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Gays aren't "born that way" -- a lesbian says so
RenewAmerica.com ^ | Sept. 14, 2011 | Bryan Fischer

Posted on 09/14/2011 1:00:46 PM PDT by ReformationFan

In an astonishing column published in the winger-left publication, "The Atlantic," openly "queer woman" (her words) Lindsay Miller says flatly, "In direct opposition to both the mainstream gay movement and Lady Gaga, I would like to state for the record that I was not born this way."

Tellingly, she argues that saying people are "born this way" is a form of condescension, and she resents it mightily. "I get frustrated with the veiled condescension of straight people who believe that queers 'can't help it,' and thus should be treated with tolerance and pity."

I've got news for Ms. Miller — it's not straights saying that you can't help it, it is your co-belligerents in the homosexual movement. In the pro-family movement, we entirely agree with you that sexual behavior in the end is always a matter of choice. We have no condescension towards you in the least — we regard you as men and women made in the image of God who are perfectly capable of making responsible and mature decisions regarding your sexuality.

Ms. Miller concludes her piece by saying, "The life I have now is not something I ended up with because I had no other options. Make no mistake — it's a life I chose."

Homosexual activists must be seething at this point, since Ms. Miller has blown their entire civil rights argument — we're just like blacks — to smithereens. Blacks did not choose to be black. Race is immutable, assigned at birth. But homosexuality is not immutable and it is not fixed at birth. Ms. Miller has chosen lesbianism, which means she is perfectly capable of choosing sexual normalcy if she becomes so inclined.

Ms. Miller confirms what Colin Powell said long ago, that the comparison between race and sexual preference is "convenient but invalid."

It's time to send the "born that way" myth to the graveyard of misbegotten ideas, buried in the plot next to the myth that the sun revolves around the earth.

And we don't just need to take Lindsay Miller's word for it. Psychiatrists William Byne and Bruce Parsons wrote in Archives of General Psychiatry (March 1993) that, "Critical review shows the evidence favoring a biologic theory to be lacking ... In fact, the current trend may be to underrate the explanatory power of extant psychosocial models." In other words, nurture plays a greater role in sexual preference than homosexual activists want you to believe.

As Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council points out, rigorous studies of identical twins have now made it impossible to argue seriously for the theory of genetic determination. If homosexuality were fixed at birth, as the misguided thinking of homosexual activists goes, then if one twin is homosexual, the other should be as well. The "concordance rate" should be 100%.

But it's not. One early proponent of the "born that way" thesis, Michael Bailey, conducted a study on a large sample of Australian twins and discovered to his chagrin that the concordance rate was just 11%.

Peter Bearman and Hannah Bruckner, researchers from Columbia and Yale, looked at data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health and found concordance rates of just 6.7% for male and 5.3% for female identical twins.

They determined that social environment was of far greater significance, and their research led them to reject "genetic influence independent of social context" as an explanation for homosexuality. They concluded, "..[O]ur results support the hypothesis that less gendered socialization in early childhood and preadolescence shapes subsequent same-sex romantic preferences."

As Sprigg observes, "If it was not clear in the 1990's, it certainly is now — no one is 'born gay.'"

The implications, of course, of this simple truth are far-reaching. If homosexual behavior is a choice, then our public policy can freely be shaped by an honest look at whether this behavioral choice is healthy and should be encouraged or unhealthy and dangerous and consequently discouraged.

The elevated health risks associated with homosexuality are by now so well established that not even homosexuals pretend otherwise. The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association warns that active homosexuals are at elevated risks of HIV/AIDS, substance and alcohol abuse, depression and anxiety, hepatitis, a whole range of STDs such as syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, pubic lice, Human Papilloma Virus, and anal papilloma, and prostate, testicular and colon cancer.

Bottom line: this is not behavior that any rational society should condone, endorse, subsidize, reward, promote or sanction in domestic policy or in the marketplace. It's a choice, and a bad one at that. It's long past time for our culture to say a simple and direct "No" to homosexuality and the homosexual agenda.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bryanfischer; chlamydia; choice; coloncancer; fischer; gonorrhea; homosexualagenda; lindsaymiller; prochoice; syphilis; theatlantic
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1 posted on 09/14/2011 1:00:53 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Well! I’m offended she calls herself “a queer”!
*sarcasm in neutral, world just too weird to take anymore*


2 posted on 09/14/2011 1:06:44 PM PDT by TheConservativeParty (PALIN 45 -The cure for "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Sarah Palin 2012 "Not For Sale!")
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To: ReformationFan

So, the argument here is that human beings are indeed sentient beings capable of making choices on how they wish to comport themselves through life. How novel.


