Posted on 08/24/2011 8:03:36 AM PDT by gandalftb
Only if we could get the rest of the haters of the Constitution to follow his lead.
Most people don't think. They feeeeeeel...
I've demonstrated that the US House of representatives does just that. Whether it is legal in every sense is irrelevant. If Congress want to call then Sugar Plum Fairies they can do that too.
If Congress self identifies it's attendees by a certain name, that has to be good enough for all of us. I'll have that cigar now.
Thanks for the response.
Saw news report that the 4 journalists are safe now. Also, the $2 million dead or alive on Gadaffi also includes an amnesty for the person who kills or captures him, even if they are long term Gadaffi loyalists/henchmen.
Perhaps things will settle down a bit soon.
I don't. The guy seems to be just another racist, "social justice"-based salvation charlatan, like so many other who infect the black community in America.
Thanks for the update ...
One cannot drink the local water in many places, and I was certain before this that Tripoli, Libya was one of them...
BTW, I well recall the "Riyadh rumbleguts" fwiw...
the infowarrior
I've demonstrated that the US House of representatives does just that. Whether it is legal in every sense is irrelevant. If Congress want to call then Sugar Plum Fairies they can do that too.
If Congress self identifies it's attendees by a certain name, that has to be good enough for all of us. I'll have that cigar now.
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Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner – FR was DOWN HARD 8/25 to 8/26 and I am also in “Hurricane Alley”…
I hope you have the INTEGRITY to read ALL of the supporting documentation after my summary. Keep this point in mind - IF the House of Representatives meant to INCLUDE Delegates and Resident Commissioners as Congressmen or Congresswomen, WHY did they go to ALL the trouble to DRAW DISTINCTIONS between them?
If Delegates and Resident Commisioners ARE Congressmen or Congresswomen, the House of Representatives could have simply stated that, "All Representatives, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners who sit in the House of Representatives are called either Congressmen or Congresswomen".
IT did not ...
AND, IN CASE YOU ARE WONDERING, YOU DON’T GET THE CIGAR ...
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Summary:
I will give you the fifty-cent analysis of this long dissertation.
Per the House of Representatives web site, the Clerk of the House of Representatives Kids In The Hall web site, Public Law 62-5, [United States Code, Title 10, Subtitle C, Part III, Chapter 603, Paragraph 6958], the Rules of the House of Representatives, [the United States Constitution, Article I, Section V, Paragraph II], [USC Title 48 - Territories And Insular Possessions, Chapter 4 – Puerto Rico, Sub-Chapter 5 – Resident Commissioner, Paragraph 891], [Public Law 91-405, Title II - Sec. 201 and 202], [United States Constitution, Article I, Section 6, Paragraph I], and the 27th Amendment – the following can be said:
1. A “Congressman” or “Congresswoman” is defined by the House of Representatives as a duly elected Representative, elected for a two-year term, from a specific Congressional District. As such, the duly elected Representative is a Member of the House of Representatives. Only Members may be called “Congressmen” or “Congresswomen”. Requirements for membership in the House of Representatives are defined in Article I, Section II of the United States Constitution. Delegates and Resident Commissioners ARE EXCLUDED from membership in the House of Representatives by this provision in the United States Constitution and the provision CANNOT be altered, except by amendment.
2. Congressional Districts are DISTINCTLY different from the incorporated and unincorporated territories [the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, and Puerto Rico]. A requirement in Item 1 [above] is that a “Congressman” or “Congresswoman” serve a “specific Congressional District”. Delegates and Resident Commissioners CANNOT do that, since their areas of representation are incorporated and unincorporated territories – WHICH ARE NOT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.
3. A Resident Commissioner has an additional problem in that he/she is elected to a four-year term, as opposed to the two-year term that is specified for a “Congressman” or “Congresswoman”.
4. The Rules of the House of Representatives [which are authorized by the United States Constitution] makes a CLEAR DISTINCTION between “Members, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners” [For example, See Rule 25].
