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HERMAN CAIN: HOW DID HE DO (slow-witted Gregory) More like dumb
Powerline ^ | October 16,2011 | JOHN HINDERAKER

Posted on 10/16/2011 6:21:56 PM PDT by Hojczyk

Reading the transcript, what strikes me is how slow-witted Gregory was. Repeatedly, Cain makes a simple, clear point, but Gregory doesn’t seem to get it. This became almost painful during an exchange about state sales taxes:

MR. GREGORY: The other defect in the plan comes from fellow conservatives who say, “You’ve got some problems here.” … “The real political defect,” the Journal writes, “of the Cain plan is that it imposes a new national sales tax while maintaining the income tax. … A 9 percent rate when combined with state and local levies would mean a tax on goods of 17 percent or more in many places. The cries for exemptions would be great.”

MR. CAIN: Don’t combine it with state taxes. This doesn’t address state taxes. If you add them together, yes, you’ll get that number. This is a replacement structure. These are replacement taxes. They’re not on top of anything.

MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.

MR. CAIN: We replace capital gains tax. We replace the payroll tax. We replace corporate income tax, replace personal income tax, and replace the death tax. It is a replacement tax structure.

MR. GREGORY: But where do state taxes go? You’re saying they’re going to be repealed?

MR. CAIN: If you–with the current structure, you have state taxes, right? So with this new structure, you’re still going to have taxes–state taxes. That is muddying the water.

MR. GREGORY: How so?

MR. CAIN: Because today, under the current tax code, state taxes are there if they have it. If they don’t have a state taxes, they don’t have it. It has nothing to do with this replacement structure for the federal tax code.

(Excerpt) Read more at powerlineblog.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 999; cain; davidgregory; hermancain; lamestreammedia; meetthedepressed; meetthepress
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1 posted on 10/16/2011 6:21:58 PM PDT by Hojczyk
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To: Hojczyk
Photobucket
2 posted on 10/16/2011 6:23:02 PM PDT by xuberalles ("The Right Stuff" Conservative Novelties http://www.zazzle.com/xuberalles)
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To: Hojczyk

Thanks for posting this. My main thought, as I watched the interview, was just how stupid David Gregory is. Wow, how do you get a network gig while being an economic retard? Sheesh.


3 posted on 10/16/2011 6:23:33 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Hojczyk
Cain's entire response to all of Gregory's attack questions was textbook effective: crisp, clear, good-natured, firm.

His is the most winning style since Reagan.
4 posted on 10/16/2011 6:25:53 PM PDT by jobim
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To: Hojczyk
MR. CAIN: Because today, under the current tax code, state taxes are there if they have it. If they don’t have a state taxes, they don’t have it. It has nothing to do with this replacement structure for the federal tax code.

Not that difficult to understand, unless you're a flaming liberal.

5 posted on 10/16/2011 6:28:05 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country but Herman Cain loves mine.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

David Gregory (punk) isn’t just economically retarded there. He doesn’t seem to grasp elementary school mathematics.


6 posted on 10/16/2011 6:30:57 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: xuberalles

Great poster! Just saved that for printing.


7 posted on 10/16/2011 6:32:11 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Thanks.


8 posted on 10/16/2011 6:33:47 PM PDT by xuberalles ("The Right Stuff" Conservative Novelties http://www.zazzle.com/xuberalles)
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To: jobim

I agree.

Clarence Thomas with a charisma implant.


9 posted on 10/16/2011 6:36:13 PM PDT by nascarnation (DEFEAT BARAQ 2012 DEPORT BARAQ 2013)
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To: Hojczyk

David Gregory has always impressed me -

As a slack jawed, rheumy eyed, kool - aid swilling, jackhandle witted stumblebum. A perfect, castrati compliment to the granola munching lesbian simps that populate the rest of that network.

He should move to Fox News where his imbicilic blathering would only bring improvement over there.


10 posted on 10/16/2011 6:36:33 PM PDT by atc23 (The Confederacy was the single greatest conservative resistance to federal authority ever.)
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To: Graybeard58
MR. CAIN: First, they’re missing one very critical point about the sales tax. It wasn’t even mentioned in that analysis that you read. On the price of goods, there are invisible taxes that are built into everything we buy. We’ll simply–those invisible taxes are going to go away. And we’re replacing them with a 9 percent visible tax. For example, take a loaf of bread. The farmer pays taxes on his profits. The company that makes the flour, the baker, the delivery man. By the time that loaf of bread gets to the grocery store, there are a series of invisible taxes, which are also called embedded taxes. So, in reality, those taxes go away and so the price of goods don’t go up.