3 posted on 09/14/2011 1:10:50 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
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To: ReformationFan

The twins data is d_mning - literally.


4 posted on 09/14/2011 1:16:56 PM PDT by throwback ( The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid)
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To: ReformationFan
Make no mistake — it's a life I chose

Anybody with a brain (which lets out most Liberals) knows this is the case.

"I was born this way" is just an excuse for abnormal and abhorrent behavior.

5 posted on 09/14/2011 1:18:09 PM PDT by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: ReformationFan

“The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association warns that active homosexuals are at elevated risks of HIV/AIDS, substance and alcohol abuse, depression and anxiety, hepatitis, a whole range of STDs such as syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, pubic lice, Human Papilloma Virus, and anal papilloma, and prostate, testicular and colon cancer”.

...this could be the reason that so many people don’t want any contact with with you folks!!


6 posted on 09/14/2011 1:18:35 PM PDT by albie
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To: albie

amen..


7 posted on 09/14/2011 1:22:07 PM PDT by brivette
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To: ReformationFan

The logical extension of “Gays are born that way” is that “People who engage in beastiality are born that way too” And “Pedophiles are born that way.” Even “Rapists are born that way” and why not “Drug users are born that way and “Thieves are born that way.”

Indeed Pedophiles are now pushing the APA to classify their condition as a “sexual orientation” the same way that the gays did.

A behavior is not justified by the number of people who choose it.

Cannibalism is not justified even though entire cultures have embraced it. We were not wrong to push our Christian values on such cultures.

Pedophilia and homosexual behavior is not justified no matter how many Hollywood moguls and congressmen embrace it.


8 posted on 09/14/2011 1:24:52 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: ReformationFan

“Our public policy can freely be shaped by an honest look” - not as long as any Democrat is involved. Their first thought is always “How can I get votes and money from these suckers?”


9 posted on 09/14/2011 1:27:32 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: albie

You left out bedbugs.

They are no more born homosexuals than liberals are born liberal.

They’re all created in experimental labs.


10 posted on 09/14/2011 1:28:26 PM PDT by donhunt (Certified and proud "Son of a Bitch".)
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To: ReformationFan
Good article that restates what many of us have been saying for years: that homosexual behavior is a choice, not a biological imperative. The 'gay community' has persuaded politicians and judges to treat their sexual perversions as an inherent trait that cannot be changed and so, deserves some kind of special dispensation and laws elevating any harm done to someone practicing homosexual behavior to a 'hate crime', with harsher penalties, thus elevating a sexual perversion to special status in the eyes of the law, which is offensive to many Americans. The homosexual advocates have made 'gay marriage' their Holy Grail and that is becoming their Waterloo....a bridge too far, as it were. This overreaching is generating a backlash and with this lesbian woman stating the obvious in a left-wing national magazine (The Atlantic), the tide may well be starting to turn against the near-celebration of homosexual behavior by liberal politicians, judges and 'celebrities. Its about time sanity reemerged on this issue.
11 posted on 09/14/2011 1:35:50 PM PDT by Jim Scott ( "Game On!" - Sarah Palin)
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To: ReformationFan

I believe Gays ARE born that way. I recall, being in the 2nd or 3rd grade a few boys who were effeminate, hung around with girls, who were into dancing and not baseball, and who later grew up to be full-fledged homos.

I can’t buy that 7 and 8 year old boys chose to act effeminately at such an early age. They were genetically predisposed to be that way.


12 posted on 09/14/2011 1:36:06 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: ReformationFan

Then they know what to do and schools don’t need to teach it.


13 posted on 09/14/2011 1:36:30 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Democrats are violent. Prisons are overflowing with democrats convicted of violent crimes.)
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To: ReformationFan

Show my a 3 year old homosexual. Boom, roasted!


14 posted on 09/14/2011 1:38:16 PM PDT by struggle
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To: ReformationFan

Show me a 3 year old homosexual. Boom, roasted!