5. Delegates and Resident Commissioners are SOMETIMES referred to as “Members of Congress” in specific legislation. This is done so that the phrase “Members of Congress, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners” DOES NOT HAVE TO BE REPEATED over and over again in the legislation. FYI: The Vice-President [as President of the Senate] is SOMETIMES referred to as a “Member of Congress” in this context – if he is ALSO affected by the legislation. When this happens, a caveat such as “For the purposes of this Act” is prefaced BEFORE the designation of Delegates and Resident Commissioners [and sometimes the Vice-President] as “Members of Congress”. Meaning that it ONLY APPLIES to the specific Act and NOT ALL legislation.
6. FURTHERMORE, lawmakers SOMETIMES refer to Delegates and Resident Commissioners as “Congressmen” or “Congresswomen” – but their statements ARE NOT supported by appropriate legislation or rules.
7. The ONLY privileges afforded to Delegates and Resident Commissioners are LIMITED to the provisions of compensation as outlined in the United States Constitution, Article I, Section 6 [and as modified by the 27th Amendment]. This DOES NOT include membership in the House of Representatives, which is a REQUISITE to being called a “Congressman” or “Congresswoman”.
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Supporting Documentation:
The House of Representatives web site states:
”What is a Representative?”
”Also referred to as a congressman or congresswoman, each representative is elected to a two-year term serving the people of a specific congressional district. Among other duties, representatives introduce bills and resolutions, offer amendments and serve on committees. The number of representatives with full voting rights is 435, a number set by Public Law 62-5 on August 8, 1911, and in effect since 1913. The number of representatives per state is proportionate to population.”
”Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution provides for both the minimum and maximum sizes for the House of Representatives. Currently, there are five delegates representing the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. A resident commissioner represents Puerto Rico. The delegates and resident commissioner possess the same powers as other members of the House, except that they may not vote when the House is meeting as the House of Representatives.”
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Now, we must investigate the first paragraph. Does the phrase “specific congressional district” INCLUDE the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands? In order to ascertain this, perhaps it is for us best to look at the United States Code, specifically the qualifications of admission to the military academies. I chose Navy and Marine Corps since I come from a Navy family, but all of the academies have the same paragraph that specify DOMICILE:
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United States Code [hereafter referred to as USC]:
USC, Title 10 - Armed Forces, Subtitle C - Navy and Marine Corps, Part III - Education And Training, Chapter 603 - United States Naval Academy
§ 6958. Midshipmen: Qualifications For Admission
(a) Each candidate for admission to the Naval Academy –
(1) must be at least 17 years of age and must not have passed his twenty-third birthday on July 1 of the calendar year in which he enters the Academy; and
(2) shall be examined according to such regulations as the Secretary of the Navy prescribes, and if rejected at one examination may not be examined again for admission to the same class unless recommended by the Academic Board.
(b) Each candidate for admission nominated under clauses (3) through (9) of section 6954 (a) of this title must be domiciled in the State, or in the congressional district, from which he is nominated, or in the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, or the Virgin Islands, if nominated from one of those places.
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Here, we see a CLEAR distinction [in United States Law] between a “Congressional District” and the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, and the Virgin Islands – which are referred to as ”PLACES”
Are we done yet? NO. What kind of “PLACES” are these areas? For that, we refer to the Clerk of the House of Representatives ”Kids In The Hall” web site:
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”Delegates, elected every two years, represent incorporated territories.”
[Note: "These are regions or districts of the United States not admitted as states, but that have their own legislatures and the potential to become states"].
”Resident Commissioners, elected every four years, represent unincorporated territories.”
[Note: "These are regions or districts of the United States not admitted as states, but that have their own legislatures and NO potential to become states"].
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So, what do we have now?
Per the House of Representatives web site and the Clerk of the House of Representatives Kids In The House web site, a CONGRESSMAN or CONGRESSWOMAN is a duly elected REPRESENTATIVE [for a 2-year term], who serves his [or her] CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. DELEGATES and RESIDENT COMMISSIONERS ONLY represent incorporated territories and unincorporated territories, respectively.
Per the USC [which is the compendium of the codified laws of the United States], incorporated and unincorporated territories ARE NOT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS, they are PLACES. DELEGATES AND RESIDENT COMMISSIONERS, THUS, DO NOT QUALIFY as CONGRESSMEN or CONGRESSWOMEN.
RESIDENT COMMISIONERS have an ADDITIONAL problem in that they are elected to 4-year terms NOT 2-year terms – and, THUS, DO NOT QUALIFY as CONGRESSMEN or CONGRESSWOMEN.
