How Doctors Die

Zocalo ^ | 11/30/2011 | Ken Murray

[BunnySlippers]

Bunp

[Gosh I love this neighborhood]

Expect to see more and more articles like this as Obamacare kicks in and we are all encouraged to forgo that bothersome end-of-life care to make the numbers look a little better.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[winodog]

Great advice. My mom and dad are 79 & 77.
Dads health is failing him. It would be easier if he made his wishes known & got his house in order, however he still behaves as if he will live another 20 years.
He “blew” his money during the boom years and I think that hurts his pride making him want to hang on and work harder to prove himself.
Not to mention how bad it must feel for a strong man to hit the wall and retire to the rocking chair instead of going, going going.

[winodog]

I should have mentioned his health was great untill about 6 months ago and he never stopped. All day long, working 24/7 at one thing or another. He was not retired, self employed for since he retired fighter pilot since he was about 42.

He had open heart and has been back in hospitol with infection and lung problems. Now he is at home with shingles. We have not talked, however I can tell he is not happy at all.

Maybe God is calling home.

[drierice]

Thank you and winodog for your kind support.

I didn’t want to post that personal story, but it may illustrate to someone how prompt doctors can be in deciding to end a patient’s life.

She had been in a coma a little less than a week. I had three frustrated doctors with me in a meeting room wringing their hands, like they were more concerned about her quality of life than I was. One asked me how long would I need to make a decision on her breathing tube. He threw out the suggestion - “two days?”

I told him “I’m not buying a car.” They didn’t like my answer, and I didn’t like their suggestion.

[jazzlite]

...”Expect to see more and more articles like this as Obamacare kicks in and we are all encouraged to forgo that bothersome end-of-life care to make the numbers look a little better”...

You voice my own thoughts..This is an ad for the government to pick and choose life and death for everyone..Given full reign, (and I know saying this is a “No-no) it ends with a holocaust of some kind. How better to get rid of one’s political enemies than to cover it all up under “healthcare.” Many people choose not to go through heroic measures to sustain their lives if the situation seems hopeless. I do think some empathy should be in place when the very aged are in dire health conditions..In those cases, where only a short time is left, that time should not be spent suffering with tubes, etc., and having the person nearly comatose in the hospital, not able to communicate with family or friends. We have a situation in our family right now of a 92 year old who is in the care of his loving daughter, his wife and Hospice in his daughter’s home..They are with him as he takes his journey to eternity and he is at peace. This decision was made by the family, not a government death panel and that is how it should be. Most families will come to the decision that they do not want their loved one to suffer needlessly, regardless of the age.

[goat granny]

My father also went to the funeral parlor he wanted to use, picked out his casket and paid for everything before he passed.....He died at 86 and had lived a long and fruitful life and was not afraid to die...He hated to be debilitated in any way...he was still living in an apartment and got a 2 bedroom apartment when I asked him why he wanted a 2 bedroom he said in case his health gets bad and he can hired someone to take care of him....he had all bases covered..Instead of a will, his money he got from selling the house on Mullet lake and the house in Detroit, he split amongst his 4 kids in individual savings accounts in each kids name but he kept the bank books until he passed. He had used a couple of different banks and all we had to do was take the savings books and close out the account...

For your fathers and my father generation the last thing they wanted was feel weak and useless. I say let him do as he wants even if he chooses to do something you think is silly at their ages...

But if there is a estate I would encourage him to make a will, revocable trust and Medical Power of Attorney...For that you need to find a good lawyer that works only in the area of estates and probate...just choose a time you think he will be open to the suggestion..

If he is not open to such a suggestion,you could explain that if he passed before his wife, she might have a hard time understanding and doing what would be required of her to do.......good luck and God Bless

[vanilla swirl]

My first wife was married to a doctor and she was a hospital photographer for several years so she has some insight. Doctors sometimes have a “god-complex” thinking themselves as heroes that must not make a mistake. They hold the power of life and death (they think) and must not lose one patient.
Sometimes they think that they know better than us little people what is best for us.

I think the important thing here is to take charge of your own health. Make our own decisions and not expecting “Dr. Oz” to fix everything (they can’t).

Modern medicine “treats” illnesses many times rather than “fixing” the issue. This is directly opposite of how we address “fixing the car”. What if you took your car to a mechanic and instead of fixing a burned out muffler he handed you a pair of earplugs? Doctors need to be honest and say “I can’t fix that”.

My mother had a heart attack in her ‘80’s, had 5 bypasses and then lived about 10 more years. After surgery I thought she never was quite “right”. Her last 2 or 3 years saw her mind degrade in a series of strokes. She didn’t recognize me the last time I saw her. Do I wish she didn’t have the bypasses? No! But it does give you something to think about.