15 posted on 09/14/2011 1:38:31 PM PDT by struggle
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To: ReformationFan

bkmk


16 posted on 09/14/2011 1:42:41 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: grobdriver

My wife and I were just talking about this subject two days ago. My female cousin, same age as me, was a normal teenage girl in high school. She had lots of boy friends, went on dates, and spent lots of time talking to boys on the phone. She was pretty and she was happy. I did lose close contact with her after high school, but I know how her life went after that. She was married which ended in divorce. She became depressed and eventually moved into some type of communal living arrangement with other women somewhere in New England. She announced she was gay. She committed suicide. Was she born gay? I don’t believe it for a moment. She was weakened by events in life. She fell under the influence of bad people. Her life became even more messed up and ended badly.


17 posted on 09/14/2011 1:45:26 PM PDT by Sam Clements
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To: Signalman

My lib SIL worked to feminize her boys from birth.
She encouraged “girly’ things, got them tea sets and Fisher Price kitchens. She encourage them to be girls at every turn.

It’s nurture and not nature, my friend.
If it was nature than identical twins would always be of the same sexual persuasion.


18 posted on 09/14/2011 1:46:30 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice)
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To: ReformationFan

I think its can be either - genetic or cultural.

Look at prior societies in which homosexuality was pretty much common. The ancient Greeks, the Turks, the Imperial Romans, etc. It COULDN’T have been genetic in those societies as it was rare BEFORE it became common and became rare afterwards - the cultural factor here.

On the other hand, we ALL know people we had in elementary school and high school who were, “different”. Some studies have been done to indicate there ARE differences in brain wave patterns of SOME homosexuals.


19 posted on 09/14/2011 1:47:15 PM PDT by ZULU (ANYBODY but Obama)
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To: ReformationFan
As Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council points out, rigorous studies of identical twins have now made it impossible to argue seriously for the theory of genetic determination. If homosexuality were fixed at birth, as the misguided thinking of homosexual activists goes, then if one twin is homosexual, the other should be as well. The "concordance rate" should be 100%.

"Born that way" does not necessarily equate to genetic inheritance.

Increasing evidence indicates that many of the subtle differences between people are created by how the intra-uterine environment expresses the genetic code of the DNA.

IOW, the DNA is the blueprint, but as we all know blueprints can be followed well or poorly by the actual builders. Many if not most birth defects are of this type, and it is likely many other "inborn" differences are too.

Personally I believe some though not all homosexuals are born with a strong tendency in that direction, as a result probably of hormonal fluctuations in the mother at critical points in the formation of the nervous system.

Which would make such tendency a form of birth defect, if you like. Which ought to really piss off the gay rights people.

20 posted on 09/14/2011 1:48:27 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Signalman
I believe Gays ARE born that way.

IMO, some are. I remember some queer telling me that nobody in his right mind would choose that lifestyle, considering all the hate and disgust heaped upon its practitioners. When you seen people in high positions who have much to lose soliciting sex in a public restroom, for instance, that's telling me the inborn sexual preferences are kicking in.

21 posted on 09/14/2011 1:48:51 PM PDT by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: DannyTN; little jeremiah; wagglebee; scripter
Indeed Pedophiles are now pushing the APA to classify their condition as a “sexual orientation” the same way that the gays did.

Yes, the entire gay movement is a lie and a con. And the straight community pays for it in millions of lives defaced, devalued, and foreshortened by homosexuals who knowingly and opportunistically approach and sexualize inexperienced straight kids -- which accounts for at least half of homosexual men, and most of the lesbian population.

Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen knew it when they wrote their snarky, snickering "Overhauling Straight America" in The Guide, the series of articles that later became After the Ball; and Evan Wolfson, formerly of Lambda Legal, knew it every time he stood up in open court with a straight face to argue the "essentialist" civil-rights-movement drivel, to get courts to agree with him and gavel down the People of the United States.

22 posted on 09/14/2011 1:50:34 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: throwback

There is a genetic predisposition, though, because identical twins are more likely to be of the same sexual orientation than fraternal ones. The genetic component is not the main factor, though, and even less so for women than men.


23 posted on 09/14/2011 1:50:42 PM PDT by Dick Holmes
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To: Signalman

God states very clearly that homosexuality is a sin, wrong and an abomination. He rejects this perverted lifestyle choice. (see Sodom and Gomorrah)

God disagrees with your insane belief.


24 posted on 09/14/2011 1:53:28 PM PDT by newfreep (I am a "terrorist". I am Sarah Palin!)
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To: Oatka
IMO, some are.

