Egypt decides to withdraw ambassador from Israel

Associated Press ^ | August 19, 2011

[Free ThinkerNY]

CAIRO (AP) -- The Egyptian Cabinet says it has decided to withdraw its ambassador from Israel over the deaths of Egyptian security forces in fighting after an ambush targeting Israelis near the border between the two countries.

The Cabinet statement issued early Saturday says the ambassador will be withdrawn until Israel investigates the shooting deaths of five Egyptian security forces.

[Las Vegas Ron]

Indeed, it looks like they're putting some final touches on Samantha Powers (Cass Sunstein’s wife) “Responsibility to Protect” doctrine.

One thing that really bothers me is the 40+ tzars that obama has working behind the scenes.

What are they up to?

This revelation of “Atrocities Prevention Board” caught some attention but what else has slipped under the radar.

I don't trust these commies as far as I can throw them, I wish more attention was given to this aspect of the administration.

Do a Google search on her, some pretty interesting things pop up.

[zbogwan2]

President Obama is such a lightweight pantywaist that no matter what he says will have much impact on the Middle East dis functionalism?

[Eleutheria5]

Either Egypt polices the Sinai, or Israel will have to take over the area around Eilat. If that means war, it means war.

[justiceseeker93]

The recent terrorist attacks by Islamists on Israel would probably have not occurred had there been no change in government in Egypt this year. The "Arab spring" has obviously emboldened terrorist groups around the Arab world. The current Egyptian government is less than zealous in suppressing terrorist groups operating in the Sinai.

The withdrawal of the Egyptian ambassador to Israel probably signals the end of the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, a treaty that one could foresee would crumble as soon as the planned line of succession of Egyptian political leadership was breached. It's in practicality a treaty between Israel and the line of Sadat-Mubarak, not a treaty between Israel and Egypt.

[Elendur]

great link, thank you very much!

and i worry a lot about Egypt. as soon as the Muslim Brotherhood finish consolidating Egypt
(thanks to OBAMA)
they have one THOUSAND M1A1 Abrams...

It was close in 1973. If all the surrounding countries invade, with the American made equipment,
Israel probably can’t survive without going nuclear,
and maybe not even then...

[Nachum]

The list, ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/

[trebb]

Yes they are back to stay - the Bible says so - but much trouble is coming - it will be staggering

Even worse than staggering - Armageddon...the only question is when the real pain begins as things develop toward His promise.

[Red6]

1. The game they play is a matter of definitions. By defining where/who's counted they can create their nice little counter argument.

2. We're talking about long term trends, not a three year bubble 2007 - 2010.

The Muslims are out breeding you, 2.1% growth in occupied territories (Gaza/West bank combined). In Israel overall you have a 1.8% growth rate but even there a large portion is Arab, not Jewish and the projection is that OVERALL the population will shift over the next 20 years to a more Arab one. The power base of the people surrounding Israel is “increasing” while Israel is flat lining: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt in all aspects (economic, political, social, militarily). In fact, in the Middle East at large the booming centers of growth today are NOT Israel but places with names like Qatar, Dubai, etc. While these nations pose no immanent threat to Israel, their governments and populations do see Israel and the Jewish population in a negative way and their political, economic and military might is increasing both regionally and on the world stage. The influence of Israel on the other hand and the political will/need to support them is waining in the West.

Netanyahu is right and the problem is even worse than most recognize or wish to accept. You have to look at this long term and at a macro level, not slicing it up with definitions and geographically so you get some "feel good" answer.

There are trustworthy sources:” http://www.gov.il/FirstGov/NewsEng/NewsEng_ArabPopulation.htm

[Red6]

The problem with such a slow death as Israel faces is that it's largely self inflicted and often goes unnoticed or even ignored if noticed. People don't want to deal with it and have the option of ignoring or kicking the can down the road.... From year to year the demographics shifts ever so slightly and people hardly even perceive the gradual loss of cultural and ethnic identity because as this gradual change occurs the changes get absorbed into ones own new perception of “normal.”

“Sorry, not true.” lol- Tell that to Haifa University doing the research on demographics.

[Red6]

Alright, let's break this down for you and I will only use your singular point of measure, “growth of GDP:”

Israel, GDP growth 4.6%, Qatar 18.6%, UAE 6.3%, Saudi Arabia 4.0%, Egypt 4.7%, Syria 5.0%, Bahrain 4.5%, Lebanon 5.0%...

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5437.htm
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5444.htm
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3584.htm
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5309.htm
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3580.htm
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/26414.htm
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35833.htm

Get this into your head, It's not 1968 anymore. Israel is surrounded by economies larger than her own, growing faster than hers, nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE... Some of these nations are technologically radiply advancing, populations are larger than Israel's and out growing her even on her own turf. Take a look at Youtube and what's happening, every Muslim today has Internet too. Because of the growth in wealth and globalization of economies, these people travel, as do their idea's and values. Take a look at Lebanon today, not only are they rebounding economically, but they demographically shifted to be a Muslim nation probably in the early 60s (Some experts- pro Islam state this happened in the 30s that's really just a way to rationalize the cause of the war and blame it on those evil “Christians” that weren't giving Muslims enough say). The strategic significance of nations like Saudi Arabia have multiplied in the eyes of the West that today are more dependent more than ever on their oil, and they like Iran know how to leverage this. The Muslim world is growing in influence by leaps and bounds may that be culturally, economically or even in defense. The post WWII and Holocaust guilt is gone. Just look at the media in the West! In the 50 and even liberal 60s and 70s vehemently pro Israel, today have a pro Palestinian, Arab or Muslim slant in many cases. Hell, what use to be a media championing Israel, today is run by the likes of Fareed Zakaria (Newsweek 2000 - 2010) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fareed_Zakaria

Let's look at some indicators:

Could you have imagined Germany selling Saudi Arabia 270 of her most advanced tanks and making anti Israeli statements during a war like the one in 2006 back in 1981?

