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Has the AGW argument imploded?
Hot Air ^ | August 31, 2011 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 08/31/2011 9:46:04 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Has new research disproven the theoretical models of anthropogenic global warming?  A new study by a European nuclear research group appears to show that the actual prime cause of temperature shifts in the Earth’s climate isn’t carbon dioxide at all, or even the broader range of “greenhouse gases,” but the large ball of fire in the center of the solar system.  Not that this study from CERN has attracted much attention in the media, at least not in the US — but at least Nature reported the results and the implications:

It sounds like a conspiracy theory: ‘cosmic rays’ from deep space might be creating clouds in Earth’s atmosphere and changing the climate. Yet an experiment at CERN, Europe’s high-energy physics laboratory near Geneva, Switzerland, is finding tentative evidence for just that.

Er, it really doesn’t sound like a conspiracy theory.  The notion that the sun heats the planets is rather mundane, or at least it used to be before scientists started claiming that carbon dioxide would superheat the atmosphere.  In fact, AGW skeptics have long pointed to solar cycles as a much more likely explanation for the gradual but uneven warming seen over the last century or so.

To find out, Kirkby and his team are bringing the atmosphere down to Earth in an experiment called Cosmics Leaving Outdoor Droplets (CLOUD). The team fills a custom-built chamber with ultrapure air and chemicals believed to seed clouds: water vapour, sulphur dioxide, ozone and ammonia. They then bombard the chamber with protons from the same accelerator that feeds the Large Hadron Collider, the world’s most powerful particle smasher. As the synthetic cosmic rays stream in, the group carefully samples the artificial atmosphere to see what effect the rays are having.


(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agw; algore; catastrophism; climatechange; corruption; democrats; envirofascism; fruad; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; gorebullwarming; obama
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1 posted on 08/31/2011 9:46:08 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: TigerLikesRooster; landsbaum; Signalman; NormsRevenge; steelyourfaith; Lancey Howard; ...

fyi


2 posted on 08/31/2011 9:47:43 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

The people who are trying to keep the AGW scam alive are the same kind of people who lost money to those Nigerian bank account scams and keep them alive on the net.


3 posted on 08/31/2011 9:52:32 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (If the Tea Party was a bunch of Islamofascist "rebels", would the state run "media" like us too?)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
Global crooks are running this scam!
4 posted on 08/31/2011 9:58:37 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Algore’s head is about to explode.


5 posted on 08/31/2011 10:08:04 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
We used to have only correlation (Sallie Baliunas, et al.) but now we have both correlation and causation.

It's cool to be warm.

6 posted on 08/31/2011 10:17:48 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
We had a Freeper who presented himself as an expert and backed AGW, haven't seen him around in many moons.......Can't remember his Freeper name.

Maybe he imploded also :^)

7 posted on 08/31/2011 10:24:32 PM PDT by The Cajun (Palin, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Rush, Hannity......Nuff said.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
....."experiment called Cosmics Leaving Outdoor Droplets (CLOUD). The team fills a custom-built chamber with ultrapure air and chemicals believed to seed clouds: water vapour, sulphur dioxide, ozone and ammonia..... They then bombard the chamber with protons from the same accelerator that feeds the Large Hadron Collider,...... the world’s most powerful particle smasher. .....As the synthetic cosmic rays stream in, the group carefully samples the artificial atmosphere to see what effect the rays are having.

Would love to hear from some scientist on what exactly in layman's terms this means specifically.

8 posted on 08/31/2011 10:25:11 PM PDT by caww
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Behold, actual science.


9 posted on 08/31/2011 10:25:39 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I read an interview about four years ago with a European physicist who proposed this then. He was about 80 years old and extremely well-respected.

When he published his theory, the eurinal moonbats went after him with a vengence. They started claiming he was an instrument of the "oil industry" trying to discredit their pet theory. The basis for the charge was that he had once done research for the oil companies - back in 1968 or something!

He laughed at them, because he was old and really didn't give a crap what any of them said. He was a scientist with no political agenda, and was shocked that his theory was so controversial and his motives were being questioned.

I wish I could remember more about him or even the magazine where I read the article. It was a science magazine, like Discover or something.