BUT, let us go further …
Per the Clerk of the House of Representatives Kids In The House web site:
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"Delegates And Resident Commissioners"
”Like Members, Delegates and Resident Commissioners represent their constituents in the U.S. House of Representatives. Although they are afforded many of the same rights and responsibilities as Members, Delegates and Resident Commissioners are not considered Members of the U.S. House of Representatives and, therefore, are not included in the Member-count of 435.”
"Office Of The Delegate"
"Delegates have served in the U.S. House of Representatives since the late 1700’s. The office of the Delegate was established by the Continental Congress through the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. The Ordinance established a government for the territory northwest of the Ohio River and created the position of Delegate. Although it created the position, the Ordinance did not outline the duties, privileges, and obligations of the position. In fact, the original legislation did not even designate which Chamber of Congress Delegates should belong to. After debate between the U.S. House and U.S. Senate, and it was eventually decided that all Delegates should serve in the U.S. House of Representatives."
"Office of the Resident Commissioner"
"The role of Resident Commissioner was created by Congress in 1900, after securing Puerto Rico and the Philippines as territories during the Spanish-American War of 1898. Following the precedent set by Delegates, Resident Commissioners were added to the roster of the U.S. House of Representatives. Although treated similarly to Delegates, Resident Commissioners were not granted the right to speak on the House floor or serve on committees until 1904. Before that time, they were only able to discuss legislation with Members in their private quarters or committee rooms."
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From the Clerk of the House of Representatives web site:
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"A Member of Congress is a person serving in the House of Representatives or the Senate. A Member of the House of Representatives is referred to as Representative or Congressman or Congresswoman, and a Member of the Senate is referred to as Senator."
"In most respects, delegates and the resident commissioner possess the same powers as other Members of the House. On the House Floor, they can speak, introduce bills and resolutions and offer amendments. All serve on committees of the House and possess powers and privileges equal to other Members in committee. Delegates may also vote while the House of Representatives is conducting business as the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union. Unlike Members of the House, however, they may not vote when the House is meeting as the House of Representatives."
"Requirements for membership in the House of Representatives are provided in Article I, Section 2 of the US Constitution:"
”No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state in which he shall be chosen.”
"These requirements cannot be changed without a constitutional amendment."
"The current size, 435 Members, of the House of Representatives, was established by Public Law 62-5 on August 8, 1911 and took effect in 1913."
"Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution provides for both the minimum and maximum sizes for the House of Representatives."
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Not to mention this:
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"Rules Of The House Of Representatives":
"Rule 25: Copyright Royalties"
"3. (a) A Member, Delegate, Resident Commissioner, officer, or employee of the House may not receive an advance payment on copyright royalties."
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Under Rule 25, the House of Representatives makes a DEFINITE DISTINCTION between Members, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners.
The House of Representatives is authorized to make its own rules under the United States Constitution by the following:
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"United States Constitution, Article I, Section V, Paragraph II"
"Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member."
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This gives validity to House Rule 25, above.
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Note: FYI: You will notice that in some laws there may be a sentence or phrase granting Delegates and Resident Commissioners equal status as Members of Congress. DO NOT take that to mean that they ARE Members of Congress.
It is done for brevity when Congress wants to include all who sit in Congress [Members, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners]. USUALLY, this is because there are many Sections within an ACT that affect Members, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners as a whole.
The language contained within the statements ALWAYS contains a qualifier, such as For the purposes of this Act, For the Purposes of this Section, For the purposes of this Sub-Section, etc. This means that it applies ONLY to the Act, Section, and/or Sub-Section cited.
This is done so that the statute WILL NOT have to contain many redundant clauses containing ”Members of Congress, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners” …
For example:
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"USC, Title 5 – Government Organization And Employees, Part III – Employees, Sub-Part A – General Provisions, Chapter 21 – Definitions"
"§ 2106. Member of Congress"
"For the purpose of this title, “Member of Congress” means the Vice President, a member of the Senate or the House of Representatives, a Delegate to the House of Representatives, and the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico."
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If Delegates and Resident Commissioners ARE Members of Congress, there would be NO NEED for this language in ANY legislation [except in the case above, and others like it, where the Vice-President is included].