Was Iran one of Germany's largest trading partners in 1981?

Was it even conceivable that Iran would be a nuclear power in 1981?

The idea that the UAE fly’s a more modern F-16 than the US, would that have been conceivable in 1981?

That a large numbers of publications are owned, have chief editors or are in other ways heavily influenced by Muslims as is the case in Great Britain, imaginable in 1981?

Do you think that in 1981 one would have thought Israel would LOOSE in a conflict fought in Lebanon in a proxy war against Iran?

In 1981, would a US President have said this? “We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states.” (Obama, May 2011.)

Could anyone have imagined that members of despot regimes would sit on committees in the UN and scold Israel, recommend action be taken against Israel for her actions in Gaza, in 1981?

The Idea of a Palestinian state recognized by most of the world and only Europe and North America holding out (and they will fall, believe me, Europe wants to go ahead and it's really only the US that's left holding out) in 1981 would have been laughed at. Nations that today recognize a state of Palestine: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Palestine_recognitions_only.png

---

Tell me, do you seriously not see a gradual shift in power?

[Red6]

Israel is in a long term pickle and I think the policy makers, intel community, IDF and those people that work in the realm of national security at a “strategic” level know this. Policy makers in the West even know this.

Why do you think in reality even in the West you see this readjusting of policy and rhetoric towards Israel happening slowly but surely?

Hint- Demographics even in the West, trade/money, strategic resources (in this case oil).

2.5 million Muslims living in US, Germany 5.4% or 4.3 million ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Germany )

France 8.7 - 9% and rapidly growing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France )

Netherlands 5% ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Netherlands )... You don't think that starts to influence the policies and foreign affairs of a nation? Especially when this group of people is organized around their religion? Who to the Germans is more important, Iran with their oil and trade in goods or Israel?

German exports to Iran ~ $6.2 billion.
German exports to Israel ~ $2.3 billion.

BTW, who has oil and guess where a lot is going? What do you think that does to the power base of a nation like Iran when dealing with the Germans?

In 20 years things will look very ugly for Israel. There are ups and downs along the way, but the trend is towards a shift in power to the Muslim/Arabic side in ALL aspects. Save this post and prove me wrong.

[Red6]

Running out of arguments? Logic can't stand up anymore? Feel bad about the trend and developments? Resort to ad hominem attacks and deny reality. You know, in WWII the German radio was still screaming, “We're winning the war!” (Wir gewinnen den Krieg) in 1945 as US tanks sat in Cologne and the Russians was knocking on the doors of Berlin.

I've been to Israel and I like Israel unlike nearly the entire rest of the Middle East that is an ignorant, filthy, backward cesspool. But that doesn't change the fact that they are in serious long term trouble. The Germans will sell to anyone, including Saddams Iraq, today's Mullah's in Iran... and that's the problem. Calling people names because they spell out a bad trend doesn't help your cause, buddy. Iran today is strategically more important to the Germans than Israel, bottom line.

Here are the trends and they have been going on for a long time now:

1. The political influence of many Arab and Muslim nations has increased because of the resources (oil) but also trade (buying of goods and services) with Western nations.

2. The population of Jewish Israeli's is not holding pace with the growth of Arab Israeli's and those in the occupied territories. The population of Israeli’s isn't holding pace with that of surrounding Muslim nations. While the Jewish population in most Western nations holds constant or is even in decline, the Muslim population is growing: US, Great Britain, Germany, India, Canada, France...

3. The rise in Muslim population even in Western nations creates an inner pressure on policy makers. These people largely vote on certain issues as a homogeneous block, the threat of inner stability influences decision making as well as does the ability to “contribute” to political campaigns. One of the last major strongholds of Israel's interests is their lobbying (formal and informal) ability in the US which greatly affects US foreign policy.

4. The WII/Holocaust guilt of past is used up. The new generations don't care. Their is a growing secularization in Western nations (Westerners are loosing their religion), their cultural bond to Israel and the Jews specifically is in decline from a religious perspective.

5. Technologically many Arab nations have modernized, as have their armed forces. They have professionalized their armed forces that have also largely doctrinally advanced.

6. Globalization, through trade, the Internet, international media Al Arabia, Al Jazzier... The Arab/Muslim perspective in the West has become the “predominant” one with Al Jazzier on most European cable networks, pro-Arab/Mulsim papers sold on news stands etc.

There doesn't need to be another major war between Israel and her enemies at this point. Economics, demographics, the media and the political process will do what seven wars over 60 years were incapable of accomplishing. Israel's death will be a silent walk into darkness and it is the fact that this shift in power and it's causes are largely unperceived that exacerbate the problem. If you were truly supportive of Israel, don't attack me for pointing this out, ask yourself what you should do. But in the meantime you always have the option of cherry-picking those indicators that feel good to you and be like a cancer patient that is in denial. Got it- the Israeli government and Haifa university are lying but the local paper that through the game of definitions obviously creates a self fulfilling argument is believable, regards demographics. lol