10 posted on 08/31/2011 10:27:51 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: caww

They made a sealed box containing a replication of the earth’s atmosphere at the levels where clouds form. Then they hit this sample atmosphere with a replica of the sun’s output, then measured what happened. No carbon was involved.

They got measured warming in line with global warming. Ergo, the sun causes global warming, not carbon emissions.


11 posted on 08/31/2011 10:30:10 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: dead

Now that I read the article, it may be Jasper Kirkby who was the subject of the article I read back then.


12 posted on 08/31/2011 10:34:49 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Spktyr

Very interesting indeed. I have read abou the Collider and it can sure make one wonder how far they will get with that. It’s a huge thing!

Unfortunately my brother is the science minded one in our family and he understands it all completely. When we spoke about the Carbon” ordeal he flatly stated carbon is not the issue and the environmentalists would be further ahead just planting trees.....he’s pretty livid about the Carbon Tax issue etc. Says it’s all ridiculous. ..and he did mention the sun at that time and how it works on our plaet...but of course soon went over my ability to grasp.


13 posted on 08/31/2011 10:38:34 PM PDT by caww
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To: dead
It was Danish physicist Henrik Svensmark!

I found a link to the article I read, but you have to subscribe to read the whole thing:

Weather from Outer Space

14 posted on 08/31/2011 10:40:54 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: dead
Now I found the interview, in its entirety:

Discover Interview Sun's Shifts May Cause Global Warming

He's not in his eighties, he's in his fifties, but he doesn't really care if his theory is politically unacceptable. He just cares that it is correct.

15 posted on 08/31/2011 10:45:15 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: caww

This is all you need to know: When temperatures on Earth went up... so did the temperatures on Mars and Venus. Pretty sure there’s no carbon-spewing SUVs on those planets.

The Sun is a giant fusion furnace that heats planets at several-light-hours’ distance. When its output fluctuates, everything in the solar system is affected.


16 posted on 08/31/2011 10:46:21 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I also doubt any of these actual scientists have several mansions and fly in private jets all the time like Al Gore and his fellow AGW believing “scientists” do.


17 posted on 08/31/2011 10:46:48 PM PDT by matt04
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
If it wasn't for Global Warming or, if you prefer, Climate Change, there'd be no such thing as The Great Lakes, Niagra Falls, Glacier National Park, Yosemite National Park, etc.

All these beautiful works of art were created by advancing and retreating glaciers. Or, in other words, Climate Change.

18 posted on 08/31/2011 10:48:52 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Didn't these Gorebull warming DUmmies ever pass 6th grade science class? We certainly know how they spent their college years....

"SEVEN YEARS OF COLLEGE DOWN THE DRAIN!"

19 posted on 08/31/2011 11:27:15 PM PDT by RasterMaster ("To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I passed this article around of Facebook today, trying to start a war. My conservative associates jumped on merrily. The others ... not so much.

Even among the liberals, a dawning realization is hitting. They're starting to understand that AGW is a faith among them, not a science. They know it's true, but they can't prove it. Doesn't make them any less devout, but it makes them increasingly nervous to try and throw down with the 'science is settled' line like they used to. It's anything but.

The only thing that's for sure is their devotion to the church of Gaia. Which is fine, but they're learning that scaring people with crap research is a losing proselytization technique.

20 posted on 08/31/2011 11:29:39 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: Paleo Conservative

“Algore’s head is about to explode.”

This, too, is caused by cosmic rays. The Fantastic Four, however, were transformed by greenhouse gasses.


21 posted on 08/31/2011 11:30:09 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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interesting.


22 posted on 08/31/2011 11:38:17 PM PDT by Rick_Michael (Obama Debt-Laden)
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To: caww

They have proven that gamma rays entering a replicated Earth atmosphere can provide the energy required to create the nucleus for water condensation to occur. Basically turning water vapor (gas) into liquid water (clouds). So gamma rays must affect the density of clouds in the Earth atmosphere. So when the Earth receives more gamma rays, we have more clouds created. More clouds cool the Earth. Less clouds warm the Earth. The gamma rays are emitted by sources outside our solar system. The sun shields the Earth from gamma rays by the solar wind and its magnetic field. When the sun is less active, more gamma rays enter the Earth’s atmosphere.


