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Merkel: 50 pct haircut to cut Greek debt by 100 bln euros
Reuters ^
| 10/27/2011
| Reuters
Posted on 10/27/2011 10:09:01 AM PDT by risen_feenix
click here to read article
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To: risen_feenix
investors already had calculated this cut.
They were afraid of the 60% as it was not in their formulas.
The bondholders make a profit even at 10%.
either way the eu is screwed.
at some point soon the euro is going to drop via collapse or via inflation.
21
posted on
10/27/2011 12:15:46 PM PDT
by
longtermmemmory
(VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
To: Moltke
100 billion [...] How did they ever manage to burn through that much money? If 5 million people out of those 11 million don't work but draw $100K/yr in entitlements then this alone will cost the government 500 billion per year.
22
posted on
10/27/2011 12:16:58 PM PDT
by
Greysard
To: risen_feenix
Wake up if you think these “private” bondholders are actually, “private,” taking this “voluntary” cut.
This PHONEY debt deal jacked the “stability” fund over 100% to a trillion. DE_STABILIZES commodities... look at the price of oil today up close to 4.00 and approaching 100. Gold up also.
This is FREE govt. pension and benefit money with NO cutbacks for any of these govt.s. The worldwide flood of dollars + euros controlled by fascio-marxism will lead to it will be decreed that “all the world will be taxed.” The Chinese will not bite on phoney paper called “vehicles.” They have huge $ reserves already and want hard assets only.
To: risen_feenix
24
posted on
10/27/2011 12:33:50 PM PDT
by
Christian Engineer Mass
(25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
To: Fishface
"While it is true that they have repudiated half of Greeces debt, they also agreed to loan Greece $137 billion more euros.
It is a total wash. This is all a big PR game. Europe is doomed. A total collapse is coming. "
Oh, I agree. But during the past few weeks, there was also the news that our US debt-to-GDP ration was about 100%. The only safe western countries in the long run would be the net energy exporters (not our dollar).
The collapse will come, IMO, but not just yet. Watch the Fed and other signs of more inflationary moves ahead. And we know that Democrats are taxing spendthrifts, but look at our Republicans. They're screaming for semi-stealthy, taxinator candidates.
25
posted on
10/27/2011 1:08:43 PM PDT
by
familyop
("Dry land is not just our destination, it is our destiny!" --Deacon character, "Waterworld")
To: risen_feenix
"So debtors have to eat a 100 billion euro loss..."
You mean the creditors have to eat this loss. The debtors are the freeloading Greek govt and public who expect other people to pay for their reckless profligacy.
26
posted on
10/27/2011 1:10:13 PM PDT
by
Enchante
(Killing Al-Awlaki is the only kind of Obamacare I can support!!)
To: az_gila
"I presume a lot of those Bond Holders are pension funds. Is that correct? Will this cause another riot?"
I'm not a fund manager or advisor and don't know the proportions. But yes, some pension funds are there. The managers of those believe that there's safety in bonds--even bonds that are backed by mountains of debt. A rickety riot of my fellow, creaking Baby Boomers after the bond collapse ahead. Now that would be something. It would be sad. That's for sure. ...clouds of dust from us bags of bones on the horizon. ;-)
27
posted on
10/27/2011 1:15:34 PM PDT
by
familyop
("Dry land is not just our destination, it is our destiny!" --Deacon character, "Waterworld")
To: Anti-Bubba182
I think Spain and Italy are the two largest southern European countries as far as debt goes too.
28
posted on
10/27/2011 1:22:45 PM PDT
by
EEGator
To: risen_feenix
Well they had no choice unless they wanted a 100% haircut if Greece and the other two tumble. I’m certain it was presented as a means of “saving” half their investment they might otherwise loose.
Unless the southern countries get their acts together, which was the concern when they merged under the Ero in the first place, then this will keep repeating itself again and again. Leadership is pretty bad in most and an overall unconcern for their countries in the long term.
29
posted on
10/27/2011 1:34:50 PM PDT
by
caww
To: Enchante
The debtors are the freeloading Greek govt and public who expect other people to pay for their reckless profligacy. I agree...rather like those who borrowed money for homes here in the states who knew they did not have the means to pay the debt....and even still Obama seeks to bail them out of their responsibility while those who have maintained their morgages watch as their homes depreciate.
Greece, Spain and Italy are doing the same thing...waiting for the financial "saviors".
30
posted on
10/27/2011 1:39:20 PM PDT
by
caww
To: EEGator
I think so and Fitch down rated them recently.
The only way the Euro continues is if the Germans continue to pay for it. Why should they?
To: risen_feenix
Let me see if I understand this deal.
The banks will lose 50% of the money they invested into bonds to bail Greece out, and will borrow more money to cover their loss. Greece, having been forgiven 50% of their debt, will now be able to borrow more money to continue paying on their remaining debt, even though once this deal is approved they will technically be in default. To make a long story short, none of the problems have been solved, Europe is going to borrow more money, and all they've really done is kick the can further down the road.
And, only 402,0000 jobs were lost in the US this week.
About the only good news we saw today was the GDP rose to an annual rate of 2.4% a year. The question is, 2.4% from what? Stuff paid for with borrowed foreign dollars to cover unemployment benefits and "stimulus" jobs?
And based on all of this good news, the DOW shot up 300 points.
What am I missing?
32
posted on
10/27/2011 1:44:31 PM PDT
by
TwelveOfTwenty
(Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
To: ken5050; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; kabar
Also..it's NOT a haircut..because the remaining lesser debt hasn't been repaid, it's been "rolled over"..and they're giving Greece MORE $$. This nisjust smoke and mirrors on a continental scale, and no one is calling it for what it is.. Actually, to the Greek demonstraters/unions, they'll think they've won..the other side blinked first.. No, they will start another riot in Athens because these terms are "Draconian." Even surrender is not generous enough for those hooligans.
Come to think of it, we have hooligans here too....
To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
what would happen if the euro simply vanished?
imagine the fortunes and “empires” which would crumble.
It will not happen because too many rich and connected people are vested in keeping the euro alive....for now.
34
posted on
10/27/2011 1:55:34 PM PDT
by
longtermmemmory
(VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
35
posted on
10/27/2011 2:23:59 PM PDT
by
TheOldLady
(FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
To: risen_feenix
Plus the underlying problem hasn’t been addressed yet either. All this does is kick the can down the road.
36
posted on
10/27/2011 2:26:24 PM PDT
by
thatjoeguy
(Wind is just air, but pushier.)
To: risen_feenix
The taxpayers will pay the other 50% one way or another. They just won’t know that they are doing it.
37
posted on
10/27/2011 6:13:42 PM PDT
by
Revel
To: TwelveOfTwenty
As per the Government the GDP increased by 2.4 for the quarter, but realistically it will be adjusted down to .7 or .8 in a week or so. Add in real inflation and you have a minus GDP for the year. The 402,000 first time unemployment claims is fake and even at that level it is disastrous. It will be adjusted upward quietly in a week. The DOW rose 300 points because the casino willed it so. It was and hasn’t been based on a true reflection of reality for years. The 505 reduction of Greek debt as a positive measure to solve the PIIGS debt problem is absolute nonsense.
38
posted on
10/27/2011 6:16:54 PM PDT
by
RetiredTexasVet
(There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
To: risen_feenix
39
posted on
10/27/2011 6:24:08 PM PDT
by
Chode
(American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
To: risen_feenix
Bill Klintoon was good at significant haircuts.
40
posted on
10/27/2011 8:02:45 PM PDT
by
the OlLine Rebel
(Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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