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Democrat: Gov't Has No Contractual Obligation to Pay Social Security Benefits
Cybercast News Service ^ | 9/14/11 | Matt Cover

Posted on 09/14/2011 2:38:29 PM PDT by Nachum

Blue Dog Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.) said that most Americans do not understand that federal entitlements are not “bank account” programs that hold their money, adding that Social Security is not even a legal guarantee -- "Legally, they're not even promises." Cooper, asked about potential reforms to Medicare and Medicaid, said that the core problem was that the public does not understand the true nature of entitlements. “Many Americans don’t really realize that Medicare is a government program,” Cooper said at a press conference with fellow Blue Dogs on Wednesday.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Tennessee
KEYWORDS: biggovernment; contractual; democrat; democrats; entitlements; entitlementsponzi; fdrtoldscotusssatax; future75percentss; govt; imoldgimmegimmegimme; jimcooper; liberalfascism; medicare; obligation; pansyscheme; perry; ponzi; ponzientitlements; ponzischeme; seniors4fascism; seniors4socialism; seniors4tyranny; socialism; socialistmedicine; socialsecurity; soldasinsurance; tennessee; welfare4seniors
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1 posted on 09/14/2011 2:38:33 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Sounds like a ... wait for it ... PONZI scheme. however saying out loud is contraindicated if you’re running for office.


2 posted on 09/14/2011 2:41:14 PM PDT by MetaThought
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To: Nachum

He is correct; it is rare to hear a democrat tell the truth.


3 posted on 09/14/2011 2:41:22 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (Proud to be a small monthly donor.)
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To: Nachum

He’s 100% correct. Soc Security is a law.It’s been changed over the years,for increased benefits, and ret ages have also been raised. Any Congress and POTUS can end SS with one enactment and signature.


4 posted on 09/14/2011 2:43:45 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (IACTA ALEA EST!!!)
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To: Nachum

It’s true. The government has successfully argued as much before the Supreme Court.

Social Security is nothing but another tax. There is no constitutional obligation on the government’s part to pay you anything.

People need to understand this. The members of my generation will likely never see a dime of SS.


5 posted on 09/14/2011 2:45:04 PM PDT by DarrellZero
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To: Repeal The 17th

Fine I opt to not pay SS Tax any longer. : )


6 posted on 09/14/2011 2:45:18 PM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: Repeal The 17th

Fine I opt to not pay SS Tax any longer. : )


7 posted on 09/14/2011 2:45:26 PM PDT by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: Nachum

if it was legally binding, we would be instantly broke


8 posted on 09/14/2011 2:45:42 PM PDT by ari-freedom (It's time for Obama to get a downgrade.)
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To: Nachum

Well then, if the government doesn’t have to pay benefits, then I don’t have to pay into SS. Sure would give me extra money in my pocket. The other thing that sticks in my craw is that we have to wait til 65 to ALL of OUR MONEY. If you apply at 62 you only get 75%. What part of MY MONEY aren’t they clear on? Oh, and while we’re at it, maybe we, the taxpayers, can decide which Congress critter’s salary and benefits we pay for. Some of the Democrat staffers don’t like to take my call if I’m from out of their boss’ district. Well, then why am I paying for him or her?


9 posted on 09/14/2011 2:47:34 PM PDT by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
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To: Nachum

I strongly suggest that the Congressman is in error.

Since SS and Medicare have mandatory amounts deducted from wages, that obligates the Government agency to the provisions of the social security and medicare statutes.

I doubt any of the provisions have a rider or provision that exempts the US Government from paying out those benefits when an individual meets the requirements.


10 posted on 09/14/2011 2:47:55 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Nachum
in other words... It's just ANOTHER TAX then!!!
11 posted on 09/14/2011 2:51:09 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: TomGuy
I strongly suggest that the Congressman is in error.

The Congress critter is not.

I suggest you read up on Fleming v. Nestor.

12 posted on 09/14/2011 2:51:50 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: Nachum

It’s gonna take an awful lot of stout rope to rectify this situation. Steal money from both me and my employers for the last fifty years and then tell me they have no obligation to pay me back?
Have the lumber and nails delivered down there on the mall. We’re having a party!!


13 posted on 09/14/2011 2:52:45 PM PDT by beelzepug ("Blind obedience to arbitrary rules is a sign of mental illness")
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To: Nachum

Social Security should be phased out.


14 posted on 09/14/2011 2:53:09 PM PDT by CORedneck
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To: Nachum

Something in the back of my mind tells me this guy is going to regret saying this.


15 posted on 09/14/2011 2:53:37 PM PDT by Ronin (Obamanation has replaced Bizarroworld as the most twisted place in the universe.)
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To: Nachum

The law giveth and the law taketh away.


16 posted on 09/14/2011 2:53:55 PM PDT by Lady Lucky (Heavy the head that wears the tiara.)
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To: Nachum
And the same is true for any government pension, federal and local.