But don't forget, under 9-9-9, when the flour maker buys wheat from the farmer, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE.

When the baker buys flour from the flour maker, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE. etc etc etc.

These taxes will be tacked on to the price of product.

Additionally, when the IRS Code goes away, every business in the production chain will lose their deductions for cost of doing business. THOSE prices will have to be tacked onto product as well.

I disagree with Cain's core premise, that 9-9-9 will make prices go down.

11 posted on 10/16/2011 6:41:10 PM PDT by sklar
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I don’t know but I watched Chris Matthews on Jeopardy once (why I inflicted that on myself, I’ll never know) but he was a complete imbecile.

My kids were answering questions he didn’t know.


12 posted on 10/16/2011 6:41:33 PM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: Hojczyk
Takes a real fearless conservative to make DNC Dave look THAT stupid.

And thank Gawd we finally have a thread about Herman that the desperate Perry Cain-haters didn't put up.

13 posted on 10/16/2011 6:44:25 PM PDT by Happy Rain ( "Many of the most useful idiots of the Left are on the Right.")
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To: TigersEye

I say not in that Gregory knows exactly what he was doing in trying to get Cain to bite on the premise of his questions. Gregory operates with the liberal conviction that the grand majority of people watching rabbit ears TV are just about as capable of understanding common sense economic issues as they are of being able to balance a checkbook.

His liberal establishment friends have made sure that neither is a common trait of those who exit government schools and their one size fits all worldview will be their undoing. It actually seemed that Gregory started to warm up to him late in the interview because he figured out that Herman was unflappable, at least on this day. He’ll try to get him again on the low side of his bio-rythem.


14 posted on 10/16/2011 6:44:39 PM PDT by mazda77 (and I am a Native Texan)
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To: sklar
But don't forget, under 9-9-9, when the flour maker buys wheat from the farmer, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE.

No, Cain has said there would be no taxes on that or your other examples. The tax would be on retail sales and those are not retail sales.

15 posted on 10/16/2011 6:47:26 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: sklar
You're assuming that every step of the production process would be taxed at 9%. If the 9% is anything like a value-added tax, the taxes would not accumulate, like you're assuming. For instance, your bread maker would get a credit for the taxes paid by the farmer ... and so on. In that way, the total tax (paid in the end by the consumer) would be 9%.
16 posted on 10/16/2011 6:50:21 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: mazda77
Oh, I know that Gregory (punk) was playing games. But he wants us to take him at face value so I took him at face value and found him to be dumber than a bag of hammers.

I do know that the truth is that David Gregory (punk) is a disingenuous, lying sack of something entirely different than hammers.

17 posted on 10/16/2011 6:51:56 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: sklar

The law can’t be written to specify the tax is only for certain RETAIL purchases. And anyone who thinks anybody’s plan is going to make it through congress unchanged is naive at best. To add taxes through the manufacturing process is a VAT tax and that’s NOT what he’s proposing. There’s nothing wrong with being opposed to this plan but please let’s discuss it as he really intends it to be. We’ve GOT to be adults and honest with each other about these things and not spread misinformation. This election is too important. Discuss your objections to the 9% sales tax as it is, don’t add components that aren’t there. If you’re not sure how it’s supposed to work then go to his website or read other sources that talk about it.

Cindie

Cindie


18 posted on 10/16/2011 6:53:10 PM PDT by gardencatz (Proud mom US Marine! It can't always be someone else's son.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Actually Cain has said that there would be no taxes on business purchases so no VAT and no sales tax.


19 posted on 10/16/2011 6:53:41 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: sklar

You are completely wrong. There will only be a 9% retail sales tax. RETAIL


20 posted on 10/16/2011 6:53:48 PM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: sklar
But don't forget, under 9-9-9, when the flour maker buys wheat from the farmer, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE.

Dead wrong. Please repeat after me:

It's a sales tax, not a value added tax.

It's a sales tax, not a VAT.

It...is...a...sales...tax...on...retail...sales.

Please, let's not confuse it with something it's not.

21 posted on 10/16/2011 6:54:47 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: TigersEye

I’m not sure that Gregory’s performance matters.

What mattered was that Cainn had a chance to answer the questions fully.


