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To: MamaTexan
This would make Rubio a native born citizen, not a natural born one.

That's a distinction that doesn't exist in the law. Whether it existed in the framer's minds, or in their intentions, or whether it ought to exist, etc., is fine to argue about, but Rubio's eligibility or lack thereof is determined by the law.

The law says that a person born in U.S. territory of parents who are not "under foreign jurisdiction" (not diplomats, foreign military at war with the U.S., etc.) are citizens by birth, and the law does not distinguish between "citizen by birth" and "natural-born".

50 posted on 09/30/2011 5:11:43 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: Campion
That's a distinction that doesn't exist in the law.

Yes, it does.

Wong Kim Ark
The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.

------

This is like saying a car is just as much a vehicle as a truck.

A true statement on it's face, but it doesn't make a car INTO a truck.

Wong Kim petitioned the court as a NATIVE born citizen. The court agreed he was such, but the finding made the distinction between natural-born and native born.

Had there BEEN no distinction, the finding would not have been worded as it was.

55 posted on 09/30/2011 5:35:50 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: Campion

You’re wrong. Here’s why.

The following information comes from our government, US Citizenship and Immigration Services, and describes the three statutory types of citizenship - native born (jus solis), derived citizenship (jus sanguinis), and naturalized citizenship.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=a2ec6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=a2ec6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

CITIZENSHIP

If you meet certain requirements, you may become a U.S. citizen either at birth or after birth.

To become a citizen at birth, you must:

Have been born in the United States or certain territories or outlying possessions of the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States; OR
had a parent or parents who were citizens at the time of your birth (if you were born abroad) and meet other requirements.

To become a citizen after birth, you must:

Apply for “derived” or “acquired” citizenship through parents.

Apply for naturalization

*****************************************

Note: all three types of the above are U.S. citizens. All may serve in the U.S.Congress, as either Representatives in the House, or as Senators in the Senate.

Per Article I, Section 2 and 3 of the United State Constitution, Representatives and Senators shall be Citizens of the United States.

The ONLY place “natural born citizen” appears in our national laws is as an eligibility requirement to be President of the United States.

Per Article II, Section 1, clause 5: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

The eligibility requirement to be President is not the same as that for Congress. Simply being a “citizen” is not enough.

Our founders understood the difference. Here is where the definition exists in national law:

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/the-express-lane-to-natural-born-clarity/

ONLY NATIONAL LAW MAKES BINDING PRECEDENT.

The Supreme Court’s definition of the natural-born citizen clause in Minor [Minor vs. Happersett] is not common law, natural law, or international law. Vattel is not cited by the Supreme Court in Minor. And Vattel does not make US law. The Court’s holding in Minor is national law. It is United States law.

Those other sources may have been consulted, but when the Court held that [Virginia] Minor was a citizen under Article 2 Section 1 because she was born in the US of citizen parents, that definition became national law. Therefore, Minor supersedes all other sources on this point. It is a direct Constitutional interpretation and definition.

The other sources are not necessary. Relying upon them actually weakens the authority of Minor. There is no need for insecurity in the face of supporting Supreme Court precedent.

On November 22, 2008, Justice Scalia addressed the Federalist Society, stating:

“Natural law has nothing to do with originalism. I mean, I believe in natural law, but unfortunately I have no way to show or demonstrate that my understanding of it is the same as yours, or is the same as anybody else’s. I don’t enforce natural law. I suppose God enforces natural law. I enforce United States law. United States law should not contravene natural law, but that’s not my problem… I worry about, ‘What does this text mean?’ ” (Emphasis added.)

Earlier in that same speech, Justice Scalia stated:

“What has happened can only be compared to the naive belief that we used to have in the common law… Erie Railroad, you know, blows that all away… and we sort of chuckle at how naive the world could have been ever to have thought there was a common law…”

Do not get sidetracked by extraneous theoretical sources. We have United States Supreme Court precedent which defines a natural-born citizen – under Article 2 Section 1 – as a person born on US soil to parents who were citizens. Neither Obama nor McCain fit that definition. Neither are eligible to be President.

While some may argue McCain was eligible based upon a reference to Vattel, McCain simply does not fit the strict US Supreme Court definition of natural-born citizen as defined in Minor. To fashion an exception for McCain not found in the actual text from Minor is purely partisan and unfair.

Unlike others commenting on eligibility, I have always maintained that both McCain and Obama were not eligible. I brought my law suit all the way to the Supreme Court – prior to the election – arguing against both candidates’ eligibility. I was the first person to raise this issue with the American people. And I hold them both accountable for the damage done to our Constitution as a result of neither having more concern for the nation than they did for themselves.

Leo Donofrio, Esq.

*****************************************

I hope this clarifies the issue for you.

I’m old enough to remember when the Republican Party seriously considered amending the U.S. Constitution eligibility requirement so that Henry Kissinger (born in Germany) or Arnold Schwarznegger (born in Austria) could run for President. Thank God they didn’t do that and reason prevailed.

As recently as 2006 there was a paper written by Sarah Herlihy claiming that the ‘natural born citizen’ requirment was stupid and prevented the U.S. from being part of the Globalism movement. THAT gave away the real intent of so-called Progressives; that United States sovereignty was a constraint on the establishment of a socialist Global government.

If enough states have in their state constitutions the definition of natural born citizen - born in the USA of citizen parents - it will effectively block the New World Order / Globalist government operatives.

Understand now?


74 posted on 10/01/2011 9:04:24 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT!)
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To: Campion
The law says that a person born in U.S. territory of parents who are not "under foreign jurisdiction" (not diplomats, foreign military at war with the U.S., etc.) are citizens by birth, and the law does not distinguish between "citizen by birth" and "natural-born".

The Supreme Court makes the distinction. It says one term is defined by the Constitution while the other is defined OUTSIDE of the Constitution:

NBC: "The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that."
Citizenship by birth: "But citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the Constitution."

NBC, the court said is being born in the country to parents who were its citizens. Citizenship by birth is defined by the birth clause of the 14th amendment: Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof ... with the latter half being defined as having parents who have domicil and permanent residence, such as had Wong Kim Ark:

... whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States ...

119 posted on 10/03/2011 3:05:05 PM PDT by edge919
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To: Campion
Yes it does exist, the law holding PRECIDENT is Minor Vs Happersett.
178 posted on 10/05/2011 6:42:50 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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