(Is this article future propaganda hoping we will all die off instead of being a burden to the “state”?............um...maybe)

[kitkat]

http://www.nrlc.org/euthanasia/willtolive/index.html

To prevent unnecessary surgery which will only keep you alive longer, but not help your condition, and to avoid being given too much pain killer with the intent to kill you, see the above link.

[HiTech RedNeck]

The “Torch” treatment story sounds like a no-brainer, pardon the unintentional pun. An agonizing treatment from which four months are expected, vs. a mild palliative from which eight months are expected then an easy death... what would anybody pick? I could see if the person wanted to offer himself to science or some such heroic deed, for the sake of trying to improve the miserable treatment through experimenting with variations until it eventually beat the palliative treatment or stumbled into a cure. But most who offer themselves to science do it posthumously, thank you very much.

[winodog]

Thank you, he has taken care of the will and trust. The other stuff amounts to very little and those seem to be the things that he holds on to so much like closing his business/hobby that runs in the red.

And your words ring true “I say let him do as he wants even if he chooses to do something you think is silly at their ages...”

I feel the same way and I preach that.

[surroundedbyblue]

Based in my experience of 14 years of nursing, this is BS propoganda. I’ve known many nurses & physicians who have become I’ll & died over the years. All entered the healthcare industry as consumers just like any other patient.

This is a propaganda piece for the “duty-to-die” crowd that wants to convince the public not to consume expensive treatments.

[rlmorel]

This BS article is somebody’s opinion. What he says he has seen, accounts from people he has talked to. The author makes SWEEPING generalizations based on HIS experience.

It is an opinion piece, that is all.

[SkyPilot]

Wow.

[Notwithstanding]

The author takes a few anecdotes and kernels of truth and turns them into a sweeping argument for denying and rationing even basic health care.

Sounds like his first priority should be tort reform.

[Notwithstanding]

My mom was practically dead in the hospital with a heart attack and was revived several times over the course of days by CPR. We will be spending our third Christmas with her since then. She lives a full life and you’d never know she has serious heart disease.

The author takes a few anecdotes and kernels of truth and turns them into a sweeping argument for denying and rationing even basic health care.

Sounds like his first priority should be tort reform.

[EnquiringMind]

Wow, what an eye-opener for me.

[dawn53]

I’m not so sure. My FIL had advanced directives...no feeding tube, no ventilator. He contracted MRSA pneumonia after a surgery to repair his hip (he had fallen.) He was 93 years old, we had his wishes in writing along with a health care surrogacy document and almost everyday the physicians pushed for a feeding tube and ventilator. He had been transferred to a “specialty hospital” for folks with chronic problems (I believe you could substitue the word “terminal” conditions.) He was the only patient in the hospital that was not on a ventilator and did not have a feeding tube. One woman, whose husband was in the room across the hall, told us how she had been pressured into the ventilator and feeding tube after her husband suffered a massive stroke. And now, many months later, he was still in the same state, physicaly with no improvement and no response, but alive because of the machines.

Years ago I attended a seminar with Dr. Koop and Francis Schaeffer. I can distinctly remember Dr. Koop commenting on the advances in modern medicine and not starting extraordinary measures when someone is deemed terminal(I believe the discussion centered around Karen Ann Quinlan.)

[rlmorel]

Gee. Did anyone ELSE click on the link and go to the site that hosts the article?

Let's see...first off, Jerseyanexile, how about keeping the article title as it actually reads? I can see you haven't been around Free Republic all that long, but people frown on editing the title of articles. You should have it changed to reflect the actual one at the website: "How Doctors Die It’s Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be".

And the other articles at the site: "Who Needs Doctors, Anyway?" and "Will The Healthcare War Ever End?" which contains this revealing question: "How did an almost universally acknowledged good like healthcare become a source of such titanic strife? "

I am sure it was a slip, and what the author REALLY meant to say was "acknowledged good like UNIVERSAL FREE PUBLIC healthcare".

And just look at the sponsors of this website, "Zocalo":

Well, that is a Murderer's Row" of liberalism if there ever was one. If you don't believe me, and hey, why take my word?) just Google a few like "New America Foundation" and why even bother to Google "Department of Cultural Affairs, Los Angeles"...Gee, ya think there might be some federal grant dollars given to the Department of Cultural Affairs, Los Angeles which are turned right around and given to this "Zocalo" website?

Jerseyanexile, here is some advice: If you want to peddle Obamacare, Free Republic is not the place to do it.

[Notwithstanding]

BINGO!

All of my estate planning clients execute the NRLC “Will to Live”.

I include it at no cost.

I just guest lectured for a college medical ethics class about end of life issues and the Will to Live and rationing under Obamacare were topics I addressed.