22 posted on 10/16/2011 6:56:23 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: TigersEye
This is for Gregory
23 posted on 10/16/2011 6:58:26 PM PDT by mazda77 (and I am a Native Texan)
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To: Balding_Eagle

Yes, indeedy, that is true. It would appear that Cain is getting his message across as more and more people seem to be familiar with the details of his tax plan.


24 posted on 10/16/2011 6:58:53 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Hojczyk

I totally loved the way that the Hermanator met each of Gregory’s objections with his own truth. Issue for issue, point for point. Finally Gregory had to listen to the man because he knew that whatever he said, Cain had a stronger rebuttal.
Gregory had to put his gun back in his holster, as he knew he was being beaten by a no nonsense black man at the top of his form.

RIP David Gregory - you never even half filled Russert’s jockstrap!


25 posted on 10/16/2011 7:01:02 PM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: mazda77

LOL I can’t stand Gregory. (punk) I don’t like libs in general but very few of them provoke a visceral reaction in me like he does and that began when I first saw and heard him in the Clinton years. What a punk!


26 posted on 10/16/2011 7:02:12 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: justsaynomore
It's an MSM-wide thing:


27 posted on 10/16/2011 7:02:48 PM PDT by Hunton Peck (See my FR homepage for a list of businesses that support WI Gov. Scott Walker)
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To: Graybeard58; All

actually click the link and read what’s not posted here- the immediate transcript after the few lines in this thread make gregory look like an even bigger horses a$$....


28 posted on 10/16/2011 7:04:34 PM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: TigersEye
No, Cain has said there would be no taxes on that or your other examples. The tax would be on retail sales and those are not retail sales.

Cain never explained that with Gregory, and I don't recall seeing that on his site. Could you point me please to this clarification?

But say a farmer needs an expensive new backhoe. Currently, he buys the backhoe, and gets to write off the bulk of it's cost against profits, as a "cost of doing business deduction". Under 9-9-9 he would get no tax relief for purchasing the backhoe.

All those expenses would still have to be tacked on to the price of goods, and would cause SOME businesses to fail that wouldn't in the current Tax model.

29 posted on 10/16/2011 7:05:11 PM PDT by sklar
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To: C. Edmund Wright
My main thought, as I watched the interview, was just how stupid David Gregory is. Wow, how do you get a network gig while being an economic retard?

J-School graduates are not known for IQ. The Radio/TV Department, even less so.

In all liklihood, Gregory couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.

30 posted on 10/16/2011 7:07:13 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: sklar

And you don’t think there are embedded taxes in there already?


31 posted on 10/16/2011 7:08:26 PM PDT by republicangel
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To: okie01

>>> J-School graduates are not known for IQ. The Radio/TV Department, even less so.>>>

Hah, you may be right. Of course, that was my specific major in fact - but then again, my economic education is based on the 30 some entrepreneurial exploits I’ve had post college - not to mention studying the economy and writing on it for a decade.

I guess David Gregory has just been having make up applied since he graduated....


32 posted on 10/16/2011 7:10:26 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Hojczyk

I have run the numbers based on my particular situation, and my taxes would basically double under Cain’s 999 plan.

Now my situation is very unique because I get 2/3’s of my income from rent, but I still support Cain, because I know that 999 will never be passed anyway, which makes all this discussion about it irrelavant anyway.

Cain is a good conservative, and frankly, I just like him. He has my vote as long as his poll numbers stay ahead of Romney in the states that matter: Iowa, South Carolina, Florida.

If Cain wins those 3, he will be rolling in money, and will sweep the rest easy.

Romney is going to win New Hampshire no matter what, but it doesn’t matter.


33 posted on 10/16/2011 7:10:54 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama = Epic Fail)
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To: TigersEye

Even better — simpler, and all taxes are ultimately paid by the consumer. Still, if it were modeled on a VAT (as Canada’s GST is), it would work as I described. There would be no taxing of taxes.


34 posted on 10/16/2011 7:11:01 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Wow, how do you get a network gig while being an economic retard?

It's amazing what having great hair will get you.