Researchers from the 1960's who worked on "reparative therapy" ideas with homosexuals (men, most usually), would agree with you, that in about 30% of cases, male homosexuals appear to be "hard-wired" or "essentially" or "biologically" oriented.

Bieber and others who had done such research were frozen out after the homosexual coup d'etat in the mental-health profession in 1972-3, and their work was "officially" discredited -- politically.

Even 10 years ago, however, a substantial plurality, around 40%, of mental-health professionals were still of the opinion, after 30 years of campaigning, propagandization, and dragooning of outliers, that psychological factors were determinant in homosexuality, overwhelmingly so in lesbianism.

25 posted on 09/14/2011 1:57:39 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Signalman
I can’t buy that 7 and 8 year old boys chose to act effeminately at such an early age. They were genetically predisposed to be that way.

Do you have knowledge of their home life?

Who did their parent(s) hang with?

Unless you personally know about their family life style you can only assume that they were "born that way".

26 posted on 09/14/2011 2:00:14 PM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages.)
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To: Signalman

My observation is that male gays are identified with domineering mothers who don’t nurture or value male traits in their boys, and often with the lack of a strong male role model in their lives. As these boys grow they don’t know how to be boys. At first, while younger, they may prefer to play with girls. They may feel intimidated by normal boys. Later they see other boys like themselves and tend to identify and socialize with them. By this time they may feel intimidated by girls. Have you noticed that there seems to be more male gays than there was years ago? It is probably because more boys are raised in the manner described above. No, male gays are not born that way. I do not favor discrimination or hatred against self identified gays. However, being gay is just a behavior exhibited by some people and is not a separate category of humans requiring special status in our laws, imo.


27 posted on 09/14/2011 2:01:00 PM PDT by Sam Clements
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To: SoldierDad

It’s a product of Marxist thought and presuppositions to believe that they are “born that way”.

Marxist materialism assumes that humans and their behaviors are nothing more than matter in motion and that they really have no choice but to react in specific ways to given inputs.

The left has intentionally suppressed data from studies showing that homosexual tendencies among those sexually abused as children and those raised in same-sex households are much higher than in the general population.


28 posted on 09/14/2011 2:04:12 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: ReformationFan

It’s not exactly nuture.. It’s recruitment.


29 posted on 09/14/2011 2:06:12 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: ZULU; All

“Look at prior societies in which homosexuality was pretty much common. The ancient Greeks, the Turks, the Imperial Romans, etc. It COULDN’T have been genetic in those societies as it was rare BEFORE it became common and became rare afterwards - the cultural factor here.”

My world view is that man is a fallen, sinful creature. Left unchecked to his own devices he will sink to low levels of degeneration - as was the case with Romans and Greeks. As children of Adam, we are ALL born with a degenerate nature that makes us prone to sin and perversion. Does that give us an excuse to do so...no it does not.


30 posted on 09/14/2011 2:07:21 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: newfreep

People are born with various propensities to sin,
be it covetousness, thievery, dishonesty, or sexual depravity.

It is still the responsibility of the individual to reject or indulge their sin nature.


31 posted on 09/14/2011 2:08:47 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Sola Veritas; All

9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10. nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11


32 posted on 09/14/2011 2:11:51 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: MrB

It is not outside the realm of possibility that an individual is born with a predisposition towards some type of behavior or development of some malady. But, a blanket assumption that when a person is born their genetic code determines all aspects of human behavior is preposterous. This ideology completely disregards that human beings are capable of self-determination. Try proposing this to a liberal, though.


33 posted on 09/14/2011 2:13:32 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
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To: ReformationFan

IIRC, Tammy Bruce says the same thing. I believe I read she said she was a lesbian “by choice”.


34 posted on 09/14/2011 2:19:18 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: newfreep

While I don’t reject your statement, re-read exodus please, it was not just the sexually debauchery that brought about their harsh but just judgement. They were unjust in every aspect of society. If having imoral consentual carnal knowlegde were enough for sodom and gomorah how much more should the punishment be for us.


35 posted on 09/14/2011 2:32:46 PM PDT by qman (If you are prepared you can't be surprised.)
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To: ReformationFan
if biology plays no part, why is it so easy to spot gay people.... even those who are supposedly in the closet? I worked for an airline where a lot of gay people worked. Sure seemed like most of them were biologically different.

