Posted on 10/20/2011 7:50:01 AM PDT by julieee
I just ran across this very powerful video about abortion.
It uses a song form Michael Card entitled The Spirit of the Age.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT8OPGrTg-c
I thought about that, but I was making a political statement. A pro-life personal statement would argue that the baby is a blessing, something good to come out of a bad situation.
But politically, you wouldn’t try that, because then you give opponents the opening that you suggested something good could come of rape, and worse, that you might be saying that rape victims would all be better off if they got pregnant so they got something good out of it.
We had a local pro-life legislator (my state rep. Delegate Bob Marshall, author of Virginia’s pro-marriage amendment) get raked over the coals over a similar type of misconstrued statement that made it sound like he was claiming that birth defects were God’s punishment for a woman getting an abortion.
So, I tried to couch it in more acceptable political terms. By claiming the baby is a victim (because the baby is biologically connected to a rapist, and therefore it will be hard for the baby’s own mother to love him/her, and the baby will grow up effectively fatherless), it makes the baby a sympathetic character, and leaves the mother to also claim victimhood while making her look cruel for trying to kill the “other victim” just to make herself feel better.
States cannot have laws that violate the Constitution. That is why abortion is not a states’ rights issue.
Could a state have a law allowing murder of already born humans? Would that be okay with you? Allowing murder up to age ten, or of the infirm, or any reason? If states can constitutionally allow abortion, then reason says that states can allow murder if they want.
Because abortion is murder, it is killing a human being.
That was ONE question. His answers to the next several questions cast grave doubt on your interpretation of his meaning. That’s why I have, in another post, given the remainder of the interview section, so people can see the entire transcript, not a partial one.
And if Cain had been active in the pro-life movement, he probably would have recognized the phrase “bring up that baby as her own” to be the phrase used when pro-abortionists are arguing to kill the baby.
And his “different” question comments could have been the switching from what you think that LAW should be, to what you would “honestly want her to bring up”.
And lastly, it’s clear he wasn’t answering THAT question exactly. Because after the argument over “mixing” up the issue, Cain’s answer to the question is “It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn’t have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue.”
But the question wasn’t about some hypothetical family. IT was about Cain’s OWN family. Cain didn’t answer THAT question. Why wouldn’t Cain have any say in the issue when it was his OWN family?
"MORGAN: But you've had children, grandchildren. If one of your female children, grand children was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own"
So the words were "bring up", not "keep". or "raise".
Actually, I found the link to the transcript and posted it to the other thread where this partial transcript was found, and I posted the rest of the transcript in that thread, and gave a detailed explanation as to why the interpretation you are accepting makes no sense in the context of the entire interview.
I also point out that his answer here is the same has the asnwer he gave to John Stossel three months ago, that Government has no say in the matter. Of course, in THAT interview he also said abortion should be illegal, so he was clear as mud there as well.
The one thing that seems obvious is that the Cain isn’t just talking about adoption here, because adoption is nothing anybody thinks government should be involved in, so it would make no sense for him to make any deal at all about government making that decision.
That's a very interesting departure --If you are correct, Peirs just claimed, and Cain agreed, that saying government should not dictate whether a woman should have to raise a baby or not is a DEPARTURE from the NORMAL politics.
CAIN: Yes.
MORGAN: -- from the normal politics.
CAIN: Exactly.
If he really believes THAT, he is an idiot. Because I can't think of a single pro-life politician who has EVER said that a woman should be forced to raise ANY child, much less the child conceived by rape or incest.
So if you think Cain was talking about raising the child, then it's odd he's suggesting other politicians would force the mother to raise the child.
But it is Cain, so who knows what he will say about this tomorrow. In the CNN interview, he had to talk about how he knew peace-loving muslims, and how he'd keep extremist christians out of his cabinet.
Morgan didn’t say “keep the baby as her own”, Morgan said “raise the baby as her own”, which I agree, is unambiguous. What was ambiguous, was the author of the article replacing Morgan’s unambiguous question with a paraphrase that substitutes “keep the baby” for “raise the baby as her own”.
The only conclusion I can draw is that the article’s author wants to intentionally mislead people into thinking Cain is saying he is pro-choice. Unfortunately, even some FReepers are falling for the ruse, and even more disturbingly, some seem to be intentionally perpetrating the fraud even though they surely know it is disingenuous.