35 posted on 10/16/2011 7:15:40 PM PDT by Tonytitan
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To: Hojczyk
Gregory: Pretty face, dumber than a box of rocks. You don't have to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to get a gig on national TV. In fact, logical thinking is a disadvantage. Truly smart people usually aren't Democrats.
36 posted on 10/16/2011 7:17:25 PM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: Hojczyk
Gregory needs an illustration!
37 posted on 10/16/2011 7:17:30 PM PDT by Stymee
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To: okie01

You’ll have to forgive sklar - there are some economic synapses that simply don’t fire for him (or her). I mean, they just don’t connect regardless of how slowly you write a post.


38 posted on 10/16/2011 7:17:30 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Hojczyk

I watched the whole thing. Cain did great. Gregory had the answer he wanted in mind before he asked the question. Cain rightly disputed the premiss of the question.

Look folks, if our candidates let the press decide the premiss of the debate, we lose. Only two candidates have repeatedly and correctly stood up to the press, Cain and Newt.

That is where Pawlenty fell flat on his face.


39 posted on 10/16/2011 7:18:51 PM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
My parents are retired and live on a Pension. I have done their taxes for them.

Their Pension money is treated the same as wages. They have withholding. Their tax rate is about 10%. Under 9-9-9, their Personal Tax would therefor fall from 10% to 9%. HOWEVER...

they would now have to pay a BRAND NEW 9% Fed Sales Tax on food, soap, shampoo, etc etc etc.

There is NO WAY they won't be paying more, and they are of limited means.

40 posted on 10/16/2011 7:19:04 PM PDT by sklar
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to answer my dim-witted questions in posts #29 and #40.

Thanking you in advance for your kindness.

41 posted on 10/16/2011 7:23:55 PM PDT by sklar
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To: sklar
But say a farmer needs an expensive new backhoe. Currently, he buys the backhoe, and gets to write off the bulk of it's cost against profits, as a "cost of doing business deduction". Under 9-9-9 he would get no tax relief for purchasing the backhoe.

Actually he would.

Herman Cain's 999 Plan

9% Business Flat Tax

Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.

9% National Sales Tax.

Unlike a state sales tax, which is an add-on tax that increases the price of goods and services, this is a replacement tax. It replaces taxes that are already embedded in selling prices. By replacing higher marginal rates in the production process with lower marginal rates, marginal production costs actually decline, which will lead to prices being the same or lower, not higher.

The farmer would be covered under "capital investment" so he would pay no tax on the backhoe to begin with and the price of the backhoe would be less in the first place due to the lower marginal rates on the manufacture of it if it were U.S. made.

42 posted on 10/16/2011 7:25:29 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Maybe he was drunk, like he was on Inmus a few years ago.


43 posted on 10/16/2011 7:26:03 PM PDT by BlackjackPershing ("The Business of America is Business"--President Calvin Coolidge)
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To: gardencatz
The law can’t be written to specify the tax is only for certain RETAIL purchases.

Sure it can. It being done now. In Michigan you pay sales tax on non-food items and you don't pay on food items. It is quite simple.

44 posted on 10/16/2011 7:28:06 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: sklar
Good point. The "9-9-9" formulation is overly simplified -- which is probably a necessary evil for an election platform.

Here, in Canada, our GST (a VAT) exempts food, and a lot of other things, that make up most of the expenditures of retired or poor families. There is also a tax credit -- the tax man sends you a cheque -- for low income individuals and families. In effect, most pensioners, and poor families pay no GST (some even come out slightly ahead).

Similarly, a flat income tax (the first "9") can be made "progressive", by simply allowing a deduction of the first "X" dollars of income. Obviously, you have to be careful not to mess with the formula too much -- or you risk making it too complicated. Also, if your objective is to give everyone "some skin in the game", you should ensure that everyone pays at least some tax.
45 posted on 10/16/2011 7:29:46 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Hojczyk

"Sooo... What happens to the state taxes? All 57 of them?"

46 posted on 10/16/2011 7:30:16 PM PDT by Fido969
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To: Hojczyk

"Sooo... What happens to the state taxes? All 57 of them?"

47 posted on 10/16/2011 7:30:39 PM PDT by Fido969
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To: sklar
But don't forget, under 9-9-9, when the flour maker buys wheat from the farmer, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE.

When the baker buys flour from the flour maker, he'll be paying a 9% Fed Sales Tax that HE NEVER PAID BEFORE. etc etc etc.

You are describing a VAT, not a retail sales tax.

Take a look at this link: http://www.nerds4cain.com/forums/discussion/106/does-everyone-understand-the-difference-between-a-vat-and-a-retail-sales-taxs

Does Everyone Understand the Difference Between a VAT and a Retail Sales Tax?

