Posted on 09/19/2011 11:04:53 AM PDT by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears
A southern California couple has been fined $300 dollars for holding Christian Bible study sessions in their home, and could face another $500 for each additional gathering.
City officials in San Juan Capistrano, Calif. say Chuck and Stephanie Fromm are in violation of municipal code 9-3.301, which prohibits “religious, fraternal or non-profit” organizations in residential neighborhoods without a permit. Stephanie hosts a Wednesday Bible study that draws about 20 attendees, and Chuck holds a Sunday service that gets about 50.
The Fromms appealed their citations but were denied and warned future sessions would carry heftier penalties. A statement from the Pacific Justice Institute, which is defending the couple in a lawsuit against the city, said Chuck Fromm was also told regular gatherings of three or more people require a conditional use permit, which can be costly and difficult to obtain.
“How dare they tell us we can’t have whatever we want in our home,” Stephanie Fromm told the Capistrano Dispatch. “We want to be able to use our home. We’ve paid a lot and invested a lot in our home and backyard … I should be able to be hospitable in my home.”
According to the Dispatch, the Fromms live in a neighborhood with large homes and have a corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn on their property, so parking and noise aren’t a problem.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
What part of the First Amendment do you not understand?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
A Permit for free speech? A permit to permit the free exercise of religion? WTF?
>>We didn’t fight anything.
Nor will we.
Brave men, real men, long ago fought. <<
Not sure what your point has to do with anything. Brave men and women are still fighting for our liberty. In spite of what the tyrants are doing to destroy us from within.
What about everybody else’s rights?
San Juan Capistrano is an old, densely populated city with narrow streets. I guarantee they’re creating parking and traffic havoc.
Twice-weekly meetings with upwards of fifty people is not just having some friends over. They’re running a church in a residential neighborhood. Period. And it shouldn’t be allowed.
A church colonized in a house on a residential street near me, and it was a disaster for the poor people on the adjacent streets. The court confiscated the value of their homes and quality of life when they ruled that the church could stay, contrary to zoning laws because, well, Freedom of Religion.
Your next-door neighbor can’t open a Starbucks in their garage for obvious reasons. Why should they be allowed to operate a church?
I said the other issue was about parking.
In this case it appears the city defined the group as a church and churches need “use permits”.
I disagree with that assessment. They have good people fighting this is court for them.
The other event, the city backed down.
This is ridiculous. I used to go to the Old Mission for school, and home bible studies are NOT against the law. This is sickening.
Just sounds like old fashioned zoning to me. Bringing dozens of people over multiple times a week does impose costs on neighbors. If you want to start a church, buy a couple acres in a commercial area.
WRONG.
Bible studies in hoes cannot be prohibited in and of themselves under our Constitution. This has always been the case, and it is remarkable how ignorant so many are about American history.
I studied this in graduate studies, how the British government pulled this same crap, limiting how many could meet in a house to prohibit religious meetings, and taxing them also (i.e. requiring “permits.”)
It is precisely one of the reasons we fought the Revolutionary War.
That people sit by and watch our liberties curtailed and actually applaud it is alarming.
Philippe I of Spain and Louis XIV thought they could eradicate them but they were wrong.
So, in my kind of country the GOVERNMENT has no authority to determine what is or is not religious ~ none at all. Should be a death penalty for bureaucrats acting on behalf of the state claiming such authority.
And, in your country, which is where?
[ Regular gatherings of 3 or more people? ]
So if I decide to have friends over ever couple of days inthis neighbor hood then it is illegal?
Only in Commie Kalifornia.
This is all a Local issue, and the locals in Kalifornia are mostly Granola, Nuts and fruits.
There is nothing in there that prohibits zoning, for one thing. And zoning is essentially based on use and traffic.
Assume you live in some rural or suburban setting, maybe 2 acre lots. Then, out of the blue, your new neighbor, who bought the 2 acres next to you, starts holding daily religious services that draw 2,000 people. Can you invoke zoning, or does your neighbor's 1st amendment right trump you?
From the article:
According to the Dispatch, the Fromms live in a neighborhood with large homes and have a corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn on their property, so parking and noise aren’t a problem.
From the article: the Fromms live in a neighborhood with large homes and have a corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn on their property, so parking and noise aren’t a problem.
>>Already posted, and without CAPS.<<
The reason for the CAPS is that I copied and pasted the exact headline, as we are supposed to do. It is ALL CAPS.
The reason the article is posted twice is that I did a search and it did not show up.
But this is a common problem I have noticed others have on Free Republic.
I hope the all caps title did not ruin your whole day. ;-)
It’s law. By right churches may locate in residential areas. Sometime local fascists get out of line and think the law no longer applies to them, but it does.
Does the Purple Gestapo “SEIU” ever get fined for congregating in mass at private citizen's homes?
From the article: the Fromms live in a neighborhood with large homes and have a corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn on their property, so parking and noise aren’t a problem.
Free speech, free exercise of religion, free association, especially in your own home.
No permit required!
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