BUT, let us go further. Just what rights and privileges do Resident Commissioners and Delegates have? Let us see. From the USC, this is what is said about the Resident Commissioner:
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"USC Title 48 - Territories And Insular Possessions, Chapter 4 – Puerto Rico, Sub-Chapter 5 – Resident Commissioner"
"§ 891. Resident Commissioner; Election"
"The qualified electors of Puerto Rico shall choose a Resident Commissioner to the United States at each general election, whose term of office shall be four years from the 3d of January following such general election, and who shall be entitled to receive official recognition as such commissioner by all of the departments of the Government of the United States, upon presentation, through the Department of State, of a certificate of election of the Governor of Puerto Rico."
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Not much there, but let us continue on to Delegate, taking Eleanor Holmes Norton, the current Delegate from the District of Columbia for example:
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"District Of Columbia Delegate Act"
"Public Law 91-405, Title II - District Of Columbia Delegate To The House Of Representatives"
"Sec. 201. This Title May Be Cites As The “District Of Columbia Act, Delegate To The House Of Representatives”"
"SEC. 202. (a) The people of the District of Columbia shall be represented in the House of Representatives by a Delegate, to be known as the “Delegate to the House of Representatives from the District of Columbia”, who shall be elected by the voters of the District of Columbia in accordance with the District of Columbia Election Act. The Delegate shall have a seat in the House of Representatives, with the right of debate, but not of voting, shall have all the privileges granted a Representative by section 6 of Article I of the Constitution, and shall be subject to the same restrictions and regulations as are imposed by law or rules on Representatives. The Delegate shall be elected to serve during each Congress."
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This Act outlines the privileges that the Delegate is entitled to and the restrictions and regulations that the Delegate is to be bound. The term “Congressman” or “Congresswoman” has to be considered as a privilege, because it CERTAINLY IS NOT a restriction or regulation.
The privileges that a Delegate is entitled to are outlined in Article I, Section 6 of the United States Constitution. Let us see what that says:
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"United States Constitution, Article I, Section 6 – Compensation"
"The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. [Note: The preceding words in parentheses were modified by the 27th Amendment.] They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."
"No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office."
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Since the first sentence of the first paragraph was modified by the 27th Amendment, lets see what it says:
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"United States Constitution, 27th Amendment - Limiting Changes To Congressional Pay"
"No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened."
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So, a Delegate is ONLY entitled to ALL OF THE PRIVILEGES granted to a Representative under the United States Constitution, Article I, Section 6 [as modified by the 27th Amendment]. This is the matter of compensation.
FYI: A Resident Commissioner has also [subsequently] been granted these same privileges and is on par with a Delegate.
IN ALL OTHER MATTERS, Delegates and Resident Commissioners are subservient to the will of the CURRENT House of Representatives.
So, the long and the short of it – Delegates and Resident Commissioners ARE NOT Members of the House of Representatives AND they ARE NOT “Congressmen” or “Congresswomen”.
http://www.house.gov/representatives/
That is the official, "Directory of Representatives" published by the US Congress, House of Representatives.
If you scroll down that official page you will find: "District of Columbia", At Large Norton, Eleanor Holmes D 2136 RHOB 202-225-8050 Oversight and Government Reform Transportation and Infrastructure
At the top of the official page it read: "Also referred to as a congressman or congresswoman, each representative is elected to a two-year term serving the people of a specific congressional district."
Thank you for all the Constitutional verbiage, but obviously the House of Representatives, with its wagons full of lawyers, is doing what it damn well pleases. Whether we like it or not they have established the legitimacy of referring to Delegates as Congressman and Congresswoman.
Make my cigar a Cohiba Maduros 5 Genios, aged 5 years. Buy a raincoat first.
"Which puts him on par with ... Wait For It ... the non-voting Delegate from American Samoa ...
"So lets NOT call him “Congressman” ...
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What I was going to post until I found yours.
So, I'll repeat it.
http://www.house.gov/representatives/
That is the official, "Directory of Representatives" published by the US Congress, House of Representatives.
If you scroll down that official page you will find: "District of Columbia", At Large Norton, Eleanor Holmes D 2136 RHOB 202-225-8050 Oversight and Government Reform Transportation and Infrastructure
At the top of the official page it read: "Also referred to as a congressman or congresswoman, each representative is elected to a two-year term serving the people of a specific congressional district."