It seems that the 999 plan is receiving a lot of unfair criticism, because many people don't understand the difference between a value added tax (VAT) and a retail sales tax. I'm going to try and describe the difference here, using the milk supply chain as an example.

A retail sales tax (this is what is in the 999 plan)


  1. A dairy farmer sells their milk to a processor. No taxes are levied or added to the price of the milk.
  2. The processor sells the milk to a wholesaler. No taxes are levied or added to the price of the milk.
  3. The wholesaler sells the milk to a grocery. No taxes are levied or added to the price of the milk.
  4. The grocery puts the milk on the store shelves. No taxes are levied or added to the price of the milk.
  5. A parent buys the milk to put on their cereal at home. At the cash register, a sales tax is levied on the price of the milk. The sales tax shows up as a separate line on the cash register receipt.

The one and only place where a tax is levied on the milk is after it has reached the cash register for it's final purchase before being consumed—a retail purchase.

From a conservative standpoint, the great advantage of a retail sales tax is that it is 100% visible. The tax payer can easily determine how much they are paying in taxes.

A VAT (value added tax)

  1. A dairy farmer sells their milk to a processor. A tax is levied on the milk, and it is embedded in the price the farmer charges the processor.
  2. The processor sells the milk to a wholesaler. Again, a tax is levied on the milk, and it is embedded in the price the processor charges the wholesaler.
  3. The wholesaler sells the milk to a grocery. For a third time, a tax is levied on the milk, and it is embedded in the price the wholesaler charges the grocery.
  4. The grocery puts the milk on the store shelves. For the fourth time, a tax is levied on the milk, and it is embedded in the price of the milk displayed on the shelf.
  5. A parent buys the milk to put on their cereal at home. At the cash register, no taxes are levied on the milk. The four taxes that have already been levied on the milk do not show up as a separate line on the cash register receipt.

With a VAT, every time a product or raw material changes hands it is taxed, and the tax is embedded in the price of the item. If it changes hands five times before it reaches the consumer, it is taxed five times. If it changes hands 100 times before it reaches the consumer, it is taxed 100 times.

Conservatives are right to abhor a VAT.

A VAT is a hidden tax. The consumer never knows for sure how much in taxes they are paying, because the tax is embedded in the price of the product. That, of course, is why governments love the VAT. Voters are less likely to complain about a tax when it is difficult for them to determine exactly how much they are paying in taxes.

A VAT creates a paperwork nightmare for businesses as they have to keep track of the taxes that have been paid on items and raw materials all along the production process.

It's not surprising that Europe (which has a bias towards high taxes) prefers a VAT, because it is a hidden tax and thus easy to raise. While the USA (which has a bias towards low taxes) prefers to implement retail sales taxes, because it is a highly visible tax and thus difficult to raise.

I hope this makes the difference between a VAT and a retail sales tax clear. They are very different animals.

The Herman Cain 9-9-9 plan implements a retail sales tax. In no way, shape, or form does it implement a VAT.


48 posted on 10/16/2011 7:30:48 PM PDT by Brookhaven (999 Tax Calculator: http://goo.gl/AHsjH)
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To: sklar

One question for you. Before you conclude that your parents will be paying more under 9-9-9 due to the national sales tax, have you calculated the percentage by which those goods have gone up, say, under the Obama administration? If not, I would do that before reaching such a conclusion. Chances are Obama’s destruction of the economy has added more than 9% to the price of the necessities that your parents have been buying. Therefore, it’s reasonable to think that if the economy can be restored to health by the stability and predictability offered by Cain’s plan, and costs and prices come down accordingly, then at worst they’ll be paying about what they paid under Bush. I tend to think they’ll do better than that, because costs under Bush were still fluctuating in the uncertain and ever-fluid environment of the ridiculous current tax code.


49 posted on 10/16/2011 7:32:40 PM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: TigersEye
Thanks, Tiger for your civil response.

I've seen people here saying, "I'm voting for Cain, even though 9-9-9 has no chance of passing." If Cain were to get nominated and then elected based on his FAMOUS SIGNATURE 9-9-9 Tax Replacement Plan, and then he can't get it done, can't get it passed, and 4 years from now, we still have the same old IRS, etc. what do you feel would be the response of Americans who voted for him?

50 posted on 10/16/2011 7:33:02 PM PDT by sklar
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