ML/NJ

17 posted on 09/14/2011 2:54:10 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: oneamericanvoice
Oh, and while we’re at it, maybe we, the taxpayers, can decide which Congress critter’s salary and benefits we pay for.

The Dems just passed legislation that gives corporate employees MORE direct input into the amount of pay and benefits that the management/CEO/board can make.

What do you bet they would NOT vote to give us, the American taxpaying employees, the same rights about their pay and benefits!
18 posted on 09/14/2011 2:54:40 PM PDT by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: Nachum

The act of a president declaring he is not going to pay SS benefits as defined by the current law, is equivalent to declareing his own death warrant.


19 posted on 09/14/2011 2:55:04 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Rats carry plague)
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To: TomGuy
Since SS and Medicare have mandatory amounts deducted from wages, that obligates the Government agency to the provisions of the social security and medicare statutes.

I doubt any of the provisions have a rider or provision that exempts the US Government from paying out those benefits when an individual meets the requirements.

You are correct as the laws are written now. But laws change. Congress could propose a law today stating: "The Social Security Act and all of its amendments are hereby repealsed." 218 Representatives, 51 Senators and the President could vote for it or sign it respectively and tomorrow there would be no more Social Security. Look up Flemming v. Nestor (1960) and you can see the Supreme Court ruling that Social Security is not a contract and no one has any vested interest in future benefits.

20 posted on 09/14/2011 2:55:37 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Due to the earthquake the president has officially implemented Rule 18-1.)
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To: KarlInOhio

repealsed -> repealed


21 posted on 09/14/2011 2:56:31 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Due to the earthquake the president has officially implemented Rule 18-1.)
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To: TomGuy
I strongly suggest that the Congressman is in error.

I strongly suggest that you know not what about which you suggest.

The government legally owes you {and me } nothing.

The congress can pass, and the President can sign a law that ends social security today.

We could sue and scream and revolt, but the feds would owe you nothing.

22 posted on 09/14/2011 3:00:30 PM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages.)
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To: Nachum

Wait...is this guy a racist teabagger terrorist?!?!?!

Only those people would say something like that!!!


23 posted on 09/14/2011 3:00:50 PM PDT by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
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To: Nachum
Then stop taking money out of paychecks for a non contractual program.
24 posted on 09/14/2011 3:02:19 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Nachum

FICA is a tax. Like ALL taxes to the feds, it goes into one revenue pool and is spent through Congressional appropriations and as the President sees fit.

There is no SocSec lock box. SocSec is not a right that can not be found in the Constitution. The govt owes you nothing.


25 posted on 09/14/2011 3:03:13 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: oneamericanvoice

No. You have to be 66 to get the max you are “entitled” to.


26 posted on 09/14/2011 3:03:33 PM PDT by Bookwoman ("...and I am unanimous in this...")
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To: xkaydet65
Any Congress and POTUS can end SS with one enactment and signature.

Millions in the private sector literally live off SS, what the government confiscated from them over the course of their work histories...

This happens and I suggest the politicians campaign in armored cars, substantially beef up their security and consider walling off D.C.

27 posted on 09/14/2011 3:03:50 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: KarlInOhio
Congress could propose a law today stating: "The Social Security Act and all of its amendments are hereby repealsed." 218 Representatives, 51 Senators and the President could vote for it or sign it respectively and tomorrow there would be no more Social Security.

That would abrogate the 'full faith and credit' of the US Government.

It won't happen. Not now, not ever. Congress will -- eventually -- get around to fixing the most current problem(s) with SS/Medicare, even if just short term.

SS/Medicare makes a good scare-tactic weapon that has been used in elections for the last 4 decades.
28 posted on 09/14/2011 3:06:46 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Bookwoman

Actually it keeps going up to age 70.
66 is called the “Full Retirement Age” for boomer age folks.


29 posted on 09/14/2011 3:07:32 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Nachum

bkmk


30 posted on 09/14/2011 3:08:08 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: nascarnation

And to think, this Idiot is in Congress, Have Mercy..


31 posted on 09/14/2011 3:11:07 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 ("IF YOU DON'T HOLD IT, YOU DON'T OWN IT" ( Wise old Gold Bug))
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To: Nachum

Government does have a legal obligation to comply with the laws it has passed, SS being among those. Of course it can change laws, but until it does it is obligated to comply.

Contract has a very specific legal meaning. Not sure what this clown thinks he’s accomplished by speaking about SS in terms of contracts. Government does enter some contracts, but it’s not contractually obligated to carry on any of its basic functions. It’s not contractually obligated to maintain an armed forces, and the armed forces have varied greatly in size over the history of the US.


32 posted on 09/14/2011 3:15:44 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Chode
in other words... It's just ANOTHER TAX then!!!

I've had this conversation with a number of people in foreign countries who claim that American workers are taxed so minimally, we have nothing to complain about. When I mentioned that in addition to the federal, state, and local income taxes, we pay an additional 15% into FICA and Medicare, they all claimed, "well that doesn't count, because that's your retirement account."