23 posted on 08/31/2011 11:41:47 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: justa-hairyape

So why can’t they use this knowledge for rain on places like Texas now...and wherever drought cripples the land?


24 posted on 08/31/2011 11:45:46 PM PDT by caww
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To: Spktyr

“When its output fluctuates, everything in the solar system is affected.”

Well, that’s not fair. We need to organize for solar justice.


25 posted on 08/31/2011 11:46:22 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

C’mon, Ernest! You know the big bucks can’t be made from that whole “sun” thing. We have to stick with the “man made” meme or poor Al will feel bad and any number of “green” industries will collapse overnight! Have you no pity? ;-)


26 posted on 08/31/2011 11:46:42 PM PDT by JennysCool (My hypocrisy goes only so far)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Michael Crichton’s “State of Fear” 2004, thoroughly destroyed the AGW Fantasy.


27 posted on 08/31/2011 11:48:39 PM PDT by matthew fuller (If America is to survive, the national socialist democrat (NAZI) party must be destroyed.)
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To: Spktyr

It’s amazing, really, how the sun affects everything about our planet....no wonder God set it there... and it does “RULE the day.”


28 posted on 08/31/2011 11:51:01 PM PDT by caww
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To: matthew fuller

Yes! One of Chrichton’s many legacies!


29 posted on 08/31/2011 11:52:42 PM PDT by JennysCool (My hypocrisy goes only so far)
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To: dead

The global warming crowd reminds me of the trade unions. If you threaten their money machine they’ll come after you with a vengeance. With billions in grants at stake they don’t care who they destroy.


30 posted on 08/31/2011 11:53:31 PM PDT by Reagan is King
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Al Gore was just reading this article on TV. After several moments of careful, scientific consideration, he announced that the only safe course of action was to, "Nuke the sun. Nuke it like it owes us money. After we nuke the crap out of it, wait 10 minutes, then nuke it again."

Kinda harsh, but I think, deep down, we all know the sun has it coming...

31 posted on 08/31/2011 11:56:04 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: JennysCool

I think that it was so cool that he stated that when Russia imploded, a new boogeyman was required. Voila, AGW!


32 posted on 08/31/2011 11:57:58 PM PDT by matthew fuller (If America is to survive, the national socialist democrat (NAZI) party must be destroyed.)
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To: matthew fuller

Yup. The insidious folk who make money from fear ALWAYS need a new monster.


33 posted on 09/01/2011 12:37:21 AM PDT by JennysCool (My hypocrisy goes only so far)
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To: The Cajun
We had a Freeper who presented himself as an expert and backed AGW, haven't seen him around in many moons.......Can't remember his Freeper name.

Would that be Cogitator? He still posts, but only occasionally. You can imagine that he was met with a lot of opposition. His posts were excellent however, and a good balance against the prevailing "wisdom" here on FR. He was good at keeping the skeptics honest.

34 posted on 09/01/2011 12:42:36 AM PDT by Paradox (Obnoxious, Bumbling, Absurd, Maladroit, Assinine)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I just saw a story about this on The 700 Club. I know that some on this board are critical of Pat Robertson and he does sometime say some "wacko" things, but I started watching his program years ago because of their news reports. They definitely cover news that you will not see on any other channel.
35 posted on 09/01/2011 12:52:43 AM PDT by srmorton (Deut. 30 19: "..I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;therefore choose life..")
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
This book describes the idea and how it might work:

Written for the layman and highly recommended.

36 posted on 09/01/2011 1:20:18 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: caww
It takes a lot of energy to create gamma rays and they are dangerous. Concerning the creation of rain - There are two primary factors. First you have to get water into the atmosphere in the form of water vapor (gas). That primarily occurs over the worlds oceans via evaporation. The rate of evaporation is determined by temperature, wind speed and the density of water vapor in the atmosphere (how much water vapor the atmosphere is already holding).