Yes, I was referring to the article where they just removed the question altogether and phrased it themselves deceptively.
I’ll grant you that it seems Cain may have segued and tried to answer both of the things that Morgan was “mixing up”. Still, I’m not reading anything in the interview that tells me Cain is “pro-choice”, which is what people are trying to assert, and that’s what I’m taking issue with.
As for your point about the question being about Cain’s family, and then him talking about another family, that doesn’t prove anything to me. Maybe Cain didn’t want to let the questioning become personal, so he chose to put his answer in the context of a hypothetical. I’ve heard that done many times, so it wouldn’t be very unusual. Also, notice that Morgan asked about Cain’s daughter or granddaughter, not his wife. Even those those people are members of Cain’s family, he’s not their husband, so why would he have much say in their family decisions? People don’t normally go to “gramps” when they are deciding whether to have or keep a child.
Oops, indeed I made a mistake there. Still, I don’t think it makes any difference to my point. Bringing a baby up, and raising a baby are unambiguously synonymous, but keeping a baby is not.
In this case they distorted, whether deliberately or not. I’ll bash distorters when they distort. And it’s not the first time for LSN. They may have sincerely misread the transcript, but if so, they are incompetent. If they did this deliberately, they are worse than incompetent.
Cain is one of the few prolife candidates who opposes the rape and incest exception. That’s been known for a long time. That alone should have made Ertolt take a very careful look at the transcript because to claim that Cain is pro-choice on rape/incest is counterintuitive.
The "pro-choice-by-state" line is a well-worn move by Republicans who want to appear to support the pro-life movement, when in reality they know it won't save a single life.
Neither rape nor incest are capital crimes in America, so why would ANYONE believe that an innocent child deserves to die for a crime for which the child's father will only be jailed?
********************************
From what I have read, he is pro-life, but we shall see.
"If one of your female children, grandchildren was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own?" Morgan asked.
Cain said that Morgan was "mixing" questions, but then replied:
"No, it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. Secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that big a number. So what I'm saying is it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. Not me as president, not some politician, not a bureaucrat. It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn't have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue."
I don't know how he could make it any clearer then this.
"If one of your female children, grandchildren was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own?" Morgan asked.
Cain said that Morgan was "mixing" questions, but then replied:
"No, it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. Secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that big a number. So what I'm saying is it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. Not me as president, not some politician, not a bureaucrat. It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn't have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue."
I don't know how he could make it any clearer then this. I think people need to remember the 9th Commandment is not a suggestion. Bearing false witness is still a sin.
"If one of your female children, grandchildren was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own?" Morgan asked.
Cain said that Morgan was "mixing" questions, but then replied:
"No, it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. Secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that big a number. So what I'm saying is it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. Not me as president, not some politician, not a bureaucrat. It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn't have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue."
I don't know how he could make it any clearer then this. People around here who are emotionally tied to other candidates in the campaign need to keep in mind the 9th Commandment is not a suggestion.
Bearing false witness is still a sin.
"I believe that life begins at conception. And abortion under no circumstances," Cain said. Morgan asked Cain if that meant he felt the procedure was impermissible in cases of rape and incest, which many anti-abortion activists and conservatives carve out exceptions for. Cain reiterated that there were "no circumstances" under which he supported abortion.
"If one of your female children, grandchildren was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own?" Morgan asked.
Cain said that Morgan was "mixing" questions, but then replied:
"No, it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. Secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that big a number. So what I'm saying is it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. Not me as president, not some politician, not a bureaucrat. It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn't have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue."
I don't know how he could make it any clearer then this. People around here who are emotionally tied to other candidates in the campaign need to keep in mind the 9th Commandment is not a suggestion.
Bearing false witness is still a sin.
"If one of your female children, grandchildren was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own?" Morgan asked.
Cain said that Morgan was "mixing" questions, but then replied:
"No, it comes down to it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. Secondly, if you look at the statistical incidents, you're not talking about that big a number. So what I'm saying is it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or that mother has to make. Not me as president, not some politician, not a bureaucrat. It gets down to that family. And whatever they decide, they decide. I shouldn't have to tell them what decision to make for such a sensitive issue."
I don't know how he could make it any clearer then this. People around here who are emotionally tied to other candidates in the campaign need to keep in mind the 9th Commandment is not a suggestion.
Bearing false witness is still a sin.
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