and Poland’s at -0.062% (2011 est.). All three show current shrinkage, with Russia’s shrinking fastest. Median female age is highest in Germany, among these three countries.

On the PRB website, Norway, Iceland, and France have the highest b-r in Europe, of course, France’s Islamic population may be skewing those numbers.

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2010/worldpopulationclock2010.aspx

[European Guest]

Well - the sad general trend in the German export statistic is, that the trans-atlantic flow is loosing its importance quite fast. The good thing was so far, that it could be compensated through a increased exchange of goods within the EU.

My family owns three firms in Germany and France that are mainly involved in export business. Believe it or not, but the EU made everything easier for us. There were tons of red tape in the 90ties i.e., that disappeared completely in the meantime. It is very easy to sell or buy things within the EU today. That was not always so and our business had its benefit from the “integration” for sure. There are practical matters that make business going: The same engineer standards, the same laws, the same currency and - last but not least - open boarders.

To make it short - we earned and earn our money because of the EU. That is a fact.

I am well aware that the EU is a fragile structure and I am against any transfer-union of course. Germany is already a transfer-union since a long time. Berlin, your hometown could not pay for its schools anymore i.e., if they would not get the money from Baden-Wuerttemberg or Bavaria for it. It is true - my hard earned tax money is paid to Berliners als welfare. The German east and north are sucking out the west and south over transfer payments.

(sarc. on) The Germans in the German south dream about a invasion of Austria or Switzerland in Bavaria and Baden-Wuerrtemberg so that they could get rid of northern and eastern part of the country. Alsatians, Austrians and Swiss people are in a ethnologic point of view much closer to me than anyone from Berlin. Therefore I would be the first one to declare complete surrender (sarc. off).

The structural fault of the EU is, that Kohl, Schroeder and Merkel made it far too big. Germany, France, Italy, Poland, the Benelux and North Europe would have been enough. But the situation is like it is, and something must be done. To kill the EU for a national solution would mean to kill the export business in the German south that earns the Berlin welfare. Since America lost its virility as an selling market to Europe and Germany we need other markets for our products. This is quite simple.

Personally I do not believe into a German dominated superstate and a German de-industrialisation through Eco-nazis. What would be the benefit for those politicians you are talking about? Cui bono?

The point is that the German Greens are the new CDU. They are as studpid, as undemocratic and as dislikable as their role models from the old CDU. But they are not crazy. Simply take the voters of the Greens: Young urban professionals in their mid 30ties who know that money must be earned. BTW - The most idiotic eco-terror was not made by the Greens but by Angela Merkel and her moronic team: Nuclear phaseout, windmills and photovoltaics...

The sad thing is that in Germany it is senseless to vote, since the outcome will be alway the same BS. No matter if we talk about the Greens, the SPD or the CDU.

[cartan]

Believe it or not, but the EU made everything easier for us. There were tons of red tape in the 90ties i.e., that disappeared completely in the meantime.

Oh, there is no doubt about that. I liked the EU as a free trade zone. That’s what is should be. And a common currency is not necessary for that, as is a common super-state government.

Germany is already a transfer-union since a long time. Berlin, your hometown could not pay for its schools anymore i.e., if they would not get the money from Baden-Wuerttemberg or Bavaria for it. It is true - my hard earned tax money is paid to Berliners als welfare. The German east and north are sucking out the west and south over transfer payments.

I know. This permanent money transfer has been a big mistake from the start. Without it, the Northern states’ leftist governments had been forced to spend more responsibly.

…anyone from Berlin.

Now, now. Believe it or not, not everybody in Berlin is a socialist nutjob ;-)

Personally I do not believe into a German dominated superstate and a German de-industrialisation through Eco-nazis. What would be the benefit for those politicians you are talking about? Cui bono?

I don’t think the superstate would be German dominated. I think the Germans would be its cashcow. That the ecos are trying to de-industrialize Germany has been true since their founding days. I am old enough to remember those unfortunate times. There is no “bono”—it is a highly irrational worldview. The people who founded the Green Party were the old 68ers…mostly Maoists and Trotskyites who had been living with insane worldviews for a long time, looking for a new quasi-religion. Back then, they would openly tell everyone that they think that we should live as in the middle ages, or like the American Indians. All technology is bad, nuclear power is Satanic, etc etc. And once all that evil technology has been abandoned, we will spend our days dancing in sunflower fields to pan flute music. And if only the jews had been as smart as them, they would have made a Sitzblockade in Auschwitz, and the Nazis would have been so impressed by their love of peace, that they would have dropped their weapons and joined their peace movement! Oh, and the Soviets, too! (I am not making that up!)

And now this insane world view has become so pervasive that other parties like CDU and SPD see no other chance but joining the madness.

The sad thing is that in Germany it is senseless to vote, since the outcome will be alway the same BS. No matter if we talk about the Greens, the SPD or the CDU.

Yes. As of now, the situation looks absolutely hopeless. I am going to vote Sonstige next time.

[European Guest]

You said:

“...Yes. As of now, the situation looks absolutely hopeless. I am going to vote Sonstige next time...”

It is somehow depressing. I refused to go voting in Baden-Wuerttemberg in the past election, since I saw absolutely no choice anymore among serious political parties. I do not vote for crazy nazis or dumb communists either. Therefore the whole thing remembered me to the “Nationale Front” of the GDR. Four parties with the same socialist Bullshi*-program. We need fundamental change.

[cartan]

I always voted for the FDP. But I won’t do that again, since they have shown that getting positions is more important for them than anything they supposedly stand for. They have always been wrong on a number of issues, anyway. Violent criminals must be punished and locked away. There is nothing illiberal about that. Why can’t they see that? And so on.

I am not sure who else to vote for, either. Some people say that the Republikaner are not Nazi anymore, but I still remember them when they were new, and yessir, they were as Nazi as the NPD. So I really do not want to vote for them. I will probably vote for the Freiheit. I think their focus on Islam is a little nutso (and not only in light of current events), but I do not see anything better at the moment, and I do not want to throw the vote away, either.