Thank you for all the Constitutional verbiage, but obviously the House of Representatives, with its wagons full of lawyers, is doing what it damn well pleases. Whether we like it or not they have established the legitimacy of referring to Delegates as Congressman and Congresswoman.
Make my cigar a Cohiba Maduros 5 Genios, aged 5 years. Buy a raincoat first.
*****
Was off-line due to hurricane ...
STILL NO CIGAR ...
AGAIN, PLEASE READ ALL of this ...
First off - lets get rid of the Eleanor Holmes Norton crap:
This is from the Clerk of the House of Representatives web site. The Clerk is the custodian of the official recored of the House of Representatives. This is Norton's listing:
http://clerk.house.gov/member_info/mem_contact_info.aspx?statdis=DC00
From the Clerk:
Eleanor Holmes Norton
District of Columbia-Delegate, Democrat
2136 Rayburn HOB
Washington DC 20515-5100
Phone: (202) 225-8050
ALL of the Delegates AND the Resident Commissioner have their DISTINCTION noted, as opposed to REAL Representatives [Members]:
Chris Van Hollen
Maryland-8th, Democrat
1707 Longworth HOB
Washington DC 20515-2008
Phone: (202) 225-5341
Note that there IS NO DISTINCTION for REAL Representatives.
FYI: If you follow Eleanor Holmes Norton's link at http://www.house.gov/representatives, it will take you to her web site - and we KNOW she has a political agenda in calling herself "Congresswoman". So that isn't valid.
NOW, as for your quote from the top of the directory ...
As Ronnie Reagan used to say, “There you go again”, [cherry-picking]
Let us take your LIMITED quote as being correct – since you placed your faith in the INFALLIBILITY of the Official Member Directory
1. That being said, the Resident Commissioner IS THEN NECESSISARILY EXCLUDED from being called a congressman or congresswoman [due to the 4-year term for the Resident Commissioner vs. the 2-year term for the representative]. IS THAT what you are saying [per your OWN quote] – Delegates are congressmen or congresswomen [due to their 2-year terms], BUT NOT the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico [due to their 4-year terms]? AFTER ALL, you placed ALL of your eggs in one basket based on that statement.
2. Are you saying that the Delegates and the Resident Commissioner represent “congressional districts”? If so, you are saying that you are correct and that the Clerk of the House of Representatives web site AND the Congressional Research Service [the CRS - Congress’ lawyers] are wrong. This supposition is ABSURD. The Clerk says that they represent incorporated and unincorporated territories and the CRS asserts the same when it created a report about the constitutionality od CREATING a Congressional District for the District of Columbia.
What the House of Representatives and Clerk of the House of Representatives web sites REALLY meant to say is the following [ADDITIONAL TEXT IN CAPS]:
“Also referred to as a congressman or congresswoman, each representative is elected to a two-year term serving the people of a specific congressional district FROM ONE OF THE FIFTY STATES. The number of voting representatives in the House is fixed by law at no more than 435, proportionally representing the population of the 50 states. Currently, there are five delegates representing the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. A resident commissioner represents Puerto Rico. THE DELEGATES AND THE RESIDENT COMMISSIONER ARE NOT CONGRESSMEN AND CONGRESSWOMEN, BUT POSSESS MOST OF SAME THE RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES. Learn more about representatives at The House Explained.”
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AS FOR ANALYSIS, let us take a look AT THE FULL QUOTE so it can parsed out sentence by sentence:
“Also referred to as a congressman or congresswoman, each representative is elected to a two-year term serving the people of a specific congressional district. The number of voting representatives in the House is fixed by law at no more than 435, proportionally representing the population of the 50 states. Currently, there are five delegates representing the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. A resident commissioner represents Puerto Rico. Learn more about representatives at The House Explained.”
The first sentence seems to be pretty straight-forward and gives us some clue as to what the House of Representatives means by “congressman or congresswoman”. That is a “representative”, elected for a 2-year term, serving the people of a “specific congressional district”.
The second sentence is of no import, it is purely informational.
The third and fourth sentences state that there are five “delegates representing the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands” and that a “resident commissioner represents Puerto Rico”.
