Reno Race Accident Investigation Continues

Aero News Network ^ | Mon, Sep 19, 2011 | staff

[hattend]

Could my #119 have stayed if I removed the two words at the bottom?

Just curious

[Atlas Sneezed]

For the record, there are approx. 400 airshows per year in America with an annual attendance of 17 million. Nascar has an annual attendance of less than 4 million.

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I’m making a critical distinction between air races (let me know if there are any other than Reno) and airshows.

I’ve posted about the difference in terms of experience and competitive fervor.

[hattend]

They don’t carry much fuel for the race and GG had a boil off cooling system that probably contained a lot of non flammable coolant

That’s my only guess. We read the crash was between Box A-41 and A-50. We were seated in A-81

[Atlas Sneezed]

Thanks for the photo post. The diagonal angle of the stress marks suggests that the rear fuselage sheared with an upward force by the wing, and downward by the tail. Which is consistent with loss of a trim tab operation that normally provides upward force at the tail to counteract excessive lift at speed, and when lost would generate major downforce.

I’m not an aviation expert, but I did earn an engineering degree once upon a time.

Maybe a simpler way of looking at it is that this is what happens when positive Gs exceed the airframe’s capability, but the wings are strong enough not to fall off.

[Loud Mime]

You may be speaking of the crash at LeMans that killed almost 100 people.

It was horrible.

I believe it is why Mercedes quit auto racing.

[FReepaholic]

New video:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...76019#44576019

[mad_as_he$$]

Yes, the angle is described by witnesses is different. I think it has to do with the view they had. The guy I talked to today recalls it as about what is shown in the picture. Other I talked to over the weekend say it was less. They were mostly closer and on the far (West) side of the crash. All of the videos that show the actual crash(that I have seen) show the plane pulling the nose up in the last second or so. There are indentations on the tarmac where the wings hit.

[I cannot think of a name]

“They don’t carry much fuel for the race and GG had a boil off cooling system that probably contained a lot of non flammable coolant”

Since I posted that, I was trying to remember where I read a story about the development of napalm (may be in a book I have, but I have lots). The developers wanted to set off an explosion to spread the stuff around, but if the explosion was too large it blew the stuff out and no fire occurred. I still think a phenomena like that is the explanation for what happened this weekend. I have no idea how fast the plane was going, but if the engine was still running at full power as many have reported, and the aircraft was pointed nearly straight down as the photographs indicate, it hit with a gigantic amount of force.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Someone did some quick research and discovered someone took a pic of the A/C parked on the ground and manipulated the photo to show it in the air. The perp didn’t take the time to deal with the extended tailwheel and a missing pilot

Are you suggesting the the Seattle Times published a photoshopped photo?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016234004_apusairshowcrash.html

Same photographer credited as here:

http://www.theunion.com/article/20110919/NEWS/110919777/1066&ParentProfile=1053

Here is the contrast-enhanced version of the post-failure photo. Is that a helmet leaning forward in the cockpit? (Maybe it's just the instrument cowl.)

[Atlas Sneezed]

The spinner reflection in the disputed photo is perfectly consistent with a plane that is diving with it’s left with toward the ground, exactly as shown in the second photo.

The “photoshop” assertion is utter horse-sh!t.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Also, the spinner reflection in the first photo shows the white tents visible in the second photo.

[Mat_Helm]

The Extra 300 is designed for +/-10G flight. It has a very large stab and trim tabs designed for +/- 32 deg. of deflection. They have a 2mm design tolerance with the controls locked. I think they will look to see what failed on the Ghosts tab (bowden cable wire, hinge, linkage bolt). I would not question the use of tabs on the Mustang but would concentrate on flutter, wake turbulence from the other planes, and that interesting photo on post 100 showing skin warping and flex. Not sure if that is normal in a Mustang under normal circumstances.

[Mamzelle]

Ummm, 11 dead, another fifty with awful injuries...*I'm* harsh? What about flying what sounds to be an almost untested modified aircraft over a crowd?

I don't know what the shakeout will be. I don't want to tell people they can't have their entertainment, but they need to be better informed about the risks rather than the potential showmanship. Aviation buffs need to examine their blind enthusiasm for their hobby. You might discover how obnoxious all this sharp-elbowing and "don't dare touch my dream of touching the face of God. Or something."

[Mat_Helm]

Your post is uncalled for. We know what to expect when we go to these events. No spectator has died at Reno or the Bendix races when they were in the Midwest. 70 Years of air racing with no spectators injured. Compare that to Indy car, NASCAR, NHRA, off road racing, on and on etc... that have killed and injured hundreds if not thousands over their history with millions more spectators. It is more dangerous to be a Giants fan at Dodger stadium than in Reno.

[taildragger]

Blind enthusiasm? Please, you do not know me and have no idea the personal losses I suffered this year in this arena. I am aware of the my friend, very aware. If you check out post I am concerned about the losses in this event as well and I do not take it lightly. For the record the flight path does not go over a crowd, this was an emergency situation where IMHO the pilot did everything he could to prevent a worse loss. I am aware of the risk, been to Reno eons ago. As far as the untested, perhaps you should look more into the sport, in terms of the untested and modified and what it is all about and what they try to do to mitigate risk.

[TankerKC]

That was heavy man.

That must have been one huge failure of multiple channels of the DFCS and g limiters...

[I cannot think of a name]

“but would concentrate on flutter”

One of the things that concerns me is something printed after the crash of “Ms Ashely II” due to flutter a few years ago. In the aftermath they reported that the aircraft had been flutter cleared by having a pilot dive it to 400 miles and hour and do control stick raps. In my opinion that's not at all adequate for this high performance of an aircraft. Control stick raps can't simulate anything higher than 10hz.

These aircraft are flying in close proximity of other higher performance aircraft. Who knows what kind of strange gusts and upsets they are subject to. I'd want to see them install a shaker and clear the plane to at least 450 knots and at least 32hz. Of course that's expensive testing, and maybe they just can't afford it. After this incident, I'm not sure they can afford not to.

[Mamzelle]

My post is called for. Instead of jutting out your collective chins and puffing up your Red Baron chests, consider that you're not swinging a baseball bat but riding a bullet-shaped bomb. Other sports can make an effort to protect spectators, but these air shows really cannot. Nor, I expect, are they well-insured. Racing stadiums have good insurance.

Once I was enjoying a fine day a few years back and heard a nasty scream from the air. An orange missile was diving straight for my home and it sounded exactly like a ICBM in the movies. Frozen, it got closer and I saw it was one of those new small private jets, either a Premier or a Citation, painted in colors of red and gold. I thought it was crashing. It got close enough that I could almost make out the numbers, but didn't have my driving glasses on and lacked the presence of mind, anyway. A private jet got closer to my home than 500 feet.

He pulled up, banked and climbed. Pilot wearing a smirk, I'm sure, for scaring the crap out of those bound to the earth. I got mad enough to call a few airports but couldn't ID the AH.

There's an attitude about a lot of hobby craft pilots that is most unpleasant and this might be a good time to address it.

[Mamzelle]

I suggest you read the article I referenced. The pilot is quoted before the race as to not knowing how untried mods would perform. Then he opened the throttle and turned...From the little I know I don’t think the pilot was capable of anything, since he was unconscious...or dead. That more people weren’t hurt is dumb luck or God’s grace.

[taildragger]

It’s not worth it... Uncle...