No matter what I said, they refused to believe that this was nothing more than an additional tax going directly into the general fund, to be spent by the government, and there wasn't a penny with my name on it.

Unfortunately, too many Americans believe that too. I've been paying into this scam for 36 years now, and I don't believe that I'll ever see a penny of it back.

Mark

33 posted on 09/14/2011 3:17:46 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: ExTxMarine

Technical question: how do you change the fonts in your posts.


34 posted on 09/14/2011 3:18:04 PM PDT by Rumplemeyer (The GOP should stand its ground - and fix Bayonets)
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To: Nachum; wardaddy

Cooper has been a boil on our states butt for way too many years.

There is talk the state legislature is going to chop up his safe district.

He’s about as “Blue Dog” as Blues Clues and couldn’t find his brain if he shot himself in the head.


35 posted on 09/14/2011 3:20:03 PM PDT by Fledermaus (I reported myself @ AttackWatch.com)
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To: Chode
Of course it is. I say eliminate the separate tax altogether, which only promotes a fiction, and fund it through general revenues, which is what happens anyway.

ELIMINATE THE SEPARATE WITHHOLDING.

36 posted on 09/14/2011 3:21:32 PM PDT by Huck (If you are in a union, then bow to your COMMIE masters.)
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To: Nachum

I wonder if Warren Buffet collects Social Security - now that would make some headlines.


37 posted on 09/14/2011 3:28:50 PM PDT by PMAS
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To: MarkL
i expect to get zilch also...
38 posted on 09/14/2011 3:31:59 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Nachum

Ponzi scheme, pyramid scheme, chain letter, whatever. It’s legalized theft.


39 posted on 09/14/2011 3:32:27 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: beelzepug

** ... lumber and nails delivered down there on the mall. We’re having a party!!**

Will we need lots of ROPE or just LONG NAILS??


40 posted on 09/14/2011 3:37:08 PM PDT by gwilhelm56 (islam ... Cult of the DAMNED!!!)
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To: Rumplemeyer
Put in front of the area you want bigger. Or a "-#" to make it smaller. Replace the "#" with amount you want to be bigger or smaller. Use to end those changes.
41 posted on 09/14/2011 3:41:08 PM PDT by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
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To: Nachum
Then they just stoled my money!

They're criminals.

42 posted on 09/14/2011 3:41:47 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U (Rabid democRATS and 0bama the dictator own it all now.)
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To: DarrellZero

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

at least one demonrat has come to the realization the gubmint cannot do everything for every one .especially when it’s broke.


43 posted on 09/14/2011 3:43:06 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (See ya later, debt inflator ! Gone in 4 (2012))
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To: Chode

Funny, but I don’t recall any other tax which tracks my contributions and sends me a yearly account total of what I’ve paid into it and what I’m eligible to withdraw.

How anyone (read Troll) can think it’s a just another tax, subject to crony, government discretionary spending, is beyond comprehension.

In simpler terms: GET OUTTA HERE!


44 posted on 09/14/2011 3:55:04 PM PDT by Justa
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To: Bookwoman
No. You have to be 66 to get the max you are “entitled” to.

If you wait until 70, you get a bigger check.

45 posted on 09/14/2011 4:01:42 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: Nachum
I think we'd actually get a more honest politician from this guy


46 posted on 09/14/2011 4:04:01 PM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: oneamericanvoice
Well then, if the government doesn’t have to pay benefits, then I don’t have to pay into SS.

Uh, no, that is not what it means at all.

47 posted on 09/14/2011 4:05:35 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Justa
what I’m eligible to withdraw.

You're not eligible to withdraw ANYTHING. If you don't believe that, send the SS Admin a request for a refund.

If you live long enough, the government MAY at its discretion, send you payments, subject to the whims of Congress.

48 posted on 09/14/2011 4:06:38 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Justa
How anyone (read Troll) can think it’s a just another tax, subject to crony, government discretionary spending, is beyond comprehension.

Because it is and has been since the beginning and there were three Supreme Court cases that held this to be the case.

In 1935 the Democrats rightfully feared that a separate pension system would be ruled an unconstitutional use of federal government power by the Supreme Court(because it would be). So they set it up as a use of Congress' income taxing power and paid the draws out of the US Treasury account.

49 posted on 09/14/2011 4:09:01 PM PDT by triumphant values
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To: TomGuy
Since SS and Medicare have mandatory amounts deducted from wages, that obligates the Government agency to the provisions of the social security and medicare statutes.

The point is that the government can and does change the payout provisions in the statutes whenever it wants. You pay in according to what the statutes require at the time you are working and then you collect according to what the statutes say at the time you are eligible for benefits. However that changes over the course of your working life is up to Congress. You have no legal right to collect anything. If Congress simply eliminates the program and declares that henceforth no one collects anything then that will be what you get.

50 posted on 09/14/2011 4:11:22 PM PDT by rogue yam
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