Now, what do the words “representing” [in the third sentence] and “represents” [in the fourth sentence] mean? Do they mean that the “delegates” and the “resident commissioner” are “representatives”, as per the first sentence of the paragraph? Or do the words mean that the “delegates” and “resident commissioner” are the voices of the people that they represent from the incorporated and unincorporated territories?
Not enough information yet. There is a FIFTH sentence that states, “Learn more about representatives at The House Explained.” So, let us go there:
From “The House Explained:
”What is a Representative?”
”Also referred to as a congressman or congresswoman, each representative is elected to a two-year term serving the people of a specific congressional district. Among other duties, representatives introduce bills and resolutions, offer amendments and serve on committees. The number of representatives with full voting rights is 435, a number set by Public Law 62-5 on August 8, 1911, and in effect since 1913. The number of representatives per state is proportionate to population.”
”Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution provides for both the minimum and maximum sizes for the House of Representatives. Currently, there are five delegates representing the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. A resident commissioner represents Puerto Rico. The delegates and resident commissioner possess the same powers as other members of the House, except that they may not vote when the House is meeting as the House of Representatives.”
”To be elected, a representative must be at least 25 years old, a United States citizen for at least seven years and an inhabitant of the state he or she represents.”
”Go to the Clerk’s site for more information about representatives.”
Useful information, hardly anything that I did not already know.
The first sentence of the first paragraph is the same as what you hung your hat on in your post. So no surprise there. The next two sentences are informational only. Same goes for the first three sentences of the 2nd paragraph.
There is, however, the fourth sentence in the second paragraph which states, “The delegates and resident commissioner possess the same powers as other members of the House, except that they may not vote when the House is meeting as the House of Representatives.” The phrase “possess the same powers as other members of the House” SEEMS to put “delegates” and the “resident commissioner” on an equal footing. But, does this mean that they are ALSO entitled to ALL of the rights and privileges granted to members of the House of Representatives under the United States Constitution?
The third paragraph is informational only.
Seems like this is a quandry – but wait, the sentence in the last paragraph says to go to the Clerk of the House of Representative’s web site. So let us go there.
From the Clerk of the House of Representatives web site:
Doesn’t seem to be much of use here – BUT there is a button for “Member FAQs”. SURELY, this will clear up the question if it is clicked.
”1. Who is a Member of Congress?
”A Member of Congress is a person serving in the House of Representatives or the Senate. A Member of the House of Representatives is referred to as Representative or Congressman or Congresswoman, and a Member of the Senate is referred to as Senator.
The first sentence of the paragraph states that, “A Member of Congress is a person serving in the House of Representatives or the Senate.” And, the second sentence says, “A Member of the House of Representatives is referred to as Representative or Congressman or Congresswoman, and a Member of the Senate is referred to as Senator.”
Delegates and Resident Commissioners ALSO serve in the House of Representatives, so it SEEMS that they may be Members of Congress [although this IS NOT definitive as yet]. And, as Members of Congress it SEEMS that they may be Members of the House of Representatives. BUT, what IS a “Member of the House of Representatives”, since it is a REQUIREMENT to be called a Congressman or Congresswoman.
Item 4 answers the question.
”4. Are there requirements to become a Member of the House of Representatives?
”Requirements for membership in the House of Representatives are provided in Article I, Section 2 of the US Constitution:
"No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state in which he shall be chosen."
”These requirements cannot be changed without a constitutional amendment.”
I think that this is pretty much self-explanatory. A Member of the House of Representatives CAN ONLY be an inhabitant of a STATE. Therefore, Delegates and Resident Commissioners are EXCLUDED. AND, having NOT qualified as Members of the House of Representatives, they CANNOT be called Congressmen or Congresswomen, as per Item 1 from this site.
The House of Representatives CANNOT supersede the United States Constitution, WHICH ONLY stipulates the there are TWO chambers in Congress – the House of Representatives and the Senate. Members of the House of Representatives are Representatives and members of the Senate are Senators. Membership in the House of Representatives is limited by statute to 435 – which is the exact total of the Congressional Districts of the states.
