... Businessman who stabbed intruder with his own knife knew wife and son were due home [UK]

Daily Mail ^ | 18th September 2011 | Jaya Narain

[naturalman1975]

Perhaps in retrospect he judged that the burglar hadn't been a threat, but it seems to me absurd and callous to punish people for failing to exercise defensive violence in a restrained, proportionate way when their home is invaded. Few people under such circumstances of terror and surprise would be able to live up to such an ideal, and I don't think we have any right to demand that of them, anyway. People like Martin have had a situation forcibly, violently imposed upon them by criminals, and have responded as most of us, if we are honest with ourselves, can imagine ourselves responding if we were suddenly to be thrown into such a situation.

You might want to look into the Martin case in detail, because it isn't as you describe. Martin was paranoid, and he expected to be burgled, and had set up traps within his home to deal with burglaries. He had told the police and his neighbours that if anyone tried to burgle him, he would blow their heads off. He slept fully clothed with his boots on and a shotgun by his bed, for when he was burgled.

He planned what he was going to do. It wasn't spur of the moment. And the thing is, he would have been justified if the burglars had been a threat at the time he shot them. But he knew they were running away - and he told the police that.

[Wally_Kalbacken]

"OK. so that's the plan, right? OK. Now remember, with these funny suits on we will not be able to go to the bathroom, so I hope you all have taken care of that. Right-o. OK. Well, let's begin then."

[BobL]

“This figure is constantly cited with absolute no evidence for it provided, and its utter nonsense. Nowhere near 60% of British newborns are Muslim. It’s somewhere between 10 and 15% - which is disproportionately high given they are only about 5% of the population, but this 60% nonsense is simply untrue. “

Your numbers make more sense. But unless you start to sterilize these creatures your culture is dead anyway, it just may take 3 generations for it to end.

[the scotsman]

Do you bother to read the threads where those of us who are British have explained again and again the process in the UK when such an incident happens?.

Perhaps if you did instead of ranting about how awful the UK is, youd learn something.

[the scotsman]

Martin was convicted because he shot the burglars at distance in the back, so the court did not find that his shooting was within the legal limits of reasonable force.

I agree as did most Britons that his conviction was wrong morally, I am simply explaining why he was convicted.

[the scotsman]

We still have the right to self defence.

British freepers like myself have explained in other threads why a householder is initially ‘arrested’ when an intruder is killed. It may seem odd to you, but it is merely a police procedure.

In 99.99% of cases, the facts are very quickly discovered and the householder is free.

[the scotsman]

60% of new British are Muslims?.

Where did you get that crap from?.

[the scotsman]

Yeah, and f*ck you too.

Again, try actually reading British freepers who are trying to explain why homeowners are arrested, instead of rantign about Britain.

And if people like you have so little time for the UK, then Brits like myself will wonder why the hell we stood beside you after 9-11, and why we have lost hundreds of men and women fighting beside you in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Newsflash bub, you aint what you was either.

[the scotsman]

Yeah, well you’d be joining there.

[the scotsman]

Why Martin was jailed has already been explained ad nauseum.

And Flanagan didnt ‘escape’ charges, he was quickly released when the facts became apparent. Usual poor Daily Mail journalism.

[Racehorse]

Thanks, scotsman.

[Larry Lucido]

I appreciate your input.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

I am surprised there is still a wealthy person in England, excluding the royals, of course. From the tone of the article his main crime is being wealthy.

[SkyDancer]

Not so long as we still have our arms and laws that protect victims from prosecution when attacked; either in the home or on the street. So far the English have turned into sheep both in their laws and life.

[the scotsman]

If not my appalling language.

I dont swear that often, so I must build it up.

[skintight buffoonery]

You might want to look into the Martin case in detail, because it isn't as you describe. Martin was paranoid, and he expected to be burgled, and had set up traps within his home to deal with burglaries. He had told the police and his neighbours that if anyone tried to burgle him, he would blow their heads off. He slept fully clothed with his boots on and a shotgun by his bed, for when he was burgled.

I take your point about the Martin case, I'm aware of the facts of the case and my description is, on rereading, possibly misleading. But I would argue that given the state's failure to ensure him to a reasonably high degree the safety of his own life and property, his actions were perfectly understandable and if not ideal at any rate ones that it would be unjust to punish him for. It can be argued that the state can't realistically provide reliable protection for every rural residence, and that probably is to an extent true. But in that case we should not punish people for using defensive violence in a way that falls short in proportionality and carefuleness of what we would expect from some trained agent of the state.

[Brilliant]

So you don’t have to have probable cause to arrest someone for murder? I don’t see why that makes any sense.