The second primary factor involves converting that water gas (water vapor) into liquid water (cloud moisture). Now gamma rays help with the conversion of vapor to water. The more water vapor in the atmosphere, the more liquid water can be converted. Basically in a high gamma ray environment the atmosphere will have less water vapor and more water moisture.

In a nutshell - Your normal Texas rain was actually deposited in the Western Mountain ranges this year.

37 posted on 09/01/2011 1:22:18 AM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Paradox
He was good at keeping the skeptics honest.

Some of us skeptics have always been honest. That was never the problem. Skeptics are not the ones who were caught red handed committing fraud.

Now keeping us skeptics correct is a noble and wise endeavor.

38 posted on 09/01/2011 1:28:53 AM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Spktyr
Behold, actual science.

Yeah, with a real conclusion drawn directly from a real experiment that yielded real data.

Sad that it has to be smuggled in somewhat, but it still got through. The system's been bent, but it's not broken.

As yet, anyhoo.

39 posted on 09/01/2011 3:35:25 AM PDT by danielmryan
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To: Steel Wolf
They're starting to understand that AGW is a faith among them, not a science. They know it's true, but they can't prove it.

You might be seeing a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. Watch to see if any of them become embarrassed over their earlier enthusiasm. If so, I suggest cultivating it. When the AGW believers hit that tipping point, AGW will fade into the sunlight like goldfish swallowing (1930s) or stuffing as many people as you can in a phone booth (1960s?)

40 posted on 09/01/2011 3:41:34 AM PDT by danielmryan
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Precisely. It’s a huge international con. The UN is, if not at the heart of it, the foremost tool of the cons.


41 posted on 09/01/2011 3:53:14 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Anyone who has studied the sunspot cycle knows that the higher the sunspot count, the warmer the temperature on Earth. Does anyone remember the famous Maunder Minimum, when Earth went into a mini-Ice Age because the Sun had essentially very little sunspots between 1645 and 1715?
42 posted on 09/01/2011 4:03:26 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: justa-hairyape

Good synopsis.


43 posted on 09/01/2011 4:12:00 AM PDT by meatloaf (It's time to push back against out of control government.)
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To: RayChuang88
Does anyone remember the famous Maunder Minimum, when Earth went into a mini-Ice Age because the Sun had essentially very little sunspots between 1645 and 1715?

I think most FReepers are not old enough to remember that.

44 posted on 09/01/2011 4:12:19 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I built a cloud chamber as my 9th grade science project. Over 50 years ago. Got the plans from Scientific Experimenter magazine. Used Radium from an old watch hand as a “ray” source. Didn’t have enough time to build my own Small Hadron Collider! Cloud chambers have been around a long time.


45 posted on 09/01/2011 4:13:58 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
AGW was never tested by any "research" worthy of the name.

The implied null hypothesis - absent anthropogenic carbon, the planet's climate (not sure a planet can have a climate, but nevermind) - the planet's climate would be invariant, is nonsense.

All lines of inquiry - oceanographic, geologic, climatologic, archaeological, paleontologic - ALL measure HUGE, ENORMOUS, AND NEARLY CONSTANT CHANGE.

So - the minor variations observed in the instrumental period (1850-2011) DO NOT REQUIRE EXPLANATION.

They may have an explanation, and it is possible that the explanation involves humans, but, given the massive data set on prehistoric changes, that is the least likely explanation and therefore validation would require lots and lots of experimental (NOT computer modeled) data, which does not exist.

It's over.

46 posted on 09/01/2011 4:36:09 AM PDT by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: All

lies often never hold-up to scrutiny.


47 posted on 09/01/2011 4:42:40 AM PDT by newnhdad
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To: exDemMom
I think most FReepers are not old enough to remember that.

True that is, but some of us Freepers had surname ancestors that arrived to the New World during the Maunder Minimum. Perhaps that may have been what drove them further south. Scotland was probably very cold back then. Coincidentally, Ireland has just had one of its coldest summers ever.

48 posted on 09/01/2011 4:59:40 AM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Bump


49 posted on 09/01/2011 5:04:31 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

It imploded the moment we found notes in their code about how they were skewing the data reporting in order to introduce a confirmation bias.


50 posted on 09/01/2011 5:09:34 AM PDT by icanhasbailout
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