From the Clerk of the House of Representatives Kids In The House web site:
Delegates and Resident Commissioners
Like Members, Delegates and Resident Commissioners represent their constituents in the U.S. House of Representatives. Although they are afforded many of the same rights and responsibilities as Members, Delegates and Resident Commissioners are not considered Members of the U.S. House of Representatives and, therefore, are not included in the Member-count of 435.
Additionally:
The Rules of the House of Representatives, which are voted on in the opening session of EACH Congress [as authorized by the United States Constitution] DISTINGUISHES between Members, Delegates, and Resident Commissioners [I have NOT included the cite, but can if you want].
Furthermore:
From the Clerk of the House of Representatives ”Kids In The Hall” web site:
”Delegates, elected every two years, represent incorporated territories.”
[Note: These are regions or districts of the United States not admitted as states, but that have their own legislatures and the potential to become states].
”Resident Commissioners, elected every four years, represent unincorporated territories.”
[Note: These are regions or districts of the United States not admitted as states, but that have their own legislatures and NO potential to become states].
From the Congressional Research Service, which is Congress’ group of lawyers:
Report For Congress
Congressional Redistricting: The Constitutionality of Creating an At-Large District
L. Paige Whitaker
Legislative Attorney
American Law Division
Summary:
Among other provisions, H.R. 1433 (110th Cong.), the District of Columbia House Voting Rights Act of 2007, would expand the U.S. House of Representatives by two Members to a total of 437 Members. The first of these two new seats would be allocated to create a voting Member representing the District of Columbia, and the second seat would be assigned in accordance with 2000 census data and existing federal law, resulting in the addition of a fourth congressional seat in the state of Utah. This report is limited to discussing only the constitutionality of the creation of an at-large congressional district. Based on the authority granted to Congress under the Constitution to regulate congressional elections and relevant Supreme Court precedent, it appears that federal law establishing a temporary at-large congressional district would likely be upheld as constitutional.
Per Congress’ OWN lawyers, the District of Columbia IS NOT a Congressional District.
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NOW, IF YOU CAN PROVIDE SOLID DOCUMENTATION – GO FOR IT. SO FAR, YOU HAVE NOT. I WANT YOU TO REFUTE THE DOCUMENTATION POINT-BY-POINT. GIVING ME THE OFFICIAL MEMBER DIRECTORY DON'T COUNT ...
I really don't disagree with you that delegates are not full voting members, and personally think they should be called Delegates rather than Congressmen or Congresswomen.
But, it is not the fact that matters to the world at large, it is the perception. It's the sizzle not the steak that counts in politics. Congress has chosen to self identify itself, officially, and that is all I have ever claimed they were doing. I've never claimed they were correct in doing so.
Apparently, the official Rules of the House of Representatives aren't good enough for you - where Members are distinguished from Delegates and Resident Commissioners.
This forms the basis of the definition that the official House of Representatives web site states that Members are called Congressmen or Congresswomen But, apparently, you don't care.
You cite the first sentence in the first paragraph of the "official" member directory as your proof:
"Also referred to as a congressman or congresswoman, each representative is elected to a two-year term serving the people of a specific congressional district."
I PROVED to you that a Resident Commissioner CANNOT be a congressman or congresswoman, PER YOUR OWN DEFINITION [FROM THE OFFICIAL MEMBER DIRECTORY] - since a Resident Commissioner serves a four-year term. I CHALLENGED you to show me otherwise - you CAN'T, because NO documentation stating that the Resident Commisssioner's four-year term is an exception.
I PROVED to you that a Delegate or a Resident Commissioner CANNOT be a congressman or congresswoman, PER YOUR OWN DEFINITION [FROM THE OFFICIAL MEMBER DIRECTORY] - since they DO NOT represent a specific congresssional district - since they represent unincorporated or incorporated territories. I CHALLENGED you to show me otherwise - you CAN'T, because NO documentation stating that the Delegate's and Resident Commisssioner's areas are exceptions.
I took YOUR OWN QUOTE from the OFFICIAL MEMBER DIRECTORY and DESTROYED your assertion. Man-up and show me otherwise ...
I agree with your position.
My point has been since the beginning of this discussion is that your government has created an informal title for Delegates. Since they have done that it is correct for the media and anyone else to do the same thing.
Forward all of your well researched, factually based ideas to the Clerk of the House of Representatives. If you can get this informal practice changed, I will buy you any cigar you want.
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