Perhaps its mostly women that choose to be lesbian. From life experiences I tend to think that most women are somewhat bisexual. So perhaps for them, it is more of a choice which way they go.
36 posted on 09/14/2011 2:34:22 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: qman

As I stated, God was very clear in BOTH the Old and New testaments - homosexuality is an abomination.

I defer to Him and His judgement.


37 posted on 09/14/2011 2:40:31 PM PDT by newfreep (I am a "terrorist". I am Sarah Palin!)
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To: Oatka
When you seen people in high positions who have much to lose soliciting sex in a public restroom, for instance, that's telling me the inborn sexual preferences are kicking in.

Not necessarily. Many people in high positions have personality problems. Or overly developed egos or whatever you wish to label it. They usually have the It's All About Me! attitude and gravitate toward the danger zone. Same as with many gays. They crave attention and being a flaming in your face queen gets them attention. There's a stigma against gays so that's the danger zone they seek out. Being in a straight relationship doesn't get them the emotional high or the attention because that's considered the norm.

38 posted on 09/14/2011 2:42:17 PM PDT by bgill (There, happy now?)
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To: Oatka
When you seen people in high positions who have much to lose soliciting sex in a public restroom, for instance, that's telling me the inborn sexual preferences are kicking in.

Or maybe they're just debauched perverts who think they can get away with it.

Like a certain former president and a certain former congressman from NY-9.

39 posted on 09/14/2011 2:54:26 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: ReformationFan

I’ve never cared whether they were born that way or not. Being born a certain way or another doesn’t automatically make one normal.


40 posted on 09/14/2011 2:58:37 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: DannyTN

The “Born that way” argument has always been fallacious as your post #8 illustrates.


41 posted on 09/14/2011 3:00:45 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: MrB

Bingo.


42 posted on 09/14/2011 3:06:02 PM PDT by karnage
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To: throwback

I’m fairly familiar with that data but can you post a link. I need concrete facts and a study name as I am in a continued and heated debate with a doctor over this issue.

A doctor - an actual medical doctor who thinks homosexuals are ‘ born this way ‘. A person who must work with facts and proof on a daily basis.


43 posted on 09/14/2011 3:20:15 PM PDT by warsaw44
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To: ReformationFan

They only claim to be “born that way” so they can be a victim group like blacks. It’s a “civil rights” thing.

Even the now-discredited study tha tis the basis for that didn’t really comp0letely support them. It tested sets of identical twins, at least one of whom was homosexual. It found that in 50 percent of the cases, the other one was too.

But if they’re born that way and identical twins are identical, tehn shouldn’t that number be 100 percent?

There may be a genetic predisposition, as there may be for such conditions as alcoholism, but that doesn’t mean that it necessarily plays out that way.


44 posted on 09/14/2011 3:21:51 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: ReformationFan

Probably at some early time in life, a switch is flipped by some external event. How to identify that time window, though, without affecting it, is the tricky part. Sort of like watching a photon and getting around the Uncertainty Principle.


45 posted on 09/14/2011 3:21:56 PM PDT by Lady Lucky (Heavy the head that wears the tiara.)
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To: Jim Scott
homosexual behavior is a choice, not a biological imperative.

Precisely. Even if you're "born that way", you can choose to engage in the behavior or not.

46 posted on 09/14/2011 3:23:20 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: ReformationFan

It’s like duck imprinting. There’s a sensitive period in early life when they get “programmed.”


47 posted on 09/14/2011 3:26:59 PM PDT by Lady Lucky (Heavy the head that wears the tiara.)
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To: TBP

“They only claim to be “born that way” so they can be a victim group like blacks. It’s a “civil rights” thing.”

Exactly. I don’t think most blacks, no matter who liberal they are, appreciate this analogy. Even if such a thing can be proven, it would be more like a disability or handicap than a race or an ethnicity.


48 posted on 09/14/2011 3:29:11 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Rush once pointed out that if they ever found teh “gay gene”, gays would almost instantly become conservatives, as many people would start aborting their unborn gay children.


49 posted on 09/14/2011 3:33:44 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: albie; ReformationFan
The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association warns that active homosexuals are at elevated risks of HIV/AIDS, substance and alcohol abuse, depression and anxiety, hepatitis, a whole range of STDs such as syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, pubic lice, Human Papilloma Virus, and anal papilloma, and prostate, testicular and colon cancer”.

I forgot again. Why aren't they allowed to donate blood?

50 posted on 09/14/2011 3:37:28 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear (No More RINOs!!!)
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